From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 14 06:08:37 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C3923575BC for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2020 06:08:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c20003e8d12a.a464af111352ef3326518e94d3e7d53b@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B5VSh34JSz4YHD for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2020 06:08:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c20003e8d12a.a464af111352ef3326518e94d3e7d53b@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1594706916; x=1597298916; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=u6yMmw/QJt33OZ4wX4LoIumJxUi/La6I6Gt1IMyzyO4=; b=AHAuvHdxl6m0C0Sr1MOd+ERh7YVdwPbTabxns69vpYJ94hb4AOeD3VfUt/TMcEsSoxNHXYAAWiw7L4q38/A8xyIZ9AWvzH2AycqC6gdMgd/aRdS7IWmGEheknhYXgWS8sHxNj4BngdWt45xI8opGL3iUGuZ8ghlW4GRiFkcDYsA= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjMjAwMDNlOGQxMmEuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r3.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r3.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.191.3]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 14 Jul 2020 02:08:34 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r3.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 14 Jul 2020 02:08:32 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.92.3 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1jvE7D-0003KS-9N; Tue, 14 Jul 2020 07:08:31 +0100 Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 07:08:31 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: Aryeh Friedman Cc: Don Wilde , Brandon helsley , FreeBSD Mailing List Subject: Re: Petite Cloud, CBSD, Intellij Message-Id: <20200714070831.f01a144e1dc808ebea421afe@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: References: <5a761348-fb9f-5cf3-e035-7ba42afcb221@gmail.com> <8fcd60d7-1de1-82dc-d840-2555663ac153@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4B5VSh34JSz4YHD X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=AHAuvHdx; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c20003e8d12a.a464af111352ef3326518e94d3e7d53b@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c20003e8d12a.a464af111352ef3326518e94d3e7d53b@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.94 / 15.00]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.78)[-0.781]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c20003e8d12a.a464af111352ef3326518e94d3e7d53b@email-od.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c20003e8d12a.a464af111352ef3326518e94d3e7d53b@email-od.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.973]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.984]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com,hotmail.com,freebsd.org]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 06:08:37 -0000 On Mon, 13 Jul 2020 20:46:02 -0400 Aryeh Friedman wrote: > And Java is one the most natural languages I have used Yes it can be, but the pile of excremental programming philosophy that started with EJB, swallowed several books on design patterns (to be worn on the sleeve in sentence length variable names) has festered for a few decades since is anything but natural and pretty much requires an IDE to write. Strangely it is surprisingly easy to write working code in but remarkably hard to debug when it doesn't work for subtle reasons. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith