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Date:      Mon, 17 Nov 2014 04:02:38 -0700
From:      Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
To:        Craig Rodrigues <rodrigc@FreeBSD.org>
Cc:        FreeBSD Net <freebsd-net@freebsd.org>, "freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org" <freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org>, freebsd-arch <freebsd-arch@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: RFC: Enabling VIMAGE in GENERIC
Message-ID:  <1423616F-F44D-47E5-8595-DE862DC04464@bsdimp.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAG=rPVccq7R5+cbm6nR1WCZDM=-xwwkmF=cw8PCuk58oHPA-gQ@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <CAG=rPVccq7R5+cbm6nR1WCZDM=-xwwkmF=cw8PCuk58oHPA-gQ@mail.gmail.com>

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On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:46 AM, Craig Rodrigues <rodrigc@FreeBSD.org> =
wrote:

> Hi,
>=20
> PROPOSAL
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> I would like to get feedback on the following proposal.
> In the head branch (CURRENT), I would like to enable
> VIMAGE with this commit:
>=20
>=20
> PATCH
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=20
> Index: sys/conf/NOTES
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> --- sys/conf/NOTES      (revision 274300)
> +++ sys/conf/NOTES      (working copy)
> @@ -784,8 +784,8 @@
> device         mn      # Munich32x/Falc54 Nx64kbit/sec cards.
>=20
> # Network stack virtualization.
> -#options       VIMAGE
> -#options       VNET_DEBUG      # debug for VIMAGE
> +options        VIMAGE
> +options        VNET_DEBUG      # debug for VIMAGE
>=20
> #
> # Network interfaces:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I would like to enable VIMAGE for the following reasons:
>=20
> REASONS
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=20
> (1)  VIMAGE cannot be enabled off to the side in a separate library or
>       kernel module.  When enabled, it is a kernel ABI incompatible =
change.
>       This has impact on 3rd party code such as the kernel modules
>       which come with VirtualBox.
>       So the time to do it in CURRENT is now, otherwise we can't =
consider
>       doing it until FreeBSD-12 timeframe, which is quite a while =
away.
>=20
> (2)  VIMAGE is used in some  3rd party products, such as FreeNAS.
>       These 3rd party products are mostly happy with VIMAGE,
>       but sometimes they encounter problems, and FreeBSD doesn't
>       see these problems because it is disabled by default.
>=20
> (3)  Most of the major subsystems like ipfw and pf have been fixed for
> VIMAGE, and the only
>       way to shake out the last few issues is to make it the default =
and
>       get feedback from the community.  ipfilter still needs to be
> VIMAGE-ified.
>=20
>=20
> (4)  Not everyone uses bhyve.  FreeBSD jails are an excellent =
virtualization
>       platform for FreeBSD.  Jails are still very popular and
>       performant.  VIMAGE makes jails even better by allowing per-jail
>       network stacks.
>=20
> (5)  Olivier Cochard-Labbe has provided good network performance =
results
>       in VIMAGE vs. non-VIMAGE kernels:
>=20
>=20
> =
https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-net/2014-October/040091.html
>=20
> (6)  Certain people like Vitaly "wishmaster" <artemrts@ukr.net> have =
been
>      running VIMAGE
>      jails in a production environment for quite a while, and would =
like
> to see it
>      be the default.
>=20
>=20
> ACTION PLAN
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=20
> (1)  Coordinate/communicate with portmgr, since this has kernel ABI
> implications
>=20
> (2)  Work with clusteradm@, and try to get a test instance of one of =
the
>       PF firewalls in the cluster working with a VIMAGE enabled =
kernel.
>=20
> (3)   Take a pass through http://wiki.freebsd.org/VIMAGE/TODO
>        and
> =
https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=3Dvimage%20or%20=
vnet
>         and try to clean things up.  Get help from net@ developers to =
do
> this.

And if these don=92t get cleaned up?

> (4)   Take a pass on trying to VIMAGE-ify ipfilter.  I'll need help =
from
>        the ipfilter maintainers for this and some net@ developers.

And if this doesn=92t happen?

> (5)   Enable VIMAGE by default in CURRENT on January 5, 2015.
>        This will *not* be enabled in STABLE.
>=20
> What do people think?

How do you plan to address the problems seen by FreeNAS in #2 above? I =
don=92t see that in the action plan. Without it, we=92re enabling an =
option that has know, serious issue making 11 potentially a more =
unstable release.

Warner

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