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Date:      Mon, 20 Jun 2016 05:57:08 +0300
From:      Andrey Chernov <ache@freebsd.org>
To:        Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@FreeBSD.org>
Cc:        svn-src-head@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, src-committers@freebsd.org, Hajimu UMEMOTO <ume@FreeBSD.org>
Subject:   Re: svn commit: r302016 - in head: share/timedef tools/tools/locale/tools
Message-ID:  <45daf91a-6e15-eded-03bd-9d126938b1f0@freebsd.org>
In-Reply-To: <20160619194051.w4dueeutrgtjcfuf@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net>
References:  <201606190344.u5J3iWO6079652@repo.freebsd.org> <3387744f-7abd-417c-599f-163e78b4170e@freebsd.org> <20160619145233.kjnfyxjb75fdcucz@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <20160619154918.etycha7kvj4v7nrp@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <e1c4e728-5abd-3618-1cc1-a63ac64cf63a@freebsd.org> <eea90a85-3731-6870-ba83-107e23337b2d@freebsd.org> <77076d87-41ad-0cce-c703-ed9cef1bdb8b@freebsd.org> <20160619171021.7ps2te7wgoxfqznv@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <a7182802-f25e-ae08-769b-15fcc786e224@freebsd.org> <1f579a9a-3aa4-e99b-f991-b42a1672a9b4@freebsd.org> <20160619194051.w4dueeutrgtjcfuf@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net>

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From: Andrey Chernov <ache@freebsd.org>
To: Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@FreeBSD.org>
Cc: svn-src-head@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org,
 src-committers@freebsd.org, Hajimu UMEMOTO <ume@FreeBSD.org>
Message-ID: <45daf91a-6e15-eded-03bd-9d126938b1f0@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: svn commit: r302016 - in head: share/timedef
 tools/tools/locale/tools
References: <201606190344.u5J3iWO6079652@repo.freebsd.org>
 <3387744f-7abd-417c-599f-163e78b4170e@freebsd.org>
 <20160619145233.kjnfyxjb75fdcucz@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net>
 <20160619154918.etycha7kvj4v7nrp@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net>
 <e1c4e728-5abd-3618-1cc1-a63ac64cf63a@freebsd.org>
 <eea90a85-3731-6870-ba83-107e23337b2d@freebsd.org>
 <77076d87-41ad-0cce-c703-ed9cef1bdb8b@freebsd.org>
 <20160619171021.7ps2te7wgoxfqznv@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net>
 <a7182802-f25e-ae08-769b-15fcc786e224@freebsd.org>
 <1f579a9a-3aa4-e99b-f991-b42a1672a9b4@freebsd.org>
 <20160619194051.w4dueeutrgtjcfuf@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net>
In-Reply-To: <20160619194051.w4dueeutrgtjcfuf@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net>

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On 19.06.2016 22:40, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 10:02:26PM +0300, Andrey Chernov wrote:
>> On 19.06.2016 20:21, Andrey Chernov wrote:
>>> On 19.06.2016 20:10, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
>>>> On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 08:05:30PM +0300, Andrey Chernov wrote:
>>>>> On 19.06.2016 19:52, Andrey Chernov wrote:
>>>>>> On 19.06.2016 19:47, Andrey Chernov wrote:
>>>>>>> On 19.06.2016 18:49, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 04:52:34PM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wro=
te:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 07:57:49AM +0300, Andrey Chernov wrote:=

>>>>>>>>>> On 19.06.2016 6:44, Hajimu UMEMOTO wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Log:
>>>>>>>>>>>   - Prefer to use %d over %e where the day of the month shoul=
d be zero
>>>>>>>>>>>     filled.
>>>>>>>>>>>   - Since %e means the day of the month as well, regard %e as=
 same as %d
>>>>>>>>>>>     in md_order.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nonsense doubled formats in sr_*_RS locales and nonsense md_or=
der there too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Crap I'll dig into it, thanks for spotting it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>> Bapt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Should be fixed by:
>>>>>>>> https://people.freebsd.org/~bapt/locale-triple-components.diff
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The perl script generating the locales was badly handling locale=
s with 3
>>>>>>>> components, fixed now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry about that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>> Bapt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> sr locales are badly named before anything else, proper format is=

