From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 16 12:28:40 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA2083372B1 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 12:28:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cknipe@savage.za.org) Received: from mail-yb1-xb32.google.com (mail-yb1-xb32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b32]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49mSD76TV6z3cqj for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 12:28:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cknipe@savage.za.org) Received: by mail-yb1-xb32.google.com with SMTP id n123so10708983ybf.11 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 05:28:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=savage-za-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=2ZPO/r4gAonQ0FQ9km4q6AA49fNdn7JVLVepKfAJWnQ=; b=A70GK3AEtFtVLx0XmuEgaGK+wUKwHLTOxZYfvc8+0ub0ZvN2pcBVkBuOvElA99Zic5 hrvtWTlm4evm0UBvBFP6eBGaY6FxdRNIjj13TszU+ZI4uaFzqJNiZF+WvE/V2WI+rTKC iZvUtR+gJXDMc5qgzxDx+j43bjgVZQi2tUHn7R37Mazilgfis9Xf+yDoilMKusFHY8cX gvOUtbbS9DqAN+0huegyHbjdGM/Jhv1JjytWfD+QQFOzUF5thImrNB+clAPm/GRfkK8x 29wjPKTgxzXpyoLoNBvJbpj6SGcVzNW0moU1KfKfujH60wJr7kCRRgstkOBjUufW/hI5 KRag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2ZPO/r4gAonQ0FQ9km4q6AA49fNdn7JVLVepKfAJWnQ=; b=aDLcH/hcWqCdiap7/i9HHOTOoZO8E2LvdWQAEzp6KBYwMxEFjJy7OR7GA9+wKfOQUq 6Ax2BNSVdjdV3i/Ss+eHwlNNLm29X482TOwH1YrV77Zwwi8SoZT7wxVjjp0R9s3dKAQw mbkVt3xOL/kQ6GzwaReR+ewh0UQJvPxecKQWn8Ai/3XKL5c6bmX+jDFh2Wdyja3DZDH+ ZV5FgCmhoPRfTgD6jM0oKem3L0p9fNDKkB6dL8aO7o6vKE7n/CaaOwwugMDpOwdgMZMN +M2LnonXvam7Ka0l2QhvPyAPn0XVKmNq2MsVrd1oc/41B8jcTqQPeP5L1NLDKG1RZ04i aMKg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533v233Xjy7NEmyJfIdALwi90wJ0faqlavw7nAGVpHpmCaS+5KOR 8rH5rgrTuEfbcUeNM/0BMhhF3G5Yxn1b/qzEPbTiD4imd6k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxeR3sM02CFnbsBtFrwznJFxfVmxZL2r3cq9vuvP4UW+tSYQ2YqVD9RSOfsa7oOjrDVJ906SjxK5uynHHicy/E= X-Received: by 2002:a25:d755:: with SMTP id o82mr3460273ybg.166.1592310518822; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 05:28:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200613154409.GA89618@neutralgood.org> <13115.1592302784@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <20200616071153.00006f4d@seibercom.net> <20200616075548.000066f1@seibercom.net> <20200616140416.bd7b8bf2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200616142043.7d599458.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20200616142043.7d599458.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Chris Knipe Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:28:27 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Mailing List Etiquette was freebsd vs. netbsd To: Polytropon Cc: FreeBSD - X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49mSD76TV6z3cqj X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=savage-za-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=A70GK3AE; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of cknipe@savage.za.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::b32 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=cknipe@savage.za.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.06 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[savage-za-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.05)[-1.051]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.004]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[savage.za.org]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[1]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[savage-za-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::b32:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.80)[-0.805]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[savage@savage.za.org,cknipe@savage.za.org]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[savage@savage.za.org,cknipe@savage.za.org] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 12:28:40 -0000 > > > > [...] and text based > > emails with crappy fonts. > > I don't understand this. It's rather the other way round > when you have HTML-based emails that force a specific > unreadable font face and font size, and your MUA cannot > be configured for a bigger minimum font size. In text > mails, it's the _MUA's_ responsibility to offer the best > font that the user (!) desires; in text-based MUAs, this > responsibility is moved to the terminal emulator. Luckily, > both GUI MUAs and terminals today offer you to change the > font to whatever you want - and this option has been there > for decades. This is, in my opinion, not a problem with > the mail (being text), but wuth the MUA (using unusable > fonts and settings). > > Fonts are not a matter of normal text email. > > They _can_ be a problem with HTML email. > > (I won't discuss in how far a mail client is supposed to > contain a HTML rendering engine, epsecially in the absence > of normal multipart "text _and_ HTML" mail generation.) > https://imgur.com/a/eW01Zc2 Your own message - a very good example of what's wrong with it. Straight from gmail. In outlook (for example, which has a narrower reading plane), it will be even worse, as even -more- scrolling would be required. We don't use 640x480 monitors anymore (hell, not even our SSH sessions run at these low resolutions and 80 col / 25 rows anymore) - we're way past that as well... Whilst I now have to scroll up and down to read your message, I could have seen your entire message in one screen without the need to scroll up and down. What's the most efficient? I guess that's a matter of opinion too. I hear what you are saying, and I am by no means suggesting sending a 200kb email, with 10mb of HTML embedded in it either, but we are WAY past, 80 col, 25 rows... It would be interesting to see how 80x25 actually looks on today's say, 34" monitors (or whatever the entry level monitors are these days) -- Regards, Chris Knipe