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Date:      Fri, 8 Jun 2018 00:44:30 -0400
From:      Bryan Drewery <bdrewery@FreeBSD.org>
To:        rgrimes@freebsd.org
Cc:        Brad Davis <brd@freebsd.org>, Konstantin Belousov <kostikbel@gmail.com>, Eugene Grosbein <eugen@grosbein.net>, Alexander Leidinger <Alexander@leidinger.net>, Kyle Evans <kevans@freebsd.org>, src-committers <src-committers@freebsd.org>, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, svn-src-head@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: svn commit: r334617 - in head: . etc
Message-ID:  <CE039A85-2B92-40D4-BB1C-7409A5CCA994@FreeBSD.org>
In-Reply-To: <201806062035.w56KZhV8006721@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net>
References:  <201806062035.w56KZhV8006721@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net>

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> On Jun 6, 2018, at 16:35, Rodney W. Grimes <freebsd@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net=
> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, at 12:33 PM, Rodney W. Grimes wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018, at 1:28 PM, Konstantin Belousov wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 06, 2018 at 01:39:00AM +0700, Eugene Grosbein wrote:
>>>>>> 06.06.2018 1:26, Konstantin Belousov wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> I find it often very useful to do
>>>>>>>>> (cd src/etc/rc.d && make install)
>>>>>>>>> Same for defaults and several other directories which in fact
>>>>>>>>> contains> > >>> non-editable content.  Is this planned to keep wor=
king ?
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> The short answer is, no.  All rc.d scripts get moved to the src
>>>>>>>> of the program they start.> > >>
>>>>>>>> That said, if there is a big need for this, we can see about
>>>>>>>> options to keep them working.> > >>
>>>>>>>> What are you trying to accomplish when you do this?  Just verify
>>>>>>>> the rc.d scripts match your src tree?> > >
>>>>>>> I avoid mergemaster/etcupdate and whatever else. rc.d and /etc/rc,> >=
 > /etc/rc.subr /etc/rc.network are not suitable to etc, they are
>>>>>>> binaries> > > provided by the project not for the user editing.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> When upgrading the host, esp. on HEAD, i usually refresh scripts
>>>>>>> by this> > > procedure and avoid any editing and implied conflict re=
solution
>>>>>>> for real> > > configs.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Not being able to easily install clean copies of these scripts
>>>>>>> would> > > be very inconvenient and time consuming.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I found that "mergemaster -iFUP" deals with unchanged files
>>>>>> including mentioned rc* scripts just fine.> > That is, it automatical=
ly refreshes unchanged files without any
>>>>>> silly questions just for change of $FreeBSD$.>
>>>>> No, you missed the point.  Whatever nice is the handling of
>>>>> unchanged files,> use of mergemaster forces me to handle changed files=
, which is exactly> what I do not want/need to do.  Yes, I update crashboxes=
 very
>>>>> often, and> I want to get all new code, including the startup scripts,=
 when
>>>>> I update.
>>>> The startup scripts will be installed as part of installworld.
>>>=20
>>> So each installworld would wipe over the top of any localmod /etc/rc.d/=20=

>>> and other stuff
>>> that mght exist?
>>> One of the reasons that etc/Makefile is detached from Installword is so=20=

>>> that
>>> /etc does not get perturbuted unless specifically requested.
>>=20
>> Yes, this is by design.
>=20
> This is going to have a great amount of push back, and this is by your NEW=
 design,
> the existing design does not cause this pain.
>=20

This is my position as well. Some people may not like or agree that rc scrip=
ts are user modifiable but they are and have been =E2=80=9Cforever=E2=80=9D.=
 The fact that tools like mergemaster have handled merging of them, =E2=80=9C=
forever=E2=80=9D, makes this a huge POLA violation to suddenly be replacing t=
hem. I don=E2=80=99t see any benefits at all except to pissoff users.

Some of these planned changes for etc feel over zealous and under thought ou=
t or discussed.

Whatever people think about these topics we must consider POLA and not regre=
ssing people=E2=80=99s workflows for no benefit other than draconian ideals a=
bout what a user is allowed to modify.

>>=20
>> If people need custom tweaks for that stuff they should be upstreamed or m=
oved into /usr/local/etc/rc.d as a custom startup script.
>=20
> I doubt very much this is a practical solution.  I have changes that I dou=
bt
> belong in FreeBSD, and are not restricted to etc/rc.d.   And from reading
> this thread thus far so do others.
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> Rod Grimes                                                 rgrimes@freebsd=
.org
>=20




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