>>>>>>> language[_COUNTRY][.encoding][@variant]
>>>>>>> I.e.
>>>>>>> sr_RS.UTF-8@Latn
>>>>>>> sr_RS.ISO8859-2@Latn
>>>>>>> sr_RS.ISO8859-t@Cyrl
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know, if out utilities (f.e. locale(1)) can handle @varia=
nt suffix.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> =3Dsr_RS.ISO8859-5@Cyrl
>>>>>> =3Dour, and not utilities only but libc too
>>>>>
>>>>> Since right now we have only single @variant per each encoding, and=
 no
>>>>> @variant for other locales, we can just drop it and use right names=
 like:
>>>>> sr_RS.UTF-8
>>>>
>>>> We have 2 for the above the Cyrl version and the Latn version
>>>>
>>>>> sr_RS.ISO8859-2
>>>>> sr_RS.ISO8859-5
>>>>
>>>> We can make aliases easily for that is that is what people want, not=
 the we have
>>>> the same for other locales:
>>>>
>>>> zh_Hans_CN.GB18030
>>>> zh_Hans_CN.GB2312
>>>> zh_Hans_CN.GBK
>>>> zh_Hans_CN.UTF-8
>>>> zh_Hans_CN.eucCN
>>>> zh_Hant_HK.UTF-8
>>>> zh_Hant_TW.Big5
>>>> zh_Hant_TW.UTF-8
>>>>
>>>> With some aliases for some of the previously existing ones:
>>>> zh_TW.Big5
>>>> zh_TW.UTF-8
>>>> zh_CN.GB18030
>>>> zh_CN.GB2312
>>>> zh_CN.GBK
>>>> zh_CN.UTF-8
>>>> zh_CN.eucCN
>>>> zh_HK.UTF-8
>>>>
>>>> Some of the new locales (that didn't exist before) I have only impor=
ted the new
>>>> name format:
>>>> kk_Cyrl_KZ.UTF-8
>>>> mn_Cyrl_MN.UTF-8
>>>> sr_Cyrl_RS.ISO8859-5
>>>> sr_Cyrl_RS.UTF-8
>>>> sr_Latn_RS.ISO8859-2
>>>> sr_Latn_RS.UTF-8
>>>>
>>>> I would prefer staying on the new syntax given it is allowed by some=
 RFC and it
>>>> is slowly being adopted everywhere else.
>>>>
>>>> Btw another RFC: https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc5646.txt
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Bapt
>>>>
>>>
>>> Old POSIX don't use RFC 5646, there are ISO-639 two-letter codes. Whe=
n
>>> encodings are different, there is no needs to specify variants, they
>>> have meaning only for the same encoding.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I found POSIX reference about @-syntax:
>> [language[_territory][.codeset][@modifier]]
>> http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap08.htm=
l
>> It says nothing about language, territory or codeset standards.
>>
>> They comes from another standard, ISO 15897:
>> "8. Natural language, as specified in ISO 639
>> 9. Territory, as two-letter form of ISO 3166"
>> I can't find there something about codeset/charmap standartization, bu=
t
>> perhaps I just overlook some reference.
>>
>=20
> Thanks a lot for that reference I wonder how I failed at finding it, I =
read
> twice the locale definition in opengroup documents.
>=20
> I have found yet proof in the code, but from my testings (using nl_lang=
info())
>=20
> I can see that the @modifier is properly supported.
>=20
> I have 2 proposal then:
> 1/ Keep the current version and add aliases with "@" for the one in var=
iants
> 2/ Rename all the variants we have now into the POSIX version with "@"

To minimize confusion among people and better cross-platform
compatibility IMHO we need to see what Linux have here (in parts it not
violates POSIX and ISO standards, of course). We have different charmap
names (ISO-* vs. ISO*), and we have it already too long to change as
many people thinks, but new sr and other locales can be easily set in
line while they are still new.



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