From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 30 22:11:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6405D16A4CE for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:11:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.nativenerds.com (host-12-49-220-24.midco.net [24.220.49.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3AD843D1D for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:11:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from estover@nativenerds.com) Received: from [192.168.1.189] ([192.168.1.189]) by www.nativenerds.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2V65ECc098634; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:05:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from estover@nativenerds.com) From: Ed Stover To: John Von Essen , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20040330110035.T3001@beck.quonix.net> References: <002f01c4165c$a0c0d1d0$6f01a8c0@miter.local> <40697A82.2070402@sitetronics.com> <1080661480.4341.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040330110035.T3001@beck.quonix.net> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Native Nerds Message-Id: <1080713449.14130.11.camel@Macinlinuz> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5a) Date: 30 Mar 2004 23:10:49 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: The Website X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: estover@nativenerds.com List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:11:04 -0000 You can get them to run FreeBSD on every server inhouse, all you have to do is ; 1> Show them all the advantages FreeBSD has to offer 2> Show them the money that could be saved 3> Let the management think that the conversion was there idea 4> Allow management the take all the credit when you have stable servers. On Tue, 2004-03-30 at 09:08, John Von Essen wrote: > Bam.... > > You just hit it with the Linux note. If I propose to use FreeBSD on our > production web pool, I'll get shot down. > > However, I can easily convince management to convert to Linux!!! In their > minds linux is more mature and stable then this FreeBSD thing that they > never heard of. > > Its sad but true... I dont think a new .com site will change everything, > but it would definitely help. As for volunteering, web design aint my > thing. But, it might help if the core team opened up the possibility of a > new .com site in a more formal manner. I mean, more then just saying, go > make a site, show it to us, and then we'll think about it. > > -john > > On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, dereck wrote: > > > John, > > 1. I agree with you that it is hard to get management to accept FreeBSD > > - perception is poor, though I'm not quite sure why. > > > > 2. I disagree that the website is to blame. I think it could use work, > > but as far as OSS software goes, it is pretty solid. (The search sucks, > > though :-) .) However, if you can do an alternative one there will be > > ways to get the people to use it. I for one encourage you to work on an > > alternative if you have time. > > > > 3. You management uses Solaris (!) - count your blessings. It could be > > FAR FAR worse!!! From my experience with [shall remain unnamed] *NIXES > > I'd rather deal with Solaris than any others apart from *BSD. But if > > your management moves to Linux, get another job :-). > > > > best, > > dereck > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2004-03-30 at 10:26, John Von Essen wrote: > > > This is an interesting point. Alot of big companies use FreeBSD, but under > > > the following conditions: > > > > > > 1. The lead/senior sysadmins are old FreeBSD guru's > > > 2. The systems that have FreeBSD installed are low-profile and can't be > > > easily spotted (audited). > > > 3. Management has loose control over their employees > > > > > > I am working for a large insurance company right now. Because, I love > > > FreeBSD, I have made an attempt to "slip" FreeBSD into the network - on > > > some backend mail servers, intranet web servers, etc.,. However, I still > > > have no chance of getting FreeBSD into, say, our production web server > > > pool. Management is brain-washed and all they know is Solaris, Solaris, > > > Solaris, IBM, IBM, IBM. > > > > > > And... It doesn't help when they go to freebsd.org. It makes FreeBSD seem > > > NON-enterprise. Personally, i think the site is fine, but Im a tech, not > > > a CTO. Maybe, freebsd.com can be redesigned have a suse.com or redhat.com > > > look-n-feel, and freebsd.org can retain - the developer community > > > look-n-feel. > > > > > > -john > > > > > > On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > > > > > > > Paul Robinson wrote: > > > > > > > > > [snip; poor formatting] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, this is the problem FreeBSD generally has. A lot of people would > > > > > actually like to see more developers move to FreeBSD and contribute to > > > > > the project. It then follows that as the "product" improves, we are able > > > > > to see a rise in the number of users. Pedantic, yes, but I'm becoming > > > > > less convinced of the need for us to get FreeBSD onto the family PC. I > > > > > would like to see it on a lot more developer's desks though. > > > > > > > > And in more companies. FreeBSD is already used by many (large) companies > > > > (including those in the Fortune 500). I know that even MS uses FreeBSD > > > > for the SFU software. > > > > > > > > > [snip; poor formatting] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Won't you expect the competition's product to be a better alternative to > > > > > the one you currently use? Do you honestly believe that OS choice is > > > > > dependent on what the website looks like? If so, how did Mandrake ever > > > > > take off? > > > > > > > > I have to agree here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > [snip; poor formatting] > > > > >> the moment it looks like a three column url listing with no > > > > >> really strong visual cues to things important to capturing, > > > > >> converting, and supporting new users. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, you know what the answer is then, don't you? You can grab the > > > > > source, talk to the web team, produce a better version. Remember it has > > > > > to be readable in text browsers, conform to WAI and Internationalisation > > > > > standards and everyone has to agree by mutual consent it's a better > > > > > design than the existing one. > > > > > > > > AMEN. This is a bikeshed that gets discussed every 6 or so months. > > > > Search advocacy@, doc@ and any number of other mailing lists for the > > > > amount of complaints about the webpage. As per the suggestion always > > > > posted that the FreeBSD page is too ``simple,'' my answer remains: > > > > > > > > http://www.google.com > > > > http://www.sun.com > > > > > > > > Simple, huh? > > > > > > > > As I stated on your other thread regarding the post on the ZDNet.au > > > > site; if you can't put up, shut up. I say that in a coarse manner not to > > > > be obtuse, but to discourage you and others from continuing with a > > > > bikeshed that nobody seems to care to fix. If you want to make a new > > > > site for FreeBSD, make a template, see what you can do, but don't expect > > > > it to be used. > > > > > > > > > [snip] > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > > > Devon H. O'Dell > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"