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Date:      Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:05:13 +0100
From:      "bsd@todoo.biz" <bsd@todoo.biz>
To:        Liste FreeBSD <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: Hardware RAID or software for ZFS
Message-ID:  <2A45AB64-6EB4-4A22-9625-4931605F62F0@todoo.biz>
In-Reply-To: <546B820A.7040806@freebsd.org>
References:  <7F1B1DC4-46CA-4B96-836B-2D2D494F60E8@todoo.biz> <546B820A.7040806@freebsd.org>

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> Le 18 nov. 2014 =C3=A0 18:29, Matthew Seaman <matthew@freebsd.org> a =
=C3=A9crit :
>=20
> On 11/18/14 15:28, bsd@todoo.biz wrote:
>> I would need your help in order to figure out which will be the best =
in order to setup a server which will be used as a Poudriere server.=20
>>=20
>> My question is related to the usage of hardware RAID controller =
(JBOD) or software based controller (graid)=20
>>=20
>> Server we are targeting is a SuperMicro 1018R-WC0R - 1U
>>=20
>> I used to build my server using an HBA such as LSI SAS 9207-8i or LSI =
SAS 9201-16i
>> Then I=E2=80=99ll configure the HBA as JBOD so that disks can be =
presented correctly to the system so that we can build our ZFS FS on top =
of that.=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> My sysadmin suggested me to get rid of the HBA and use direct =
connectivity and Graid.=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> I would like to have some feedback on various aspects :=20
>>=20
>> 1. performance=20
>> 2. usability=20
>> 3. problem one might have encountered
>>=20
>=20
> OK -- Your sysadmin is correct about the direct connectivity thing, =
but
> graid?  Seriously?  That's an option for really cheap and some might =
say
> quite nasty pseudo-raid things you get on some desktop hardware.  If
> you're going to be building a significant number of packages with any
> regularity, then you're going to need something better than that.
>=20
> The LSI HBAs you suggest are known to work well with FreeBSD.  If =
you're
> going to be using ZFS -- which is really a no-brainer for a poudriere
> box, as poudriere has a lot of functionality built around cloning and
> snapshotting and other things that come naturally to ZFS[*] -- well, =
in
> that case, ideally you want ZFS to have direct access to the disk =
devices.
>=20
> With LSI, when they say 'JBOD' this direct access is generally what =
they
> mean -- although depending on the precise model you get, you may need =
to
> flash the device with different firmware to get the characteristics =
you
> want.  Some other RAID controller manufacturers essentially give you a
> load of single-disk RAID-0 devices, so there's still a layer of RAID
> controller stuff between ZFS and the disk.  That isn't the kiss of =
death
> to the idea of building a zpool from it, but it's less optimal.
>=20
> On the three aspecs you mention:
>=20
>   performance depends very much on the precise type of disk hardware
> you specify, how you configure the zpool (for instance, will you be
> using ZIL or ARC devices?) and on having enough RAM in the system to
> provide an effective buffer-cache for all those ZFS filesystems.
>=20
>   usability.  I'd say ZFS is pretty usable.  Once it's set up, you
> don't really need to interact with things at the level of the HBA.  It
> just works.
>=20
>   problems: this depends very much on the details of what you're =
trying
> to do.  But IMHO you're on the right track with what you've described =
so
> far.
>=20
> 	Cheers,
>=20
> 	Matthew
>=20
> [*] Although poudriere does now work on UFS as well and has done for a
> year or so.
>=20

Thank you very much for this documented and precise answer.=20

I think that the hardware we were targeting is a bit too new and is not =
yet marked as =C2=AB ok =C2=BB for FreeBSD by SuperMicro.=20
We will probably go for a little bit older hardware that=E2=80=99s 100% =
known to work ok with FreeBSD.=20

I have already been building quite large NAS using this setup (JBOD =
Controller + ZFS on top) and I had very interesting perfs.=20
I didn=E2=80=99t know about the problem with native JBOD and controller =
SW update/upgrade=E2=80=A6 =20

> SuperMicro 1018R-WC0R - 1U


This is the one we wanted to target but It doesn=E2=80=99t seem to be on =
the hardware list marked as FreeBSD compatible.=20


Thanks all - long leave FBSD.=20

;-)=20

>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

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=AF=C2=AF=C2=AF=C2=AF=C2=AF=C2=AF=C2=AF=C2=AF=C2=AF=C2=AF=C2=AF
BSD - BSD - BSD - BSD - BSD - BSD - BSD - BSD -
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PGP ID --> 0x1BA3C2FD




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