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Date:      Thu, 20 Sep 2001 02:06:22 -0500
From:      Rob Andrews <rob@cyberpunkz.org>
To:        Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm@toybox.placo.com>
Cc:        Rob Andrews <rob@cyberpunkz.org>, Matthew Graybosch <matthew@starbreaker.net>, Stanley Hopcroft <Stanley.Hopcroft@IPAustralia.gov.au>, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: How does FreeBSD make a difference in a government context ?
Message-ID:  <20010920020622.C41586@switchblade.cyberpunkz.org>
In-Reply-To: <009e01c1419b$9b772e60$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>; from tedm@toybox.placo.com on Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 11:15:12PM -0700
References:  <20010919220311.F54888@switchblade.cyberpunkz.org> <009e01c1419b$9b772e60$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>

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On Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 11:15:12PM -0700, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> Let me offer my $0.02 here on this.  It's kind of long, but I think that =
most
> people will enjoy this, and there's a lot of truth to it, even though it =
may
> be insulting to a few people.

Ted,

While I agree with most of this I do have to point out that it is far more
involved than this process you've hashed over here..  I mean the ideals are
sound but the structure when it comes to government and larger corperations
is just not this simple to break down and attempt to change because of vast
policies these companies put in place to prevent any sort of radical changes
that aren't part of the company program.

I take for example the fairly recent Xcel Energy handover of their IT dept.
to IBM Global Services.  (Keep in mind - this is just a corperation and
not the government which is where this original thread is stemmed from)

Let me break this down for you short and sweet.

You can drop all the figures and all the cost factors and security pros and
cons on the table to these folks and the fact remains fairly simple.

Many of the larger corperations (Let's take for example Xcel Energy here
in the Twin Cities) have taken on the outsource happy trigger finger. In
order to streamline operations IBM was brought into Xcel to take over the
entire IT department and set standards and network policy for how things
are to be done by the remaining Xcel employees in the parts of the IT=20
department that we not under direct supervision of IBM.

These companies look at the support and cost factor of having to deal with
these issues and to them, the cost factor isn't nearly as important as the
support factors.  And the government is even less likely to care about the
cost factors of these things if they can get a good support contract to
go along with the hardware and software they are using.  I mean they are not
in the business of providing network services to the general public.  So
their point of view is far more reserved than a normal corperation.

Point still:  You can present it and say "I can't get tech support.. etc.
etc. etc."  And the fact is that most companies have become dependant
on services or have contracts they pay thousands of dollars a month for,
and they simply are not going to change something over if they can get
the task accomplished within the resources available to them that they
are already paying for.

Not to pick on you or even insult your arguement.  But its not realistic
in most cases..  "We pay how much a year for support?  We'll get the=20
support we're paying for else the company supporting it will answer to
a breech of contract..  blah blah"  and so on and so forth and so many
different ways it can come out.

In some cases you might get lucky to get a manager to look at what you
are doing and see the vast improvements.  But then comes the system of
network freezes and proper times in which something could be implimented
and tested and so on..  A process that could take years instead of when
it was needed most.  And by that time someone has come along with a=20
commericialized solution that they will support via yet another contract
with the provider our an outsource agent of some sort.

I've watched this in IBM, Cray/SGI, several ISP's, a medical intranet
company and so on.  Its the same from one company to the next.  I've
just basically grown tired of trying to support the freeware software
in the commerical workspace because there are so many issues to overcome
that it becomes more stress than just calling "Tech support" and getting
the help our contracts are good for and finishing the task at hand by
company spec.  Not to mention feeling I've just wasted how many hours
of my time trying to do something I felt could improve something we
needed done virutally overnight.

I can appreciate your insight however and do so wish that more companies
beyond just ISP's and small business would concider these freeware software
options to be a better idea.  The reality will continue to be however that
its a process that would take years.  Not weeks or even months in most
cases.  And especially with the government.  When it comes to IT the
governments are very prone to be strict about what they will and won't use
due to policy and laws and so on that they must lay out well in advance to
any major changes.  The history of Cray Research makes for interesting
conversation on this very subject.  Another time however.. :)

Cheers...

--=20
Rob Andrews
Administrator
Cyberpunk Alliance
http://www.cyberpunkz.org/
Minneapolis, MN

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