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Date:      Sat, 23 Jan 1999 16:13:03 +1100
From:      Sue Blake <sue@welearn.com.au>
To:        Chris Silva <ras@interaccess.com>
Cc:        Daniel Solin <solle@linux.nu>, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Helping others..
Message-ID:  <19990123161303.06522@welearn.com.au>
In-Reply-To: <000101be4674$c8f34790$0a00000a@wildrock>; from Chris Silva on Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 08:05:01PM -0600
References:  <36A8BF9E.FE8F9C5@home.se> <000101be4674$c8f34790$0a00000a@wildrock>

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On Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 08:05:01PM -0600, Chris Silva wrote:
> I also agree - Helping is a good thing.  I am a subscriber to the more
> popular FBSD newsgroups and as a newbie mewbie myself, can't even
> imagine asking what seems to be frivolous questions based on the
> topics I have seen in say, Current or Stable.

Of course. Those two lists are for people who have passed the
newbie question stage.

> I think we need a place where users such as myself can ask:
> What is a.out?
> What is ELF?
> Etc.

There is a place: freebsd-questions

> Just my thoughts.   BTW, I've been to FBSD on EFNet - There again, I
> try not to ask many questions (based on my lack of experience) with
> the like of Sue and Jordan there. I think you kinda catch my drift ;)

I sure do :-)

The #freebsd channel on efnet is not for support, and it's not the sort
of place you'd let your kid-sister go to alone either.
The #freebsd channel on undernet seems more support-oriented. We have
some newbies and near newbies hanging out there most of the time.
Dalnet might be good too. For other networks, play it by ear.

People who offer support generally want to do it on their own terms,
i.e., when and where they feel like it. It's in our interests to make
them keep feeling like it. They resent being pestered for support
during their "off" time. Ever had the experience of volunteering for
something and then being pressured into a whole lot of extra stuff?

I know you're gonna find this a bit hard to believe, but some of the
people who don't ever want to support anyone run FreeBSD. Some of them
drink coffee, and some use IRC. Neither coffee nor IRC turn people into
happy helpers.

FreeBSD-questions is *the* venue for support, to help keep a bit of
sanity about the place. If you want to encourage people to keep
offering support, you have to help them keep their work and play
activities separate or they'll just run away spitting.

Some newbies don't want to do anything other than ask for help all the
time and disappear when things are going well. Other newbies realise
they'll need help occasionally, but also want some time to interact
socially as equals, not feel like a charity case or a school kid the
whole time. We have this mailing list for that purpose.




Last year we had a few discussions here around the idea of
a #freebsdHelp IRC channel. We got into technical solutions, discussed
different networks, even the idea of setting up a special irc server.
It was all exciting for a while. Can you guess why nothing much happened?
Like many good sounding ideas, it relies on having enough competent
support people who are willing to commit to putting in the hours.
The "you know FreeBSD therefore you HAVE to answer me!!!" attitude does
little to increase the number of these people willing to keep helping.


If you thank them for their time on duty as helpers, and respect their
time when they are being non-helpers, you'll continue to get at least
as much support as what is offered now. Work their behinds off in
freebsd-questions by all means, but let them get a breather the rest of
the time or they'll only return the same level of respect.

If you really want an IRC channel for help, make it happen.
Just beware of any help you get there, because, unlike freebsd-questions,
anyone on IRC can tell you any rubbish and there's no-one
checking what they say. At the moment undernet's #freebsd doesn't look
too bad.


-- 

Regards,
        -*Sue*-


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