From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jun 8 13:26:36 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48AE032F8AA for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2020 13:26:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49gYtg4XVBz4VWY for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2020 13:26:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from [192.168.43.231] (unknown [172.58.139.252]) (Authenticated sender: galtsev) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4660C4E669; Mon, 8 Jun 2020 08:26:35 -0500 (CDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Subject: Re: freebsd vs. netbsd From: Valeri Galtsev In-Reply-To: <62d10000-e068-922e-23bd-f7a61e7a4e89@anatoli.ws> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 08:26:33 -0500 Cc: Wesley , FreeBSD Mailing List Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <171506d5-19aa-359e-c21d-f07257c52ebd@freenetMail.de> <62d10000-e068-922e-23bd-f7a61e7a4e89@anatoli.ws> To: Anatoli X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49gYtg4XVBz4VWY X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none); spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu has no SPF policy when checking 128.135.20.70) smtp.mailfrom=galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.05 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[172.58.139.252:received]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.31)[-0.315]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.31)[-0.309]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.03)[-0.027]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2020 13:26:36 -0000 > On Jun 7, 2020, at 11:26 PM, Anatoli wrote: >=20 > IMO >=20 > * FreeBSD: servers (performance, stability, relative security, zfs), > competes directly with Linux >=20 > * OpenBSD: routers/firewalls, desktops (the most secure OS The most secure=E2=80=A6 if you dismiss the fact that one of the = developer (who wrote network stack if my memory serves me) was = simultaneously receiving payments from one of three letter agencies for = several years. Valeri > and a really > good desktop, but its absence of server-class performance is its > weakest side + no zfs (just ffs2) and limited virtualization (no SMP) > so not suitable for any serious server load where absolute security = is > not a must). The king in its niche (paranoid security) >=20 > * NetBSD: toasters & freezers (runs on anything, otherwise not sure > what's the point :), competes with FreeBSD and Linux (and Linux now > supports more archs/platforms than Net). IMO no clear vision and thus > attracts too little resources both human and economic. IMO midterm = not > much hope for survival, same as DFly and smaller BSDs. >=20 > I believe that OS development is an economy of scale (doing things = more > efficiently or having other advantaged with increasing size) with a > tendency for a monopoly in the same niche. >=20 > There are some features that the larger players establish as a > commodity, but that are very time-intensive and complex to develop = (e.g. > virtualization, wifi ac and now ax). So what Linux implemented more = than > a decade ago, the BSDs are just catching up now. >=20 > Linux world had 2 "obstacles" to its almost flawless growth recently > (systemd and a ZFS alternative). Now that the things have almost = settled > up, if they don't commit any more serious errors I don't see how the > BSDs (except OpenBSD as it's not a direct competitor) could compete = with > it in the long term. >=20 > Now with ZoL/OpenZFS the long-term future even for FreeBSD is not that > clear (and the recent iX decisions [1] [2] are a clear sign). >=20 > [1] = https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/06/truenas-isnt-abandoning-bsd-but-it= -is-adopting-linux/ > [2] https://www.truenas.com/TrueOS-Discontinuation/ >=20 >=20 > On 7/6/20 22:35, Wesley wrote: >> greetings, >>=20 >> There were freebsd and netbsd (maybe others?) in BSD world. >> What points did they focus by design? >> what are their use scenes then? >>=20 >> Thank you. >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"