Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 15:42:20 -0800 From: Mike Smith <msmith@freebsd.org> To: Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com> Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Lynx test / 2nd attempt Message-ID: <200012062342.eB6NgKF00804@mass.osd.bsdi.com> In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 06 Dec 2000 22:35:45 GMT." <200012062235.PAA25544@usr08.primenet.com>
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> > > Is FreeBSD being "a PnP OS" an alpha need?
> >
> > I don't think I understand this question.
>
> An OS can do a PnP scan correctly, without firmware/BIOS support,
> and enable devices which by default will not be enabled without
> the OS doing the work.
I still don't have the faintest idea what you're saying.
> > > This normally leads vendors of non-x86
> > > machines to support a limited set of hardware, and do the POST
> > > initialization of the card in their own ROM or firmware code.
> >
> > This is bunk.
>
> Hey, if you can get my Compaq SCSI controller working on my Multia,
> I'll be happy to retract. :^).
You're quoting a specific case, which does not support your assertion of
"normally".
Compaq don't make SCSI controllers, to the best of my knowledge. You're
probably also talking about a PCI device, which doesn't require firmware
support for PnP configuration.
> > > If the card's default POST state didn't require the CPU to do
> > > processing when the card was installed with PnP mode enable,
> > > then doing the "PnP OS" thing would work; otherwise, it probably
> > > won't. This means that ISA PnP will probably be broken on these
> > > boxes as well.
> >
> > This is also bunk.
>
> PnP cards come up disabled by default, unless they are enabled;
This is optional, and not actually always the case.
> what you're saying here (when you say it's "bunk") translates to
> me to mean that that the cards aren't disabled by default, or
> that all Apha machines with ISA slots have PnP support in their
> firmware/BIOS?
Your assertion that ISA PnP is broken on these systems is bunk, and is
supported by faulty reasoning.
> If so, I think the original complaint can be addressed by just
> referencing the resource tables out of the PnP stuff on the
> platform, but I have no idea how to do that on an Alpha, as
> it's unlikely to have PnP BIOS entry points. 8-|.
It doesn't, but it must have some mechanism for obtaining this
information, which is what I've been trying to establish.
> > > Carrying around the non-x86 equivalent for all
> > > possible cards that were designed by people who can't get their
> > > hardware into a functional state by default without the help of
> > > x86 code is really not an option.
> >
> > And this is irrelevant.
>
> It's relevent for my SCSI card, which, as well as hooking the
> PC BIOS at POST time, sets up default sequencer firmware using
> the host processor. This doesn't work unless called, which
> means that the controller is not capable of booting my machine.
You confuse OS scope with firmware scope. You will not be able to boot
the controller in question because it is not supported by the firmware in
question.
> Since the controller is recognized by the AlphaBIOS, I wonder if
> it is possible to load stuff into RAM with the AlphaBIOS, and
> then switch to the SRM, without disturbing the memory image?
No.
> This would let FreeBSD get the FreeBSD driver loaded by the
> firmware that recognizes the card as a boot device, and then
> switch over.
You still wouldn't be able to boot from it.
> What are the chances of using the x86 emulator for video cards
> to do the initialization job for SCSI cards?
Zero, without access to SRM sources.
--
... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his
rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want
to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force
people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt]
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