Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 17:36:31 -0700 (MST) From: Warren Block <wblock@wonkity.com> To: marino@freebsd.org Cc: Boris Samorodov <bsam@passap.ru>, Mark Linimon <linimon@lonesome.com>, "ports@FreeBSD.org Ports" <ports@FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: Subscription for committer Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.20.1612191629070.94020@wonkity.com> In-Reply-To: <dfd5d40b-a1e6-1fdc-d55c-0f133e715915@marino.st> References: <b21222a1-4940-1a44-0693-8c7803798a58@marino.st> <20161217193514.GA22107@lonesome.com> <ef894560-2bf7-919d-5de2-dd92c9bfe476@marino.st> <cffaad8d-705c-de7a-1087-3dfb2f1c590c@passap.ru> <dfd5d40b-a1e6-1fdc-d55c-0f133e715915@marino.st>
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On Mon, 19 Dec 2016, John Marino wrote: > On 12/19/2016 04:18, Boris Samorodov wrote: >> 17.12.2016 22:40, John Marino пишет: >> >>> I am not subscribed to the mail list >> >> A port's committer is not subscribed to the ports@ ML? >> Is it a joke? >> > > I don't want to participate in this list. The only reason I'm stuck on this > topic is because Warren said he wasn't aware of any PRs to correct the > handbook and it was important to inform him. Here is the full quote: On Thu, 8 Dec 2016, Matt Smith wrote: MS> The recommended replacements are ports-mgmt/synth and MS> ports-mgmt/poudriere. These build an entire package repository that MS> the pkg tool can use but they do so in clean chrooted environments, MS> and rebuild everything that's required to keep a consistent ABI. Synth MS> is more designed for a single live system like a desktop or a single MS> server, whereas poudriere is what the freebsd package build clusters MS> use and is more designed for that type of usage. Worth taking a MS> look. WB> These are package builders. Technically preferable, given adequate WB> disk space and memory, but not equivalent to portmaster. MS> It's a shame the handbook hasn't been updated to give this MS> information. WB> Which information, in particular? A section on Poudriere was WB> submitted, and I spent a fair amount of time editing it and getting WB> it in there. As far as Synth or other information, I'm not aware of WB> any pending Handbook or other documentation submissions. I apologize for the ambiguity. To repeat, I am not aware of any submissions expanding on the package builder documentation. There is currently no Synth documentation in the Handbook. Nor has any been submitted, again as far as I am aware. Please note that this is not an offer to help write or edit such documentation, just another example showing that removing mention of portmaster from the Handbook is premature. > (Incidentally he's not responded to it nor the PR). No. After handling the first "all mention of portmaster must be stamped out" PR, I did not feel capable of giving that additional PR the attention it deserved and left it for someone more motivated. Another committer has begun working on it recently. I am trying to assist them, with my goal being to make the section more modular so it is easier to add or remove port and package building tools and show the advantages and disadvantages of each. From owner-freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Tue Dec 20 01:07:10 2016 Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-ports@freebsd.org> Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20FB2C87636 for <freebsd-ports@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org>; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 01:07:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd.contact@marino.st) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A26618DE for <freebsd-ports@freebsd.org>; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 01:07:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd.contact@marino.st) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 069CEC87634; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 01:07:10 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ports@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 048E3C87633 for <ports@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org>; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 01:07:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd.contact@marino.st) Received: from shepard.synsport.com (mail.synsport.com [208.69.230.148]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA5FA18DD for <ports@FreeBSD.org>; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 01:07:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd.contact@marino.st) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ip72-204-83-236.fv.ks.cox.net [72.204.83.236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by shepard.synsport.