From owner-freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 23 19:06:53 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2C281065674; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:06:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thomas@goodking.ca) Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com (qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C14C8FC28; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:06:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thomas@goodking.ca) Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 3so156228qwe.7 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.83.201 with SMTP id g9mr717011vcl.42.1245784012179; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from goodking.goodking.ca (host-216-211-94-41.tbaytel.net [216.211.94.41]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 42sm778969yxe.141.2009.06.23.12.06.50 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:06:50 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Thomas Abthorpe From: Thomas Abthorpe Organization: FreeBSD.GoodKing.Ca To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:05:55 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 References: <200906181114.43935.tabthorpe@freebsd.org> <3f6a88120906230713kf44c826x928beea65adf6c0e@mail.gmail.com> <20090623175247.GA65395@wep4035.physik.uni-wuerzburg.de> In-Reply-To: <20090623175247.GA65395@wep4035.physik.uni-wuerzburg.de> X-Face: /|[9,PbEOB6g>?2^*Sc|"~6:Ro"O>Nv\Rfkv\42g)=?utf-8?q?TuAYG=26+bD=5CpCJTX31s=5Fp=7Bc7=5D5a=2ED=2E=0A=09Y?=@QddKu_I[XB8; euK=^[=L1I#]rgi[0jgz^4qCTwlj]3kJ)]vc}O"HrA14hN)=?utf-8?q?aXewJPTi=7C=0A=09Pt=7BS3=23Vw4x-?="/:& Cc: Alexey Shuvaev , Doug Barton Subject: Re: [RFC] New category proposal, i18n X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:06:54 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On June 23, 2009 01:52:47 pm Alexey Shuvaev wrote: > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:13:48AM -0400, Thomas Abthorpe wrote: > > 2009/6/23 Chris Rees : > > > 2009/6/23 Doug Barton : > > >> Thomas Abthorpe wrote: > > >>> To have localization, you need internationalization, so from this, I > > >>> stand by my original proposal of i18n. > > >> > > >> I have no objection to your reasoning, but continue to object to the > > >> specific string. If you're going to go down this road then > > >> "internationalization" would be the better choice. > > >> > > >> Doug > > > > > > I would agree with Doug. We're in the days of tab-completion, and > > > typing 'in' will suffice to get there. I for one *hate* numbers > > > in paths; it takes one's hand off the letters. Also, I had to look up > > > i18n to find out what it was... Categories should be immediately > > > descriptive. > > Hard to achive... x11-wm, x11-fm, audio vs. multimedia, ... Agreed, but I still don't have to like it! > > > > Also, the French have to use Shift to type numbers; it's even more of > > > a pain for them! > > Unrelated problem. Agreed, FreeBSD is developed/rooted in en_US anyway. And from my limited contact with my European brethren, they seem to prefer US keyboards for their FreeBSD work. > > head -50 test.c > kill -s KILL 46129 > man 3 printf > mount /dev/da0a mnt/ > > I think you can't avoid using numbers in command-line. > BTW, numbers are much better than spaces or localized characters: > 'Мои документы' ( == 'My Documents') Touche! > > > > Chris > > > > You have struck a chord with numbers in the path, reminds me of the > > pre-Xorg days with /usr/X11R6, not sure what I disliked more, the > > capital letters or the numbers! > > > > I hereby relent, and yield to the logic of the arguments placed before > > me, I now agree that using internationalization for the category name > > is a better idea. > > Well, if the new category supposed to be real, > I don't like 'internationalization' name. > The reason? Very simple. > For now I get: > > ~> ls /usr/ports/ > CHANGES archivers finance misc shells > COPYRIGHT astro french multimedia sysutils > GIDs audio ftp net textproc > INDEX-8 benchmarks games net-im ukrainian > KNOBS biology german net-mgmt vietnamese > LEGAL cad graphics net-p2p www > MOVED chinese hebrew news x11 > Makefile comms hungarian packages x11-clocks > Mk converters irc palm x11-drivers > README databases japanese polish x11-fm > Templates deskutils java ports-mgmt x11-fonts > Tools devel korean portuguese x11-servers > UIDs distfiles lang print x11-themes > UPDATING dns mail russian x11-toolkits > accessibility editors math science x11-wm > arabic emulators mbone security > > which fits fine in one 80x25 terminal window. > With the new category: > > ~> ls /usr/ports/ > CHANGES devel net-p2p > COPYRIGHT distfiles news > GIDs dns packages > INDEX-8 editors palm > KNOBS emulators polish > LEGAL finance ports-mgmt > MOVED french portuguese > Makefile ftp print > Mk games russian > README german science > Templates graphics security > Tools hebrew shells > UIDs hungarian sysutils > UPDATING internationalization textproc > accessibility irc ukrainian > arabic japanese vietnamese > archivers java www > astro korean x11 > audio lang x11-clocks > benchmarks mail x11-drivers > biology math x11-fm > cad mbone x11-fonts > chinese misc x11-servers > comms multimedia x11-themes > converters net x11-toolkits > databases net-im x11-wm > deskutils net-mgmt > > which is too long. > You need to scroll to see the whole content of the folder. > That is an annoyance. However I would like to think that with the ongoing evolution of FreeBSD and the ports tree, that this will change at some point anyway. > > > About the topic: from > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2009-June/055424.html > > > It is my intention for ports that do localization related work > > would remain in their existing category, and if appropriate > > we could add the new name to CATEGORIES. > > from: > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2009-June/055463.html > > > To paraphrase a couple of key points > > > > "Localization refers to the adaptation of a product, application > > or document content to meet the language, cultural and other requirements > > of a specific target market (a "locale")." > > > > ... > > > > "Internationalization is the design and development of a product, > > application or document content that enables easy localization > > for target audiences that vary in culture, region, or language." > > > > To have localization, you need internationalization, so from this, > > I stand by my original proposal of i18n. > > > >From the above my conclusion is, if gettext stays in devel > > and kde3-i18n-ca goes to new category, this new category is > for *localized* versions of different applications but not for tools > that help doing *internationalization*. Localization is a subset Internationalization, so the new category becomes a catch all for both entities. > > In any case (I mean the name of the new category), given that some > ports will go into it and some will stay in their current categories > I think the new category should be virtual, not real. I would like for it to be a real category, so we can unclutter the misc/ folder, and encourage more local/internationalized stuff in the new category. > > 0.02$, > Alexey. Thanks for the feedback Alexy, I will include this entire thread when I make my pitch to portmgr@. Thomas - -- Thomas Abthorpe | FreeBSD Committer tabthorpe@FreeBSD.org | http://people.freebsd.org/~tabthorpe -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkpBJ5wACgkQ5Gm/jNBp8qC/bwCghgEXEcCNsI8V3hJZo3t8S/0q +hYAniFf06ieGP4AUmT2k0bhTPl1UAGe =ccIS -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----