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Date:      Wed, 19 Mar 2014 15:59:25 -0400
From:      Daniel Corbe <corbe@corbe.net>
To:        Arthur Chance <freebsd@qeng-ho.org>
Cc:        Matthew Seaman <matthew@freebsd.org>, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: FreeBSD is really great.. BUT..
Message-ID:  <ygfwqfqc63m.fsf@corbe.net>
In-Reply-To: <5329C1C0.6070004@qeng-ho.org> (Arthur Chance's message of "Wed,  19 Mar 2014 16:11:44 %2B0000")
References:  <CAFNm86TGi5VDznAg3FU%2BVLWD9b3fLo-gA1fzhEhseMZfe2hNuA@mail.gmail.com> <5329B35B.8040005@freebsd.org> <5329C1C0.6070004@qeng-ho.org>

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Arthur Chance <freebsd@qeng-ho.org> writes:

> On 19/03/2014 15:10, Matthew Seaman wrote:
>> On 03/19/14 10:34, Martin Braun wrote:
>>> The binary packages on FreeBSD are compiled with so few options availab=
le
>>> that you end up compiling the whole bunch from source anyway!
>>>
>>> A simple setup on a mailserver with Postfix, Dovecot, MySQL, and a coup=
le
>>> of other packages doesn't work using the binary packages because they a=
re
>>> NOT compiled to fit together!
>>>
>>> Now.. what the "=C2=A4"%"#!"!=C2=A4 is the point then!? Why don't we ju=
st forget
>>> about binary packages in FreeBSD and make everyone compile?
>>
>> Because we're in a state of transition at the moment.  We have not yet
>> completely obsoleted the old pkg_tools (soon though...), so there are
>> changes to the ports tree we cannot make just yet.  pkg(8) itself is
>> right now in the process of growing a much more sophisticated solver,
>> which will mean much more intelligence about constructing dependency
>> trees based on the capabilities and requirements of the available
>> packages, rather than the RUN_DEPENDS settings pulled from the ports tre=
e.
>>
>> Yes, it's frustrating at the moment since we're in a half-way house
>> between the old-style ports and the regime where binary packages
>> basically 'just work' for the vast majority of users.  (It's likely that
>> there will always be people who want odd combinations of options who
>> will be best advised to compile their own, but ideally they should be
>> few and far between.)
>>
>> The best user experience at the moment seems to be for people building
>> packages using poudriere (or similar) and running their own repo to
>> distribute them.  But that's just at the moment, and could well change
>> pretty soon.
>
> That's good to hear and keep up the good work, but I suspect there are
> some awkward customers (like me) who will always have to roll their
> own. On world facing servers in particular I cut out large chunks of
> the base system that aren't used, on the grounds that if it's present
> it probably won't have security vulnerabilities, but if it's absent it
> definitely can't have them. (Similarly, removing the tool chain on a
> server prevents one well known attack escalation.) Some ports rely by
> default on base system features I remove, so I'll always have to build
> custom versions of those. However, if the pkgng work can satisfy 99%
> of the FreeBSD audience the team will get major applause from me.
>

The current status quo is acceptable.  Pre-built binary packages solve
80% of my problems and I have to build the other 20% from ports.  But
that's still 80% less work for me to do.




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