From owner-freebsd-doc Sat May 15 6:26:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Received: from mail.yk.rim.or.jp (mail.yk.rim.or.jp [202.247.130.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6141414E9D for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 06:26:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from k-horik@yk.rim.or.jp) Received: from localhost (ppp914.yk.rim.or.jp [202.247.185.165]) by mail.yk.rim.or.jp (8.8.8/3.6W-RIMNET-98-06-09) with ESMTP id WAA29327; Sat, 15 May 1999 22:26:00 +0900 (JST) To: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk Cc: ache@nagual.pp.ru, ru-freebsd-doc@freebsd.ru, doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-translate@ngo.org.uk, hanai@jp.freebsd.org From: Kazuo Horikawa Subject: Re: [RU-DOC] FDP Directory Reorganization In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 14 May 1999 20:43:02 +0100" <19990514204302.B43389@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <19990514204302.B43389@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on Emacs 19.34 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary="--Next_Part(Sat_May_15_21:51:55_1999_518)--" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990515222516E.k-horik@yk.rim.or.jp> Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 22:25:16 +0900 X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 360 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ----Next_Part(Sat_May_15_21:51:55_1999_518)-- Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Nik Clayton Subject: Re: [RU-DOC] FDP Directory Reorganization Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 20:43:02 +0100 > Two questions. > > First, what do the _JP, _BN, and _TW signify? Could they be dropped from > the name? I realise that the locale/ directory they allow you to > differentiate between "Chinese (China)" and "Chinese (Taiwan)". But is > that distinction useful for the documentation? > > Second, we used to have a doc/ja_JP.EUC/ directory, and it was removed in > favour of a straight doc/ja/ directory. Why? It looks like this has been > gone over at least once before in the past. I want to be sure I'm not > repeating past mistakes. Attached please find a discussion about ja versus ja_JP.EUC. # I did not make a digest of attached articles, in order to avoid # including my misunderstandings. Sorry! I personally think that `_JP' is not significant for Japanese documents (which exist in /doc/ja) and only `ja' is sufficient. -- Kazuo Horikawa ----Next_Part(Sat_May_15_21:51:55_1999_518)-- Content-Type: Message/Rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: from jaz.jp.freebsd.org (jaz.jp.freebsd.org [133.11.156.38]) by mail.yk.rim.or.jp (8.8.5/3.4Wbeta6-rim1.1) with ESMTP id VAA19133; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:00:38 +0900 (JST) Received: by jaz.jp.freebsd.org (8.8.8+3.0Wbeta7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA11378 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:00:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA06655; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 03:58:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.6); Thu, 22 Jan 1998 03:58:27 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA06647 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 03:58:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hitiij.hitachi.co.jp (root@hitiij.hitachi.co.jp [133.145.224.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA06641; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 03:58:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from horikawa@isrd.hitachi.co.jp) Received: from isrdgw.isrd.hitachi.co.jp by hitiij.hitachi.co.jp (8.8.5+2.7Wbeta5/3.5W-hitiij) id UAA14043; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:48:01 +0900 (JST) Received: from [133.144.95.172] by isrdgw.isrd.hitachi.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4W/2.7W-ISRD) id UAA00594; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:57:47 +0900 Message-Id: <199801221157.UAA00594@isrdgw.isrd.hitachi.co.jp> To: jfieber@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, man-jp-core@jp.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Proposal to put Japanese online manuals into freefall CVS repository In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:16:12 JST." <199801150816.RAA23004@mail.yk.rim.or.jp> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:57:24 +0900 From: Kazuo HORIKAWA Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org X-UIDL: 7bf7b788c2e456d31adce14fba8d8ad6 Dear John Fieber, Is the proposal to import Japanese online manuals into CVS repository (doc/ja_JP.EUC/man) acceptable? I would like to ask you this question, because you are the Documentation Project Manager. P.S. I asked Satoshi Asami and Hiroyuki Hanai to be committers of Japanese online manuals if the proposal is accepted. They said OK. Best Regards, Kazuo Horikawa >>>>> Kazuo Horikawa wrote: > Hello. I am from the jpman project. We translate FreeBSD online > manuals into Japanese and distribute them. > Section 1 and 8 online manuals in Japanese, based on 2.2.2-RELEASE, > have been distributed through the "port" ja-man-doc-2.2.2. Now, we > want to distribute them through "freefall CVS repository", because > centralization of FreeBSD related information benefits FreeBSD users. > Please review attached proposal and give me suggestion. Thanks in > advance. ----Next_Part(Sat_May_15_21:51:55_1999_518)-- Content-Type: Message/Rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: from jaz.jp.freebsd.org (jaz.jp.freebsd.org [133.11.156.38]) by mail.yk.rim.or.jp (8.8.5/3.4Wbeta6-rim1.1) with ESMTP id AAA07357; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:04:06 +0900 (JST) Received: by jaz.jp.freebsd.org (8.8.8+3.0Wbeta7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA17916 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:04:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA19399; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:00:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.6); Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:00:58 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA19392 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:00:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA19384 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:00:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jfieber@indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA10691; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:00:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:00:41 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Kazuo HORIKAWA cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, man-jp-core@jp.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Proposal to put Japanese online manuals into freefall CVS repository In-Reply-To: <199801221157.UAA00594@isrdgw.isrd.hitachi.co.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org X-UIDL: 0fa4b3738503c6a69fe79eb04613efe9 On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Kazuo HORIKAWA wrote: > Is the proposal to import Japanese online manuals into CVS repository > (doc/ja_JP.EUC/man) acceptable? I would like to ask you this > question, because you are the Documentation Project Manager. I would like to resolve the ja versus ja_JP.EUC question first, but otherwise that sounds fine. The problem coming down the pipe with the full locale specification is cases where there may be numerous locales for any given language. Right now there are 4 de locales, 4 en locales, 4 fr locales, 2 it locales, and 2 nl locales that differ only in the country specification. While genuine language/dialect differences do exist in some cases, how likely is it that de_CH is going to produce a different set of translations that de_DE? Encoding may still be an issue, but how big of an issue? In the web/mail/news environment, documents can be self-identifying. Can a man program detect EUC versus SJIS input and convert on-the-fly to the active locale encoding if necessary? (Am I correct in believing that EUC -> SJIS -> EUC is a "lossless" conversion?) I have also been pondering the implications moving the english docs (and web pages) into an en subdirectory. In the web context, URLs without a language qualifier could be redirected to the language of the mirror's choice. -john ----Next_Part(Sat_May_15_21:51:55_1999_518)-- Content-Type: Message/Rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: from jaz.jp.freebsd.org (jaz.jp.freebsd.org [133.11.156.38]) by mail.yk.rim.or.jp (8.8.5/3.4Wbeta6-rim1.1) with ESMTP id LAA11751; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:35:39 +0900 (JST) Received: by jaz.jp.freebsd.org (8.8.8+3.0Wbeta7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA19806 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:35:36 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA16408; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:32:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.6); Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:32:20 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA16400 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:32:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp (tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp [202.239.16.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA16393 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:32:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hanai@astec.co.jp) Received: from amont.astec.co.jp (amont.astec.co.jp [172.20.10.1]) by tokyonet-entrance.astec.co.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/3.6W-astecMX2.3) with ESMTP id LAA05845; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:32:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (elpibe.astec.co.jp [172.20.21.82]) by amont.astec.co.jp (8.7.6/3.6Wbeta5-astecMX2.4) with ESMTP id LAA07644; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:32:37 +0900 (JST) To: man-jp-core@jp.freebsd.org, jfieber@indiana.edu Cc: horikawa@isrd.hitachi.co.jp, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [man-jp-core 939] Re: Proposal to put Japanese online manuals into freefall CVS repository From: Hiroyuki HANAI In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:00:41 -0500 (EST)" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.92.4 on Emacs 19.34 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19980123113152P.hanai@astec.co.jp> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:31:52 +0900 X-Dispatcher: imput version 971024 Lines: 31 Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org X-UIDL: 5b43a0653ed9383e24ca75ce2c5183a6 On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, John Fieber wrote: > I would like to resolve the ja versus ja_JP.EUC question first, > but otherwise that sounds fine. I think that members in Japanese documetation group will agree with John's idea. # Sorry to be late. > Encoding may still be an issue, but how big of an issue? In the > web/mail/news environment, documents can be self-identifying. Can In the mail/news environment, there exists a rule that we must use ISO-2022-JP in encoding Japanese characters. > a man program detect EUC versus SJIS input and convert on-the-fly > to the active locale encoding if necessary? (Am I correct in Anyone cannot resolve EUC and SJIS explicitly. :-( # There is an overlapping region in the two encondings. Well, I think a man program doesn't have to detect