From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jun 8 14:25:27 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6339B331616 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2020 14:25:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from me@anatoli.ws) Received: from out-mx.anatoli.ws (out-mx.anatoli.ws [177.54.157.124]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "out-mx.anatoli.ws", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49gbBZ0mWYz4djM for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2020 14:25:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from me@anatoli.ws) Received: from [192.168.0.1] (unknown [192.168.0.1]) by out-mx.oprbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47FA31E00BCA; Mon, 8 Jun 2020 14:25:21 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=anatoli.ws; s=vnptcm0lqn; t=1591626322; bh=VsIBxN12Q4cO1kZjIDv8p+lP3QPcJui4rgNki2uRXEw=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=kAyYdjbtGAd1elnSJ8T+p2auQ8CsB841tGxfXGjgMxn0Ca0A7TTxuUgKM0htkOhYv ifaCWx6+K9LCM8ah20Efby69SFQJ4MytCNj8E8n/tc9cZADSVHB5gXXdn5tbeO1lfW Hd85QroYxoqJ5fmbLgIS+gypj2hVZPGdda3oTPoxi4BvK6ttx5x90YyBkdv2hq9wkY 3XfHsDlZZlNeyJInFJ1/qSrhUn0T1PW0gQvzFKF7Y2eKyI/31QZE85yzsMsAi2z9+u 8rqnUjqOlMwS0jWsqTQIA134cFjYt4szmGWQDnkLap5u0/s3qN0524Bv7Ogi9e9Zhb ld9pi38uKGP0g== Subject: Re: freebsd vs. netbsd To: Valeri Galtsev Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List References: <171506d5-19aa-359e-c21d-f07257c52ebd@freenetMail.de> <62d10000-e068-922e-23bd-f7a61e7a4e89@anatoli.ws> From: Anatoli Message-ID: <6a4f6a15-ec43-03f6-1a41-a109e445f026@anatoli.ws> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 11:25:19 -0300 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49gbBZ0mWYz4djM X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=anatoli.ws header.s=vnptcm0lqn header.b=kAyYdjbt; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=anatoli.ws; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of me@anatoli.ws designates 177.54.157.124 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=me@anatoli.ws X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.43 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[anatoli.ws:s=vnptcm0lqn]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:out-mx.anatoli.ws]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.989]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[anatoli.ws:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[anatoli.ws,reject]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.91)[-0.906]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.03)[-1.034]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:262287, ipnet:177.54.156.0/22, country:BR]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2020 14:25:27 -0000 > The most secure… if you dismiss the fact that one of the developer (who wrote network stack if my memory serves me) was simultaneously receiving payments from one of three letter agencies for several years. Rumors + FUD or do you have any proof? On 8/6/20 10:26, Valeri Galtsev wrote: > > >> On Jun 7, 2020, at 11:26 PM, Anatoli wrote: >> >> IMO >> >> * FreeBSD: servers (performance, stability, relative security, zfs), >> competes directly with Linux >> >> * OpenBSD: routers/firewalls, desktops (the most secure OS > > The most secure… if you dismiss the fact that one of the developer (who wrote network stack if my memory serves me) was simultaneously receiving payments from one of three letter agencies for several years. > > Valeri > >> and a really >> good desktop, but its absence of server-class performance is its >> weakest side + no zfs (just ffs2) and limited virtualization (no SMP) >> so not suitable for any serious server load where absolute security is >> not a must). The king in its niche (paranoid security) >> >> * NetBSD: toasters & freezers (runs on anything, otherwise not sure >> what's the point :), competes with FreeBSD and Linux (and Linux now >> supports more archs/platforms than Net). IMO no clear vision and thus >> attracts too little resources both human and economic. IMO midterm not >> much hope for survival, same as DFly and smaller BSDs. >> >> I believe that OS development is an economy of scale (doing things more >> efficiently or having other advantaged with increasing size) with a >> tendency for a monopoly in the same niche. >> >> There are some features that the larger players establish as a >> commodity, but that are very time-intensive and complex to develop (e.g. >> virtualization, wifi ac and now ax). So what Linux implemented more than >> a decade ago, the BSDs are just catching up now. >> >> Linux world had 2 "obstacles" to its almost flawless growth recently >> (systemd and a ZFS alternative). Now that the things have almost settled >> up, if they don't commit any more serious errors I don't see how the >> BSDs (except OpenBSD as it's not a direct competitor) could compete with >> it in the long term. >> >> Now with ZoL/OpenZFS the long-term future even for FreeBSD is not that >> clear (and the recent iX decisions [1] [2] are a clear sign). >> >> [1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/06/truenas-isnt-abandoning-bsd-but-it-is-adopting-linux/ >> [2] https://www.truenas.com/TrueOS-Discontinuation/ >> >> >> On 7/6/20 22:35, Wesley wrote: >>> greetings, >>> >>> There were freebsd and netbsd (maybe others?) in BSD world. >>> What points did they focus by design? >>> what are their use scenes then? >>> >>> Thank you. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >>> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >