Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:11:14 -0500 From: Troy Mills <troymills@gmail.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Foundation Message-ID: <b2538b200412230711166828ba@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <LOBBIFDAGNMAMLGJJCKNCEMPEPAA.tedm@toybox.placo.com> References: <200412230046.39559.jaymo@cromagnon.cullmail.com> <LOBBIFDAGNMAMLGJJCKNCEMPEPAA.tedm@toybox.placo.com>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
Ted Mittelstaedt explained it far better then I could have and I thank him for that. FreeBSD is an awesome thing indeed and one of the wonderful things is thatit is indeed free to the end user but really nothing is totally free, peoples time is worth something and the hardware they need to continue to develop is also not free. It is very easy to take things for granted. I know FreeBSD is _no where near_ going the way of the dodo but.. it can only make things so much better for everyone if everyone chipped in 5$ or whatever at least one time. Those who use this platform for there own financial gain. i.e. corporate webservers etc.. should really consider it as well. Buying CD's etc.. from freebsdmall.com really helps as well, every little thing counts!. Plus it is that time of the year! :) p.s. I'm aware that gmail destroys the 'flow' of email sometimes so I apologize in advance, nothing I can do about it. On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 02:34:37 -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm@toybox.placo.com> wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Jay Moore > > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 10:47 PM > > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Troy Mills > > Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Foundation > > > > > > On Wednesday 22 December 2004 11:02 am, Troy Mills wrote: > > > > > > As some of you may or may not know the FreeBSD Foundation supports the > > > FreeBSD developers financially via funds mainly from donations from > > > the public. Anyway there is a IRS "1/3rd test" for "public support" > > > and the current foundation ratio that is a little out of whack due to > > > a few generous people donating large sums of money. I have no idea > > > what will happen if they cannot remain a public charity but I'm sure > > > the affects wont be positive as they clearly stated that it is in > > > there interest to remain a public charity. > > > > > > I'm in no position to be shelling out lots of money right now but I'm > > > going to do my part and I would hope that some of you chip in as well. > > > from my understanding they need a larger number of people donating a > > > smaller amount to correct the ratio. > > > > > > QUESTION: Do sales of the FreeBSD CDs support the project? And if so, now? > > > > I thought I _was_ supporting the project through my CD > > subscription... I was > > not aware of the FreeBSD Foundation (thanks for the enlightenment), but > > financial support for software developers of any kind seems a bit of a > > stretch for a "charity". Perhaps I'm just not in tune with the legal > > definition of a charity. > > > > Hi Jay, > > The short answer to your question is "it depends on who you buy > your CD's from" > > If you are buying them from http://www.freebsdmall.com then yes, > they have provided significant support in the past and still do - in > February 2004 they contributed $5K to The FreeBSD Foundation - and in > the past, years ago when they were Walnut Creek CDROM they contributed > far more support to the Project. > > If your buying from someone else that presses their own CD's then > the answer is "maybe". You would have to ask them. Keep in mind > though that support comes in many forms other than just kicking > money into a pot. Far more valuable is time spent answering > questions. > > You might consider this for example - If you ever purchased > my book you supported me, I in turn have answered numerous questions > people have posted on the mailing lists, and have e-mailed me. > For the people I've helped my assistance has been far more valuable > to them than any money that anyone has contributed to the project. > > Now, as for the Foundation's status as a charity: > > I'll start with asking you a simple question: Setting aside the > legal definitions, what in your mind IS a charity, exactly? > > Well, to a lot of people, a charity is simply a kind of accepted > Robin Hood - it takes from the (willing) rich and gives to the > poor and needy. > > But, this narrow definition isn't the dictionary definition of > a charity, and it really isn't the general definition of a charity > either. For example, take the Catholic Church. This is legally > and in many people's eyes morally, a charity. Yet, while Catholic > churches run ministries that help the poor, the Catholic Church > is by no means giving everything it has to the poor - it's accounted > the wealthiest organization on the face of the Earth, for starters, > and there are many thousands of projects that Catholics do that > aren't ministering to the poor and needy, but rather projects > that are for the public good that benefit the general public. > > My definition of a charity, and the dictionary definition of a > charity, is that a charity is an organization that administers a > pot of money and talent that they dole out to not just needy people, but > to people and groups that do what you call Good Works - that is, > benevolent projects that have as sole purpose the benefit of > the general public - ie: us. > > So on to your question about why are we paying software developers? > > Well it's like this. There are things that are part of FreeBSD that > need to be done and have as a benefit, the entire FreeBSD project, > and in fact, anyone who uses FreeBSD. And, as FreeBSD moves more > and more away from a pure "hobbiest" operating system and becomes > a player in the commercial sector, increasingly these things are > issues with commercial software. > > For example, every time that one of the Ziff-Davis ragazines does > yet another tired 'bake-off' contest between Windows and FreeBSD, > somebody from the FreeBSD camp must spend a lot of time hand-holding > the moron writers that write the bake-off articles. Who is that > person going to be? Will it be some young, but inexperienced > FreeBSD advocate who is very eager to do it and will do it for free? > Or will it be some experienced FreeBSD person who's time is > expensive, and in order to do it will have to tell paying clients > to wait an extra week? Which one of these people do you think > is going to help FreeBSD score higher? > > Software companies that are contemplating porting their commercial > projects to UNIX versions, they read these tired bake-off contests. > And they aren't going to spend money on an operating system that is > represented in these articles as an unsupported, unreliable, > operating system. > > The long and short of it is that BSD in general survives due to > code and assistance rendered by the software industry, specifically > commercial producers. If the industry didn't provide jobs for > thes developers they wouldn't have the time to work on FreeBSD. > Some of these commercial software companies have products that depend on > FreeBSD and when there is a problem in FreeBSD these companies pay > for the time that developers spend fixing FreeBSD problems. > > So, to keep these commercial consumers happy with FreeBSD, the > Project needs to meet them halfway. For example the port of the > Sun JDK to FreeBSD. I don't honestly think that there is a > developer in the world who doesen't work for Sun that really wants > to spend their free time fixing bugs in Sun's Java code, to get it to > run on FreeBSD. Even Sun's developers don't want to do this dirty > work. But if it's going to get done someone has to do it, > so that is why the FreeBSD Foundation exists - to step in and pay for > development when completing a project like the JDK port has > a clear and obvious benefit to the public good. That pretty > much defines a charity, don't you think? > > Ted > >
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?b2538b200412230711166828ba>