Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 12:02:29 +0100 From: Bob Bishop <rb@gid.co.uk> To: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" <freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net>, Brooks Davis <brooks@freebsd.org>, FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>, Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org>, FreeBSD Net <freebsd-net@freebsd.org>, "Julian H. Stacey" <jhs@berklix.com>, Michelle Sullivan <michelle@sorbs.net>, "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" <freebsd-arch@freebsd.org>, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Message-ID: <9257C84A-CA7C-42B9-9AD8-89AE33C96356@gid.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <CANCZdforDVmD-yBZP5Xm2=CbeOU0PyDAMUrZK95_yGXBgWoKhw@mail.gmail.com> References: <20181023233716.GA15106@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <201810240002.w9O02tXg025019@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <CANCZdforDVmD-yBZP5Xm2=CbeOU0PyDAMUrZK95_yGXBgWoKhw@mail.gmail.com>
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> On 24 Oct 2018, at 01:23, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote: >=20 > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 6:02 PM Rodney W. Grimes < > freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: >=20 >> -- Start of PGP signed section. >>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 04:26:45PM -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >>>>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 5:07 PM Rodney W. Grimes < >>>>> freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 11:33:35PM +0200, Julian H. Stacey = wrote: >>>>>>>>> I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, >> wb, sn, >>>>>> smc, >>>>>>>>> sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this >>>>>> thread, and >>>>>>>>> which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age >> today. >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> vr is used by my TV driver laptop: >>>>>>>> http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/hardware/laptops/novatech-8355/ >>>>>>>> vr0: flags=3D8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> = metric >> 0 mtu >>>>>> 1500 >>>>>>>> options=3D82808<VLAN_MTU,WOL_UCAST,WOL_MAGIC,LINKSTATE> >>>>>>>> ether 00:40:d0:5e:26:38 >>>>>>>> inet 192.168.91.65 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast >> 192.168.91.255 >>>>>>>> media: Ethernet autoselect (100baseTX >>>>>> <full-duplex,flowcontrol,rxpause,txpause>) >>>>>>>> status: active >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Which currently runs 8.4-RELEASE & eg xrandr, but I'll upgrade >> soon >>>>>>>> when I also configure it to receive from a raspberry-pi TV VPN >> server. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> The above was a typo. vr is on the the STAY list. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> -- Brooks >>>>>> Brooks, >>>>>> Is there a public revised version of FCP-0101 that >> reflects the >>>>>> feedback which is what core is voting on? >>>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Its on github, just like it's been the whole time for anybody to = see, >>>>> submit pull requests against and track: >>>>=20 >>>> I have no gh account, desires no gh account, so have no way to >>>> submit a change request other than through direct email to >>>> brooks or another gh user. This is fundementally flawed. >>>>=20 >>>>> https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md >>>>=20 >>>> Thank you for the link, I had looked at it before MeetBSD, >>>> which did not have most of the recent changes done "a day ago". >>>>=20 >>>> Isnt this document now in a frozen state while core reviews/votes? >>>=20 >>> I sent it to a vote at c224c67557297d7cba909ad008542cb60980cc6b only >>> to notice a bug in table rendering. I submitted a pull request fix >>> that and a missing word which was merged since neither was material. = I >>> suppose they could have waited or been skipped, but there's no value = in >>> the FCP process being bound by the sort of pointless rigidity that = led >>> to -DPOSIX_MISTAKE in every libc compile line. >>=20 >> The FCP process itself is unclear on this point, >> I think this should be clarified. >>=20 >> It is much more clear on post approval: >> Changes after acceptance >>=20 >> FCPs may need revision after they have been moved into the >> accepted state. In such cases, the author SHOULD update the >> FCP to reflect the final conclusions. >> If the changes are major, the FCP SHOULD be withdrawn >> and restarted. >>=20 >=20 > Good point Rod. While common sense suggests that trivial changes = during the > voting should be allowed for editorial purposes (eg fix grammar = mistakes, > table rendering etc), it's better to spell that out so there's no = confusion. >=20 > diff --git a/fcp-0000.md b/fcp-0000.md > index b4fe0f3..c8cc6f7 100644 > --- a/fcp-0000.md > +++ b/fcp-0000.md > @@ -144,7 +144,10 @@ When the discussion of a change has come to a = suitable > and acceptable close it > SHOULD be updated to the `vote` state. >=20 > At this time the FreeBSD Core Team will vote on the subject of the = FCP. The > -result of vote moves the FCP into the `accepted` or `rejected` state. > +result of vote moves the FCP into the `accepted` or `rejected` state. = The > +core team MAY make minor edits to the FCP to correct minor mistakes. = Core > +MAY return the proposal to the submitter if there are major problems = that > +need to be addressed. This is a Bad Idea, because it relies on common understanding of what is = minor. I was once involved with a standards body that had a procedure = for so-called clerical errors intended to deal with typos, punctuation = etc; this worked just fine until somebody claimed that the omission of = the word =E2=80=9Cnot=E2=80=9D in a particular place was clearly a = clerical error. > FCPs in the `accepted` state can be updated and corrected. > See the "Changes after acceptance" section for more information. >=20 > Normally I'd submit that as a pull request, but since I know you don't = use > github, I thought I'd present it here to see if this answers your = concerns > before doing so. >=20 > Warner > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >=20 -- Bob Bishop rb@gid.co.uk
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