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89CBF43BD7; Mon, 19 Dec 2016 19:05:56 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Subscription for committer To: Warren Block <wblock@wonkity.com> References: <b21222a1-4940-1a44-0693-8c7803798a58@marino.st> <20161217193514.GA22107@lonesome.com> <ef894560-2bf7-919d-5de2-dd92c9bfe476@marino.st> <cffaad8d-705c-de7a-1087-3dfb2f1c590c@passap.ru> <dfd5d40b-a1e6-1fdc-d55c-0f133e715915@marino.st> <alpine.BSF.2.20.1612191629070.94020@wonkity.com> Cc: Boris Samorodov <bsam@passap.ru>, Mark Linimon <linimon@lonesome.com>, "ports@FreeBSD.org Ports" <ports@FreeBSD.org> From: John Marino <freebsd.contact@marino.st> Reply-To: marino@freebsd.org Message-ID: <c8521390-3d71-e720-d59b-e052524beed3@marino.st> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 19:07:06 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.20.1612191629070.94020@wonkity.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 161219-1, 12/19/2016), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD <freebsd-ports.freebsd.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-ports>, <mailto:freebsd-ports-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/>; List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-ports@freebsd.org> List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-ports-request@freebsd.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports>, <mailto:freebsd-ports-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 01:07:10 -0000 On 12/19/2016 18:36, Warren Block wrote: > On Mon, 19 Dec 2016, John Marino wrote: > >> On 12/19/2016 04:18, Boris Samorodov wrote: >>> 17.12.2016 22:40, John Marino пишет: >>> >>>> I am not subscribed to the mail list >>> >>> A port's committer is not subscribed to the ports@ ML? >>> Is it a joke? >>> >> >> I don't want to participate in this list. The only reason I'm stuck >> on this topic is because Warren said he wasn't aware of any PRs to >> correct the handbook and it was important to inform him. > > Here is the full quote: > > On Thu, 8 Dec 2016, Matt Smith wrote: > > MS> The recommended replacements are ports-mgmt/synth and > MS> ports-mgmt/poudriere. These build an entire package repository that > MS> the pkg tool can use but they do so in clean chrooted environments, > MS> and rebuild everything that's required to keep a consistent ABI. > Synth MS> is more designed for a single live system like a desktop or a > single MS> server, whereas poudriere is what the freebsd package build > clusters MS> use and is more designed for that type of usage. Worth > taking a > MS> look. > > WB> These are package builders. Technically preferable, given adequate > WB> disk space and memory, but not equivalent to portmaster. > > MS> It's a shame the handbook hasn't been updated to give this MS> > information. > > WB> Which information, in particular? A section on Poudriere was WB> > submitted, and I spent a fair amount of time editing it and getting WB> > it in there. As far as Synth or other information, I'm not aware of WB> > any pending Handbook or other documentation submissions. > > I apologize for the ambiguity. To repeat, I am not aware of any > submissions expanding on the package builder documentation. There is > currently no Synth documentation in the Handbook. Nor has any been > submitted, again as far as I am aware. Please note that this is not an > offer to help write or edit such documentation, just another example > showing that removing mention of portmaster from the Handbook is premature. > >> (Incidentally he's not responded to it nor the PR). > > No. After handling the first "all mention of portmaster must be stamped > out" PR, I did not feel capable of giving that additional PR the > attention it deserved and left it for someone more motivated. Another > committer has begun working on it recently. I am trying to assist them, > with my goal being to make the section more modular so it is easier to > add or remove port and package building tools and show the advantages > and disadvantages of each. And since then an influential former member of portmgr has opined that "compare and contrast" is not needed, but in fact the reference should just be removed. The presence or lack of reference synth material in the handbook itself doesn't justify the presence or removal of material for portmaster. It's not really related. I mean, portmaster is judged on its own merit and that judgement is definitely not premature. The PR stalled for a month and at its simplest was the removal of a single sentence. It doesn't appear anybody was working on it despite it being solvable trivially. The section of the conversation concerned the impression that portmaster is officially recommended, and that has to be stamped out per previous decision whether you agree with that decision or not, and I wanted to make sure you were 100% aware of that PR. As an aside, the reason I have been reluctant to write new sections of handbook is because trivial PRs like this one aren't getting processed, nor another, more significant one that I wrote. It's a natural reaction to stop attempting to contribute when previous contributions don't get "attention they deserve". John --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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