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Date:      Thu, 07 Mar 2002 10:24:39 -0800
From:      "Kevin Oberman" <oberman@es.net>
To:        Cliff Sarginson <csfbsd@raggedclown.net>
Cc:        questions@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Softupdates on root in 4.5-RELEASE 
Message-ID:  <20020307182440.F21725D06@ptavv.es.net>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Mar 2002 06:33:50 %2B0100." <20020307053350.GA2142@raggedclown.net> 

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> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 06:33:50 +0100
> From: Cliff Sarginson <csfbsd@raggedclown.net>
> Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG
> 
> On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 10:04:45PM -0500, Brian T. Schellenberger wrote:
> > On Wednesday 06 March 2002 09:55 am, Cliff Sarginson wrote:
> > | On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 09:48:16AM -0500, Brian T. Schellenberger wrote:
> > | > On Wednesday 06 March 2002 09:35 am, Cliff Sarginson wrote:
> > | > | On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 03:19:26AM -0600, Mike Meyer wrote:
> > | > | > I personally make the root partitoin larger, enable soft updates, and
> > | > | > use SCSI disks with proper tagged queuing support so the write cache
> > | > | > isn't a problem.
> > | > |
> > | > | Can you clarify this a bit.
> > | > | With a SCSI disk, tagged queuing etc, soft-updates are not helpful ?
> > | > | yes or no ?
> > | >
> > | > No.  That is, they ARE helpful.
> > | >
> > | > But with tagged queuing on a SCSI disk, write caching isn't dangerous, so
> > | > there's no reason not to use it.
> > | >
> > | > With an IDE disk, write caching IS dangerous.
> > | >
> > | > Another advantage of SCSI.
> > |
> > | Ok, so currently this BSD system runs off SCSI with soft-updates on
> > | everything, except root.
> > |
> > | Would you recommend that optimal performance would be achieved, without
> > | danger, by enabling write-caching as well ?
> > 
> > Yes, if you have tagged queuing.  Check your messages (dmeg).
> > 
> Mounting root from ufs:/dev/da0s2a
> da0 at sym0 bus 0 target 6 lun 0
> da0: <QUANTUM ATLAS_V_18_WLS 0230> Fixed Direct Access SCSI-3 device
> da0: 80.000MB/s transfers (40.000MHz, offset 31, 16bit), Tagged Queueing
> Enabled
> 
> > | And what would you recommend therefore with root, which has neither
> > | enabled at the moment ?
> > 
> > Provided it's reasonably large (say, over 100M).
> > 
> Yes it is larger than that.
> 
> > But you can't enable/disable write-caching on a per-partition basis anyway.
> Yes, of course.
> > 
> Ok, that sounds good.
> Mmm. I am curious and will try this. 
> One thing for anybody considering wanting to go broke in a hurry, I
> personally can verify that SCSI makes a *huge* difference on a system.
> Buildworld, compared to doing it on my IDE drives, just blinks by in
> comparison. If this may make it even faster I will be impressed :)

Make sure that you have options UFS_DIRHASH in your kernel and delete
and re-cvsup your entire /usr/src tree. This can make a really big
difference in buildworld times.

> But the price differential is phenomenal ...at least here in Holland :(.
> 
> e.g 40GB   7200 ATA 100   = 138 Euros (c. $160)
>     36.7GB 7200 SCSI U160 = 389 Euros (c. $480)

Ouch! I see prices a bit closer, but SCSI is a LOT more $$$.

R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer
Energy Sciences Network (ESnet)
Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab)
E-mail: oberman@es.net			Phone: +1 510 486-8634

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