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Date:      Sat, 9 Feb 2019 19:17:43 -0800
From:      Enji Cooper <yaneurabeya@gmail.com>
To:        Adam <amvandemore@gmail.com>
Cc:        Wojciech Puchar <wojtek@puchar.net>, Sidju <lists@sidju.se>, "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>, Conrad Meyer <cem@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: nosh init system
Message-ID:  <01CB4D6D-0958-42E3-9BD6-149B0A26DB95@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CA%2BtpaK0_LjfxvzEE1_jN03Hp9JeRSag43xXDjcHjqajJnYgMLw@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <c8sxY3L8OrRosQ0UdftF6FrqHGRs_uJal0l7YlID7b_xwVG05yeU8DGoS78wo5089zww5pDdvbM_gwCkXxCVjaPYiDS-kNJLxN7b9iGwfxk=@sidju.se> <CAG6CVpXy4q16QhG1ycFnVZ8cgEfb%2BpS8tmPJykv8Wa-GthginQ@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.BSF.2.20.1902091830490.45199@puchar.net> <CF8D2DCD-F63A-4E79-9CBC-CD45D5D596DD@gmail.com> <CA%2BtpaK0_LjfxvzEE1_jN03Hp9JeRSag43xXDjcHjqajJnYgMLw@mail.gmail.com>

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> On Feb 9, 2019, at 10:32, Adam <amvandemore@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>> On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 11:57 AM Enji Cooper <yaneurabeya@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>=20
>> On Feb 9, 2019, at 09:32, Wojciech Puchar <wojtek@puchar.net> wrote:
>>=20
>> >> pid 2 and reap zombies.  We're missing a half-decent service
>> >> management system.  On Linux, systemd performs both roles.  On
>> >> FreeBSD, init(8) serves one role, and rc(8) is a tiny subset of a real=

>> >> service management system like systemd.
>> >=20
>> > systemd is overcomplex crap. And a reason many people migrated to FreeB=
SD from linux.
>> >=20
>> >>=20
>> >> (I think the piece we would consider replacing or supplementing would
>> >> be rc(8).  Part of that might be migrating some responsibilities from
>> >> pid 1 to pid 2, such as spawning gettys.  I don't hold strong opinions=

>> >> about that.)
>> >=20
>> > this make sense but with spawning gettys left to init.
>> >=20
>> >=20
>> > what do you want to improve in rc? starting services in parallel doesn'=
t seem to be major problem to make i think.
>>=20
>> Starting and stopping services based on logical events and =E2=80=9Crun l=
evels=E2=80=9D, apart from what devd handles with hardware events is what co=
mes to mind for me.
>>=20
>> rc(8) is also incredibly fragile when it comes to starting or stopping se=
rvices beyond first boot, or when dealing with =E2=80=9Coptional=E2=80=9D se=
rvices, like nis/yp. I tried to clean this up a few years ago, but it=E2=80=99=
s not close to my ideal design (it feels like  a bubblegum and duct tape sol=
ution).
>=20
> "incredibly fragile" indicates there is some common, easily triggered issu=
e with it.  Can you elaborate please?  I stop and restart base services and o=
thers on a regular basis and don't see an issue there although I also haven'=
t use NIS for some time.

Try restarting netif if you have a static route set; it will break routing (=
until you restart the routing pseudo service), causing your machine to becom=
e unreachable if you=E2=80=99re not on the same network segment.

Linux doesn=E2=80=99t have this problem; neither does OS X.

Thanks,
-Enji=



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