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Date:      Fri, 23 Feb 2001 21:31:17 -0600
From:      Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org>
To:        Sven Brandenburg <sven@crashme.org>
Cc:        questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: 4.2-STABLE weird behaviour without swap
Message-ID:  <14999.11013.348462.189477@guru.mired.org>
In-Reply-To: <54384197@toto.iv>

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Sven Brandenburg <sven@crashme.org> types:
> Is it possible that FreeBSD has some very strange problems
> when the system is configured without any swap partitions?

Yup. Running out of virtual is bad juju, and probably not very well
tested.

> 3 weeks ago, i threw another DIMM into that box, having 1G of
> memory now. At the same time I decided that this amount of mem
> should be sufficient and disabled swap. The main service on this 
> host eats huge ammount of memory during its operation but for
> this application its better to get an "out of memory" and a 
> following application crash (and restart) than having the 
> performance penalty of a swapping system.

Let's think about this. Until you've used all your real memory, there
isn't going to be any difference between having swap and not having
swap (unless you've turned on NO_SWAPPING in the kernel, in which case
you'll have an extra bit of real because of the code you diked from
the kernel). So you do something that runs you out of real memory. In
the situation you've got now, your application crashes, and the system
may do strange things as well do to being in an unusual state. If you
left swapping turned on, some page the system figures it won't need
for a long time would get swapped out to make room for the running
application. This slows down the current application when it needs RAM
- you have to swap something out - and the applications whose pages
got swapped out if they ever want those pages again (and it may be the
same application, and those pages may never be wanted again).

In other words, you've turned a fail-soft situation (things slow down
when you run out of real) into a fail-hard situtation (things die when
you run out of real), possibly with no performance change before
failure. Is that really what you want to do?

> Is it generally a stupid idea to have no swap at all?

It's like running -current - you *really* need to know what you're
doing. 

	<mike
--
Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org>			http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.

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