Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:49:15 +0200 From: Andriy Gapon <avg@icyb.net.ua> To: Jeremy Chadwick <koitsu@FreeBSD.org> Cc: Nate Eldredge <neldredge@math.ucsd.edu>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, FreeBSD Stable <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org>, freebsd-usb@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ukbd attachment and root mount Message-ID: <491AD0CB.8050309@icyb.net.ua> In-Reply-To: <20081112123315.GA24907@icarus.home.lan> References: <4911BA93.9030006@icyb.net.ua> <491ABFCD.3060309@icyb.net.ua> <Pine.GSO.4.64.0811120352100.1597@zeno.ucsd.edu> <491AC502.9000507@icyb.net.ua> <20081112121410.GA24629@icarus.home.lan> <491ACA19.2040008@icyb.net.ua> <20081112123315.GA24907@icarus.home.lan>
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on 12/11/2008 14:33 Jeremy Chadwick said the following: > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 02:20:41PM +0200, Andriy Gapon wrote: >> on 12/11/2008 14:14 Jeremy Chadwick said the following: >>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 01:58:58PM +0200, Andriy Gapon wrote: >> [snip] >>>> 2. if ukbd driver is not attached then I don't see any way USB keyboard >>>> would work in non-legacy way >>> Regarding #2: at which stage? boot0/boot2/loader require an AT or PS/2 >>> keyboard to work. None of these stages use ukbd(4) or anything -- there >>> is no kernel loaded at this point!! Meaning: if you have a USB keyboard, >>> your BIOS will need to have a "USB Legacy" option to cause it to act as >>> a PS/2 keyboard, for typing in boot0/boot2/loader to work. >>> >>> Device hints are for kernel drivers, once the kernel is loaded. >> Jeremy, >> >> I understand all of this. >> In subject line and earlier messages I say that I am interested in >> mountroot prompt - the prompt where kernel can ask about what device to >> use for root filesystem. >> Essentially I would like kernel to recognize USB keyboard (and disable >> all the legacy stuff if needed) before it prompts for the root device. > > I fully understand that fact. However, I don't see the logic in that > statement. You should be able to remove and add a keyboard at any time > and be able to type immediately. Meaning: I don't see why when the > keyboard recognition is performed (e.g. before printing mountroot or > after) matters. It should not. I think this is a red herring. I think that this does matter because keyboard recognition is performed after the 'mounting from' log line *only if* root mount is done automatically. If there is an actual interactive prompt then recognition is not performed, at least I do not see any relevant lines on the screen and I am stuck at the prompt. > I've seen the problem where I have a fully functional USB keyboard in > boot0/boot2/loader For me it even randomly dies at these stages. I reported this in a different thread. But this should not be related to kernel behavior. >and in multi-user, For me this always works. > but when booting into single-user For me this always works. > or when getting a mountroot prompt, the keyboard does not function. > When the mountroot prompt is printed (before or after ukbd attached) > makes no difference for me in this scenario -- I tested it many times. For me ukbd lines are never printed if I get actual interactive mountroot prompt. > It's very possible that "something" (kbdcontrol?) is getting run only > during late stages of multi-user, which makes the keyboard work. But > prior to that "something" being run (but AFTER boot2/loader), the > keyboard is not truly usable. For me this is not true. My keyboard always works after ukbd lines appear on screen. > I hope everyone here is also aware of that fact that not all keyboards > are created equal. Case in point (and this reason is exactly why I > am purchasing a native PS/2 keyboard, as USB4BSD doesn't work with > all USB keyboards right now): For me this is not an option, no PS/2 ports. > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2008-November/000219.html > > The bottom line: > > FreeBSD cannot be reliably used with a USB keyboard in all > circumstances.And that is a very sad reality, because 90% of the > keyboards you find on the consumer and enterprise market are USB -- > native PS/2 keyboards are now a scarcity. I agree that this is a sad reality but only for boot stages where we depend on external entity named BIOS to help us. This doesn't have to be a sad reality once kernel takes control. USB support in boot chain - I don't know - this would be great of course but that's a lot of code. -- Andriy Gapon
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