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Date:      Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:24:33 +0930
From:      Greg Lehey <grog@FreeBSD.org>
To:        Adam <element@Dim.com>
Cc:        FreeBSD Chat <chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   Re: Query:  How to tell if Microsoft is using BSD TCP/IP code?
Message-ID:  <20010620092433.F60710@wantadilla.lemis.com>
In-Reply-To: <200106192117.f5JLHsS11182@supernova.dimensional.com>; from element@Dim.com on Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 03:14:17PM -0700
References:  <200106192117.f5JLHsS11182@supernova.dimensional.com>

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[following up to -chat]

On Tuesday, 19 June 2001 at 15:14:17 -0700, Adam wrote:
> unattributed wrote:
>> BSDI or CSRG did the contract work, according to my sources;
>> so you might want to ask Kirk or Mike Karels, since you are
>> more connected to them than we are (e.g. same building, etc.).
>>
>> My sources are a former BSDI employee from way back (lawsuit
>> days and before), and another person.
>>
>> The FTP utility contains the copyright string (run "strings"
>> on it).  Several other standard tools have similar copyright
>> strings in them.
>
> An article over on www.Kuro5hin.org by a someone who claims
> to be a former MS employee describes the stack used in NT back
> in the early 90's as code which was liscensed from a company
> called 'Spider'.

This must be Spider in Edinburgh, Scotland.

> In the comp.unix.admin archives I found a post which references
> Spider QNIX as a *nix variant

The Spider I'm thinking of had nothing to do with QNIX.  They made
custom communications software.  At Tandem we used their X.25 stack.
I didn't know that they also did TCP/IP stuff, but it's plausible.

> so I'm pretty sure this is who the article is referencing. Anyway
> this code in turn was pulled from BSD back in the day...

It's ambiguous at best.

> "...Along with Spider's stack came versions of various
> TCP/IP-related utility programs,

It's possible to read into this that their stack was primarily
non-TCP/IP, which would fit.

> such as ftp, rcp and rsh. Those were ported from BSD sockets to
> winsock (not a huge change) and bundled with NT."
>
> I don't know how much faith you can put in it, but its an
> interesting read. I found the following snippet to be quite
> curious...
>
> "And implying that the TCP/IP stack uses BSD code is also
> false. As I said above there may be small vestiges of it
> in there, although I doubt it.

There's little to go on here one way or the other.

> Anyway the FreeBSD programmers who reported all this to the Wall
> Street Journal can't see the NT TCP/IP source either, so they can't
> have been referring to that."

This sounds like a content-free statement.

Greg
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