the character encodings because we can make a rule that man pages should be EUC-encoded when Japanese characters appears in them. > believing that EUC -> SJIS -> EUC is a "lossless" conversion?) You are right. It's a lossless conversion. -- Hiroyuki HANAI =-= Be cool! =-= hanai@jp.FreeBSD.ORG ----Next_Part(Sat_May_15_21:51:55_1999_518)-- Content-Type: Message/Rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: from jaz.jp.freebsd.org (jaz.jp.freebsd.org [133.11.156.38]) by mail.yk.rim.or.jp (8.8.5/3.4Wbeta6-rim1.1) with ESMTP id NAA04407; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:13:51 +0900 (JST) Received: by jaz.jp.freebsd.org (8.8.8+3.0Wbeta7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA23952 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:13:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA23718; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:09:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.6); Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:09:17 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23709 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:09:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hitiij.hitachi.co.jp (root@hitiij.hitachi.co.jp [133.145.224.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA23697 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:09:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from horikawa@isrd.hitachi.co.jp) Received: from isrdgw.isrd.hitachi.co.jp by hitiij.hitachi.co.jp (8.8.5+2.7Wbeta5/3.5W-hitiij) id MAA28362; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:58:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from [133.144.95.172] by isrdgw.isrd.hitachi.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4W/2.7W-ISRD) id NAA14486; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:08:34 +0900 Message-Id: <199801230408.NAA14486@isrdgw.isrd.hitachi.co.jp> To: Hiroyuki HANAI Cc: John Fieber , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, man-jp-core@jp.freebsd.org Subject: Re: [man-jp-core 939] Re: Proposal to put Japanese online manuals into freefall CVS repository In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:31:52 JST." <19980123113152P.hanai@astec.co.jp> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:08:15 +0900 From: Kazuo HORIKAWA Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org X-UIDL: 3ea17758625b3b82419228433d9f0103 On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, John Fieber wrote: > > On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, John Fieber wrote: > > I would like to resolve the ja versus ja_JP.EUC question first, > > but otherwise that sounds fine. >>>>> Hiroyuki HANAI writes: > I think that members in Japanese documetation group will agree > with John's idea. > # Sorry to be late. I think John Fieber want to put Japanese documents under doc/ja/, German documents under doc/de/, English documents under doc/en/, and so on. I agree with this idea. > > a man program detect EUC versus SJIS input and convert on-the-fly > > to the active locale encoding if necessary? (Am I correct in > Anyone cannot resolve EUC and SJIS explicitly. :-( > # There is an overlapping region in the two encondings. > Well, I think a man program doesn't have to detect the character > encodings because we can make a rule that man pages should be > EUC-encoded when Japanese characters appears in them. All FreeBSD man pages in Japanese are EUC-encoded. And I want to continue to maintain only EUC-encoded man pages. I do not say that I do not want to support ja_JP.SJIS locale. I think that ja_JP.SJIS locale can be supported by man program even if Japanese man pages are EUC-encoded. -- Kazuo Horikawa ----Next_Part(Sat_May_15_21:51:55_1999_518)-- Content-Type: Message/Rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: from jaz.jp.freebsd.org (jaz.jp.freebsd.org [133.11.156.38]) by mail.yk.rim.or.jp (8.8.5/3.4Wbeta6-rim1.1) with ESMTP id NAA05830; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:18:37 +0900 (JST) Received: by jaz.jp.freebsd.org (8.8.8+3.0Wbeta7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA24370 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:18:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA24474; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:17:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.6); Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:17:02 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24466 for freebsd-doc-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:17:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA24461 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:17:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jfieber@indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA01841; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:13:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:13:23 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Kazuo HORIKAWA cc: Hiroyuki HANAI , freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, man-jp-core@jp.freebsd.org Subject: Re: [man-jp-core 939] Re: Proposal to put Japanese online manuals into freefall CVS repository In-Reply-To: <199801230408.NAA14486@isrdgw.isrd.hitachi.co.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org X-UIDL: c943eddf9fa62bea5432a4dc0c661e86 On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Kazuo HORIKAWA wrote: > I do not say that I do not want to support ja_JP.SJIS locale. I think > that ja_JP.SJIS locale can be supported by man program even if > Japanese man pages are EUC-encoded. That is exactly what I was wondering, thanks. -john ----Next_Part(Sat_May_15_21:51:55_1999_518)---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message