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Date:      Sat, 5 Jun 1999 11:33:12 -0700 (PDT)
From:      Matthew Dillon <dillon@apollo.backplane.com>
To:        "David Schwartz" <davids@webmaster.com>
Cc:        "Peter Wemm" <peter@netplex.com.au>, "Poul-Henning Kamp" <phk@critter.freebsd.dk>, <current@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   Re: RE: net.inet.tcp.always_keepalive on as default ? 
Message-ID:  <199906051833.LAA15517@apollo.backplane.com>
References:   <000201beaf7e$e0e8dd10$021d85d1@whenever.youwant.to>

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:	There is no logical reason for a well-designed web server to enable
:keepalives. Of course, they don't hurt anything.
:
:...
:
:	Agreed. Telnetd is the exception, keepalives are great for it. For
:everything else, almost, data timeouts make far more sense. And keepalives
:will do nothing, but won't hurt anything.
:
:	As I have said before, any application that does not implement data
:timeouts for all states, and does not enable keepalives is BROKEN.

    You are missing the point, big time.

    There are hundreds of programmers writing hundreds of servers, most 
    written by third-parties.  New ones pop up every day.  Nobody
    is going to go through and make sure all of them turn on keepalives. 
    Nobody is going to go and try to contact all the authors involved to
    try to get them to implement their own timeouts.  There are, in fact,
    many servers where implementing a timeout is *inappropriate*.

    ssh, rsh, and telnet for example.  nntp is an example of a server where
    the timeout depends on the use.  Some ISP's might want to implement a 
    timeout, others might not.  At BEST I decided to *not* have a timeout...
    people can stay connected and idle for hours if they want.

    Your 'solution' is no solution at all.  You aren't thinking through the
    problem carefully enough.

    The Keepalive capability exists for a reason.  The original reasons for
    not turning them on by default all those years ago no longer exist, and
    the only reasons people come up with now are extremely shallow and 
    uninformed.

    I have yet to hear a single informed opinion against turning on
    keepalives.  

    All I hear is mob-mentality stuff: people with opinions not backed by
    real facts, or people with opinions based on assumptions that are 
    incorrect.

					-Matt
					Matthew Dillon 
					<dillon@backplane.com>


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