From owner-svn-src-all@freebsd.org Thu May 24 00:29:49 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED10CEEEC04 for ; Thu, 24 May 2018 00:29:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pfg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from sonic315-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic315-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.190.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F073872DC for ; Thu, 24 May 2018 00:29:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pfg@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1527121787; bh=knukOSu5Z1ZSVO9s9jEesyN2/HvEdAftgwg60r6RL0A=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=LMpu0m7qZJY8Q9TT/fCmtnoxjAtW80/3U+71MGGkE2bcyqWn2BbBHxx/HgNzfczLBVuNQyOOr2t51VSu0MyNYQmDZfNXAR52Mu1r7PfSrg2cC11QpwOqEA7KzTeIQno7rSxHYOxQnanVvlHqGUIpuknEcafuQ7YP1Qy4jM84YpcOmt+zwFsuNIMkZ/y8mxDCUixr563ioscJi2jD8JXcHrUYGnep4zCoZkz5fgGGHG3ZZTSbBykFLJY7qRGlxml9fqpT268G4h3THu01ZZ2k+BKgJGJcIv370heMDJSylQlrlxHqf3h8rwWd8OlLwUJcVde9ICer1w8vh6hzfs/NPg== X-YMail-OSG: VGFgk0kVM1nu761vDOHwCOb02KG7u9Qh2eyb5JJQX4r90k_KUlSLrn8NwbOAgqL 9C4PPh7KZKpXUow9AgU9MinLTDv.hi6ezQPk4UoHOK1YDQ5jggVxZMeKPsVvZEUkYksJ1o_wTQ8A hKKk5.4V29kZ5XdAWSeeGH3XHYjCuStzD_rjRHboKhfatvt_rCcVon41PeL32ZCF.OCPp83VGyjV edU1XR8PIXtgtXZpYTDQWNw7XrzZFRtmWFx6F9rIGeI_f6ED2A.A7E18inpXA5VjFd6KNVIN2NTi K8DxRGTbR1GY548hvHrEJYyKwVzjCTwvFmOGzovbQR0ajwGYwo6oqISdesdxTBp82Q61Gof6FIbE 5K9EeXwBLup5.tpF36ixaJkjgNMh6aCqxXJFdKUlQdTQSUC3hqu7pQ8UNTRVDiTNiJw_ooRAZhjL Enrf_JBFm9W91XlfKFBW7PZrRrpDhEMhrzg7KWCk_6MzAPRjXaOe9ls5b8OBv7407CQP4fjI_4Qp Ph.v5haWOtShhpPlfEX66EwtxAE5_eMN8z57L2_BKPLsSKhLLaMtb08tYoZ9jIiel20Pu.RYjrwq kSj_E2er.ug.yjrzxb0w_XvBCXqId3He0DaHertEUlHsx6SX1xYkR6t58w58ZZw9ceLjtyzKtVhG wifm9aEjwm93sh_vnCLU- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic315.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 May 2018 00:29:47 +0000 Received: from 181.52.72.201 (EHLO [192.168.0.6]) ([181.52.72.201]) by smtp424.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID ed07b1a55577f5984de771dc4deb3de9; Thu, 24 May 2018 00:09:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Deorbiting i386 To: Cy Schubert , Brooks Davis Cc: Eugene Grosbein , Stefan Esser , "rgrimes@freebsd.org" , Mark Linimon , Gleb Smirnoff , Sean Bruno , "svn-src-head@freebsd.org" , "svn-src-all@freebsd.org" , "src-committers@freebsd.org" References: <201805232218.w4NMIxMA067892@slippy.cwsent.com> From: Pedro Giffuni Organization: FreeBSD Project Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 19:09:38 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <201805232218.w4NMIxMA067892@slippy.cwsent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 24 May 2018 03:40:12 +0000 X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 00:29:49 -0000 FWIW; On 23/05/2018 17:18, Cy Schubert wrote: > In message <20180523202228.GC58848@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net>, Brooks > Davis wr > ites: >> >> --QRj9sO5tAVLaXnSD >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> Content-Disposition: inline >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> >> On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 02:53:16AM +0700, Eugene Grosbein wrote: >>> 24.05.2018 2:30, Cy Schubert wrote: >>> =20 >>>> Except for old computers and old software that segfaults on 64-bit, how= >> many people still use i386? >>>> =20 >>>> Full disclosure: I'd like to see i386 deorbited before I retire. >>> =20 >>> Plese don't. I routinely use FreeBSD11/i386 for cheap VPS hosts having le= >> ss than 2G memory >>> because amd64 has noticeable overhead. I even have ZFS-only i386 VPS, her= >> e is live example with 1G only: >>> =20 >>> Mem: 10M Active, 69M Inact, 230M Wired, 685M Free >>> ARC: 75M Total, 1953K MFU, 31M MRU, 172K Anon, 592K Header, 42M Other >>> 3500K Compressed, 29M Uncompressed, 8.61:1 Ratio >>> Swap: 1024M Total, 1024M Free >>> =20 >>> The VPS has only 20G of disk space and ZFS compression gives >>> compressratio 2.22x for ports, 2.51x for src, 2.29x for obj >>> and 1.95x for installed i386 system plus other software and data. >> I think we're quite a ways from being ready to axe i386. >> >> For VPS applications, we should probably get x32 support in place which >> should give us the best of both worlds. >> >> That said, we either need to rev the i386 ABI to use a 64-bit time_t or >> kill it in the not to distant future or we risk embedded systems failing >> in place in 2038. If we assume a 15 year life for most equipment to >> fail electrically or mechanically that says FreeBSD 13 shouldn't support >> the current i386 ABI. > Rereading this, I'm confused. FreeBSD 13? 2023? Either works for me, > though 2023 is more reasonable and gives people more than enough time > to migrate. > > IMHO, we shouldn't at all plan to deorbit i386: it is a platform that is very easy to test on Jenkins/bhyve. If we want to keep FreeBSD multiplatform it is way easier to test and find bugs on i386 than on other 32 bit platforms. It is fully functional and much more than historic value. X32 sadly didn't catch on linux on AFAICT, although I wouldn't object to it appearing on FreeBSD. Pedro.