From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 19 22:46:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3020106564A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:46:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@funtoo.org) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77F9F8FC0C for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:46:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so4675655qcs.13 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:46:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=6/9fol+QVkwhWZ3qbj00W3VKqjPwgFJPzxiUGwW3wpE=; b=BBbvGTpGxYF8nOVBjsRXHvBlLofCXj0NQm5fbnNpNQnHEiQ7SwNR3E/l/l5DEs2OQG buJdbP275b6U1xnUWgyja2dSSOYV7BjBFcU4sDDlMMxFg9DTfo1+boFDZl07uRWdmYLY yzbSFJGUqinNAMXdp29no99CV7A3r6NMfYsbOlD1JDIYLdjGfA1M7r5X1ocn9KyB6myY Mxia03mw/PurdUQjbo5YWpWQUUdQE/9+85OePtjngirQBn8hNNuzTGDyMPDaFY5DwtRD ziCDN9C6fd5OiI3oiUL4B5mUag7N3Cih0oXk53hX585gza9j+X0bcjEogAS1KRvMOXx+ H2NA== Received: by 10.229.105.100 with SMTP id s36mr1055258qco.88.1340146006849; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (pool-108-46-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net. [108.46.203.161]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j12sm31325713qak.15.2012.06.19.15.46.45 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:45:13 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.5) Gecko/20120613 Thunderbird/10.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Garrett Cooper References: <20120615124849.GI96212@ass.kameli.org> <20120618081140.GK96212@ass.kameli.org> <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlQ5/7tcG2SYxU45BoKzdNs1Tc56CE5KuJVMUNPHpqDv5D2YldR62jx/KU4hG3fLFyKGOk2 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:54:20 +0000 Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Richard Yao , Vincent Hoffman , Nathan Whitehorn , Outback Dingo , openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:46:47 -0000 On 06/19/2012 06:17 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Richard Yao wrote: >> On 06/19/2012 04:12 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote: >>> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Richard Yao wrote: >>>> On 06/19/2012 12:50 PM, Doug Barton wrote: >>>>> On 6/18/2012 4:05 PM, Richard Yao wrote: >>>>>> Doug, we already have OpenRC implemented. You can install Gentoo FreeBSD >>>>>> in a jail, install regular FreeBSD in another jail and do your own >>>>>> performance comparisons. >>>>> >>>>> Bzzzzzzzzt! Thanks for playing. :) You're the one proposing the change, >>>>> YOU get to do the performance comparisons. If you want a rough idea of >>>>> what I personally would consider to be a robust test, don't hesitate to >>>>> ask. I'm sure others would have ideas as well. >>>> >>>> Would you elaborate on what you consider to be a robust test? I really >>>> have no idea. >>> >>> It might be an ok smoke test, but it's hardly a realistic >>> test/comparison as the pseudo startup for a jail and a real system >>> aren't close to being the same (this is in part because of how jails >>> function). >> >> Would you elaborate on what you consider to be acceptable? Honestly, I >> am not certain if you will appreciate any tests unless you do them yourself. > > Change /etc/rc to use OpenRC in the base system. > -Garrett That is already done in Gentoo FreeBSD, or do you want me to do the work for you to integrate OpenRC in the base system? I already have OpenRC in Gentoo FreeBSD. Taking the time to integrate OpenRC into FreeBSD would be an inefficient use of my time. Not only would I fail to gain any improvements on my systems, but I would divert development time from things that do benefit me. People can use Gentoo FreeBSD in jails (or on physical hardware) to do comparisons. If they like it, Gentoo's developers are willing to help, but you cannot expect us to do your work for you. That would be like asking the Clang developers to replace your system compiler or the Illumos developers to replace your file system. FreeBSD's developers need to be the ones to import OpenRC into FreeBSD's base system, not us. We will just fix problems you encounter and collaborate on improvements. That is what every other upstream does.