From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 31 10:48:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC7E41065673; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:48:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ap@bnc.net) Received: from mailomat.net (mailomat.net [81.20.89.254]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D80CE8FC19; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:48:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ap@bnc.net) X-Mailomat-SpamCatcher-Score: 2 [X] X-Mailomat-Cloudmark-Score: 0.000000 [] Received: from [194.39.192.125] (account bnc-mail@mailrelay.mailomat.net HELO bnc.net) by mailomat.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTPSA id 47388895; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:48:03 +0200 X-SpamCatcher-Score: 2 [X] Received: from [194.39.192.126] (account ap HELO wasabi.wlan.bnc.net) by bnc.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.5) with ESMTPSA id 3283819; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:48:03 +0200 Message-Id: From: Achim Patzner To: Jeremy Chadwick In-Reply-To: <20080731100821.GA15213@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-15-823397319; micalg=sha1; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v926) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:48:02 +0200 References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <86y73j341e.fsf@ds4.des.no> <86bq0ftjf6.fsf@ds4.des.no> <8C2BF4B9-14CD-40EA-B22E-DBB7060BFE46@bnc.net> <3A7C430E-AA1C-4CF3-88F5-F7A0EBE3273A@bnc.net> <20080731100821.GA15213@eos.sc1.parodius.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.926) X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:48:05 -0000 --Apple-Mail-15-823397319 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Am 31.07.2008 um 12:08 schrieb Jeremy Chadwick: > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:17:54AM +0200, Achim Patzner wrote: >> Drivers? Who cares. Serial port? Just plug in an USB-to-serial. > > You've obviously never used a USB-to-serial adapter. Wrong; I'm using them all the time. Initial kneading of serious Cisco stuff still didn't get into the 21. century. My tool of choice is an ExSys EX-1372 (ExpressCard, but that's just a fancy packaging for USB) which is - using the Mac OS built-in driver or Windows > 2000 - working out of the box and interrupt delivery is good enough to run Auerswald's Java application for their PABX systems (which is so timing-dependent that it is refusing to work with quite a few "real" serial ports). > Are you aware of > the fact that there is no serial device class as part of the USB > specification? (Quite a great irony, if you ask me. Universal SERIAL > Bus, yet no serial device class...) AFAIK, there isn't even a draft > proposal for such. I don't care. It just *works*, even with off-the-mill Prolific trash (although those will not suffice for my telefone). I won't even get into typical Mac-user's creature comforts like using Bluetooth serial devices (just power it on and the Mac magically sprouts a /dev/cu.Bluetooth-dongle-name.subdevice plus /dev/tty. which will even do fancy stuff like automatic speed and parity settings. > so there's no way to guarantee it'll work with FreeBSD. Which is true for so many things. Which I can buy off-the-shelf for Mac OS. No hassle, no hacking, no sweat. For me a desktop machine is a tool; I won't give it more consideration than a screwdriver. It has to do its job which (again: for me) is delivering a usable front- end for servers and writing documentation (and bills!) plus doing all the communication stuff I need to be able to work wherever I am. It boils down to: Unix, no Linux, Word (They make me need it...), VMware. >> It's a perfect machine for the desktop; I've forbidden FreeBSD to >> come >> creeping out the server room some years ago. I need it for keeping >> the >> penguins away, it's really good at that (no wonder - pitchforks do >> hurt). >> But it's a pain for desktoppy things - so why shouldn't I use >> something >> less useful? And the other way round: Running Mac OS X Server is the >> most painful thing I've ever been paid for; I've been replacing a >> lot of >> them with FreeBSD-based servers. > > The amount of rhetoric in these two paragraphs is amazing; I literally > cannot tell if you're trolling with anti-FreeBSD propaganda, or if > you're trolling with pro-FreeBSD propaganda. Congratulations, you've > confused at least one reader. Wrong on both counts. I'm just using the appropriate tools for the jobs that need to be done. And on the desktop FreeBSD just plain sucks in comparison to Mac OS. And after all, Mac users need FreeBSD - who else should provide them with all the nice things from ipfw to the user land? Would you really expect Apple to do it all on its own? Face it: The real difference between servers and desktops is the "who has to bend over"-question. Servers are adapted to the software they are going to run while on "personal computers" the software has to adapt to the machine ("I want that shiny Sony. I don't care if the hardware sucks, it's beautiful."). And Chuck is quite definitely lacking at bending over... Achim --Apple-Mail-15-823397319--