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Date:      Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:57:47 -0400
From:      Bill Moran <wmoran@potentialtech.com>
To:        "Hartmann, O." <ohartman@klima.physik.uni-mainz.de>
Cc:        freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: NFS server not respnding!
Message-ID:  <3DA5A37B.3000706@potentialtech.com>
References:  <20021010163107.P68233-100000@klima.physik.uni-mainz.de>

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[I'm taking this off -stable because it really doesn't belong there]

Hartmann, O. wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Bill Moran wrote:
> 
> Hello Bill.
> 
> :>Hartmann, O. wrote:
> :>> Dear Sirs.
> :>>
> :>> Using FreeBSD 4.6.2-pl2 and FreeBSD 4.7-RC2 on our server system (one 4.7-RC
> :>> experimental system) and utilizing AMD for mounting home space and other
> :>> services via TCP protocol results in
> :>>
> :>> nfs server 134.93.180.216:/usr/homes: not responding
> :>> nfs server 134.93.180.216:/usr/homes: is alive again
> :>>
> :>> very often, when load of the appropriate client is very high. That happens
> :>> when on our number crunching systems utilization of CPU time is high or
> :>> many users try copy from and to via SAMBA to the main NFS server system.
> :>
> :>Yup.  Happens because either the server or the network is swamped and some
> :>NFS packets are not being responded to as quickly as the client expects.
> :>
> :>Other than being annoying, it's not really a major problem.
> 
> Well, it seems to _be_ a major problem due to breaking copy actions from
> Windows clients over SAMBA when NFS server is not respondig.

I wasn't aware that this was causing actual problems (I guess I should read
more carefully)

> I still __use__ TCP for the NFS connections, especially for all AMD mounts.
> Since tcp has been choosen as the main protocoll, those problems occur.
> I think something has to be changed to make all clients waiting a little bit
> for the server.

Yes, search the archives.  There are knobs you can tweak.

> The only real tweak would be to swap over to GigaBit LAN
> within our server system room to avoid the traffice bottleneck between
> the serving systems (we have a really misconfigured network and it makes
> it really hard to deal with a suitable topology - at the moment all traffic
> goes twice through our FreeBSD/PicoBSD filtering bridge).

Err ... I would fix the underlying network problems pronto.  Anything you do
to try to work around them is just going to make things worse.
Take my advise on this, I have personal experience.  I worked for a place a
year ago that was working with a flakey wireless WAN.  The wireless guy
couldn't get the connection reliable (wildly varying ping times and 5%
average packet loss) and I was expected to use FreeBSD to "make up" for
these failures.
To FreeBSD's (and the rest of the open-source workforce) credit, I was
able to do a lot toward hiding the wireless problems, with a combination
of VPN compression and a number of scripts that raised/lowered interfaces
when things failed, as well as a other screwball tricks.
BUT, the network config became unbelievably complex and difficult to
maintain, and I was unable to ever get rid of the problems entirely.
Obviously, the correct solution was to fix the wireless problems, but that
would have cost $$$ (never mind the fact that they paid me tons to constantly
play around with the routers)

> 
> Thanks.
> :>
> :>> This happens under heavy load and, when only a few users are on the systems,
> :>> but it happens very often while
> :>>
> :>> - copying big files/datas from PC systems via SAMBA
> :>> - whenever a number crunching job runs on a different server
> :>>   and on another server a job for copying data has been started,
> :>>   the influences to a completely different system, in this case the main
> :>>   NFS server, is significant.
> :>>
> :>> FreeBSD offers a lot of kernel stuff tunig the system's performance,
> :>> especially for NFS etc (also sysctl changeable kernel varibales).
> :>> Can anyone help with tuned parameters or give hints how to
> :>> investigate problems?
> :>
> :>Search the mailing list archives.  This was discussed some months back,
> :>and someone provided info on which knobs to tweak to make the messages
> :>go away, along with the possible pitfalls of tweaking those knobs.
> :>
> :>> What's about the fact running AMD/NFS over TCP instead of UDP? UDP
> :>> seems to give the benefit of speed, while TCP seems to be more
> :>> reliable and secure from the point of view from the network.
> :>
> :>I don't think switching to TCP will stop this.  To my knowledge, TCP
> :>connections only improve reliability over sketchy connections (such
> :>as WANs)  My experience with NFS/TCP has been that it doesn't really
> :>improve reliability that much either (although we were dealing with
> :>an _extremely_ flakey wireless WAN - nothing was reliable)
> :>
> :>--
> :>Bill Moran
> :>Potential Technologies
> :>http://www.potentialtech.com
> :>
> :>
> 
> --
> MfG
> O. Hartmann
> 
> ohartman@klima.physik.uni-mainz.de
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> 
> 



-- 
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com


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