From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Aug 22 20:08:43 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 228D71094781 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 20:08:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from bucksport.safeport.com (bucksport.safeport.com [198.74.231.101]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9619895F7 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 20:08:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from bucksport.safeport.com (bucksport.safeport.com [198.74.231.101]) by bucksport.safeport.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w7MJoYsv069024; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 15:50:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 15:50:34 -0400 (EDT) From: DTD To: Polytropon cc: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stable vs releng In-Reply-To: <20180822210021.80650aa0.freebsd@edvax.de> Message-ID: References: <010327df-876b-dc05-e9ed-130f3e8decb0@ifdnrg.com> <20180822154439.e388b74673a183639554ff5e@sohara.org> <20180822210021.80650aa0.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (bucksport.safeport.com [198.74.231.101]); Wed, 22 Aug 2018 15:50:34 -0400 (EDT) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 20:08:43 -0000 On Wed, 22 Aug 2018, Polytropon wrote: > On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 13:38:02 -0400 (EDT), doug wrote: >> On Wed, 22 Aug 2018, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 09:52:36 +0100 >>> Matthew Seaman wrote: >>> >>>> So no removal of drivers, no >>>> changes to ABIs, compatibility for 3rd party kernel modules across all >>>> the kernels in the branch etc. Some of that I think we're getting >>>> right, other bits we aren't doing so well with. >>> >>> nVidia >>> >> I do not understand. If the FreeBSD Desktop support model is a two story >> outhouse, XORG has always been on the top floor. At least that was my >> understanding. What am I missing? > > I think the main problem here is the switch from the > normal text-oriented console subsystem sc to the > graphics-oriented vt, which of course means more > demands regarding "addressing the GPU". Additionally, > X currently requires (!) the use of vt. So while X > brings its own drivers, the OS now also needs to > include certain aspects of "programming toward > hardware". > > According to the vt page, there needs to be support > for different brands of graphics cards: > > https://wiki.freebsd.org/Newcons > > Sure, this is completely out of concern if you just > want to use the regular text mode - you switch back > to sc (as vt has become the default), and everything > works as it did for decades. But you cannot use X in > that configuration anymore. That's why development > on vt is ongoing, but not complete yet. But it is > already more than "good enough" to be included as > the default console subsystem, as it works in 99 % > of the typical use cases. > > While you can switch screen sizes in vt (except to > the one you want), it lacks certain features that > did exist in sc reliably for many years. But when > you use X, those are typically not needed, and X > requires vt, so... those features won't come back. > "Just use X!" is what solves any problems. ;-) Indeed, I totally overlooked that. Thanks guys. I have just accepted what the console does to me. The servers that really matter I get to via serial console. _____ Douglas Denault http://www.safeport.com doug@safeport.com Voice: 301-217-9220 Fax: 301-217-9277