From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 27 18:07:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10342 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 18:07:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10335 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 18:07:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt2-126.HiWAAY.net [208.147.148.126]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA29043 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 20:07:41 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA21099 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 19:41:25 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199711280141.TAA21099@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Crapintosh bashing, was:Re: cdrecord In-reply-to: Message from Michael Porter of "Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:56:35 CST." <347DA642.A4344CCD@wavefront.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 19:41:24 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael Porter opened his big fat mouth and said: > > Good idea. > > > BTW I'm sure I'm not the only one disinterested in your opinions on > > > Macs. Another forum for that sort of post please. > > > > Sorry. I should have refrained, but its hard to resist the temptation to > > slam Macs...:) (no offence to anyone who likes Macs, although I doubt many > > FreeBSD'ers would use or like Macs) > > I agree, I didn't think any FreeBSDers liked Crapintoshes. My HP48GX runs > faster and smoother. Hey HP, how about a port of the HP48 software to > Crapintosh! HAHHAHA! I hate Crapintosh's too, whatever a Crapintosh is it sounds awful. But I love my Macintosh's, all 4 of them. And all 4 of my HP-41's, an HP-35, several HP-45's, and about 10 more HP calculators I've collected. > Hey, here's an idea, lets setup an old 386 with 4 megs of RAM in a Crapintosh > case, and setup FreeBSD on it, then install that window manager thats supposed > to be like a Mac, we'd have the > WORLD'S FASTEST MACINTOSH!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! > Ahhhhh, I feel better now. I hope I don't get banished off these mailing > lists for this, but I had to say it. I don't have anything against *people* > who use crapintoshes, I just can't understand why they would want to. This is the same kind of unreasoning crap on Linux email lists that caused me to look for something better than Linux. Generally the FreeBSD lists are a nice place to hang out with nice intelligent people. Generally, not always. > Here's my major grievences: > > 1:) I've heard they're hard to upgrade. I've never tried, so this could be > totally wrong Trivial to upgrade. The only jumper I've ever seen on a Mac I/O card was on a 3-Com built-for-Apple Ethernet card (NuBus) which had a jumper to select between AUI and BNC. And there never was a Plug-N-Pray config utility either. Tape, CDROM, and hard drives are very easy to attach. Printers are also very easy to attach and share, either by ethernet or LocalTalk. With the popularity of PCI, PC's are beginning to take the concept of multiple displays seriously. One day they may get to where Apple was in 1985 with the Mac II, where up to 6 monitors simply required 6 video cards to produce one large desktop spread across all the monitors. If you didn't like Apple's default layout of the monitors one could drag graphic scale models around to establish the relationship desired. Software development with two 19" monitors is pretty fun. In my case I was also laying out PCB's. Placing B&W schematics on my 19" greyscale monitor and multiple layer PCB artwork in color on another 19" was very handy. Ultimately I unhooked my 14" color monitor (3rd) because there were too many screens facing me. > 2:) Although I've heard that the PowerPC chip is *very* good (hey, it's made > by Motorola and IBM, it's got to be at least pretty good!) Comparing same > software on same price systems, and similar chip-clock-rate systems yields > better results on IBM compatibles (my tests and my friends) Run 68000 relocatable code on a 68040 Mac against anything-goes DOS code on a 486 and usually the 486 will look a bit better. Run the Bovine RC5-64 code on a PowerMac 604e and compare same against a PPro or P-II and the Mac wins handily. A G3 PowerMac beats everything. > 3:) Crapintoshes used to have superior graphing abilities. Not anymore. Microsoft (and Intergraph) Marketing Myth. Apple's WYSIWYG is superior. I'm talking about color matching and text alignment, screen to printer. Cutthroat 3D graphic card availability is much better for PC than Mac. I don't know if the 3D cards for PC's are faster than those for the Mac. Considering the nature of the PC market the PC 3D cards are probably much better at benchmarks than in real applications. The graphing 3D calculator Desk Accessory that ships with PowerMacs is one of the coolest tools I've ever seen. Wish I had that for Calculus in college. Doesn't require any special hardware (other than a PowerMac). > 4:) NO SHELL USE!!! AACK!! My friend (a Crapintosh supporter) says you can > buy software for shells. Hmmmm....I've never heard of any. MPW. Macintosh Programmer's Workbench, where every command line is in a file, and every file you edit is full of potential command lines. Press the Return key to move to the next line in the file. Press the Enter key to execute the line you just typed and insert its stdout at the current cursor. Select several lines and hit Enter to execute all the lines. MPW with 68k assembler used to be $100 SRP. I used Introl's 68HC11 C compiler under MPW to do a little 10k line project once. Metrowerks' Codewarrior has replaced Apple's internally produced MPW. I expect it includes the same MPW shell capabilities. Apparently Codewarrior is the the prefered (or only) development environment for the Palm Pilot. Its also a strong player in the Windows markets when someone is willing to bother looking beyond Microsoft. BeOS also uses Codewarrior. When I see Emacs users touting the abilities of their favorite do-everything editor I always think of MPW. There is an awful lot of good that has come from Apple and the Mac. I was glad to hear Rhapsody was taking a BSD slant. Give me a Mac, or give me Unix, preferably both. I have no use for Windows. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system.