From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 7 00:46:24 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E16C01065672 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2008 00:46:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kline@thought.org) Received: from aristotle.thought.org (ns1.thought.org [209.180.213.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A018F8FC0A for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2008 00:46:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kline@thought.org) Received: from thought.org (tao.thought.org [10.47.0.250]) (authenticated bits=0) by aristotle.thought.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m870k0xb024505; Sat, 6 Sep 2008 17:46:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kline@thought.org) Received: by thought.org (nbSMTP-1.00) for uid 1002 kline@thought.org; Sat, 6 Sep 2008 17:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 17:45:48 -0700 From: Gary Kline To: Polytropon Message-ID: <20080907004547.GA27611@thought.org> References: <20080903231439.GA98955@thought.org> <20080905170804.GB20329@melon.esperance-linux.co.uk> <20080905200601.GA81339@thought.org> <20080905223859.8ad56b37.freebsd@edvax.de> <20080906033645.GA93841@thought.org> <20080906135346.d16975e7.freebsd@edvax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080906135346.d16975e7.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Organization: Thought Unlimited. Public service Unix since 1986. X-Of_Interest: With 22 years of service to the Unix community. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=3.6 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on aristotle.thought.org Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List Subject: Re: which gray is best for print? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 00:46:25 -0000 { After spending hours looking for a used ThinkPad....} On Sat, Sep 06, 2008 at 01:53:46PM +0200, Polytropon wrote: > On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 20:36:45 -0700, Gary Kline wrote: > > So you're saying that the "white" on my [monster] CRT is not the > > same as on a future LCD Display? rats:) > > Exactly. And compare the "black", too, best way to differentiate > with CRT and LCD side by side with a fullscreen color "black". > Isn't it dark-gray, tho? or as "black" as a dark tube gets, rather than "true-black"? > > > > --I can't see much > > difference in my new laserjet from my HP500 DeskJet, but then it > > wasn't a main concern ... . > > Human perception is another thing. Just because *I* can't notice > something, it doesn't imply that (1) others can't and (2) it isn't > there. In order to make a human person *feel* the change of a > sensory input is linear (e. g. the light intensity increases), you > need to increase the actual input in a logarithmic way. > > http://www.neuro.uu.se/fysiologi/gu/nbb/lectures/WebFech.html > tHis I'll check out; you've piqued my curiousity, even tho this gets further from whatever I was talking about:-) ...Not only are the psychological varioations, but neurophysiological ones as well. And gender diffs too. My better two-thirds says that I may as well be color-blind, and she's probably right. What I will avoid is having some *Ugly* combos like black on dark blue. No, I am Not kidding. Or yellow typeface on White bg. It's like the shriek/skreek of chalk against a blackboard. Makes my skin crawl. > > > > I took all 5 quarters of physics, like most of us, but never got > > far into optics. > > Physics comes in 5 quarters? 5 * 0.25 = 1.25... :-) > > > > > And certainly, nothing like *this*. > > I learned about this when I studied psychology and computational > visualistics, but the RGB vs. CMY stuff (additive and subtractive > color combination) was part of the basal school education in the > GDR. You got me there, man. I took plenty of psych courses over the years, but nothing involving computation. Congrats. > > > > > the > > quality of my writing is much more important that the colors of > > typeface or background. > > I really applaud this attitude. You won't find them very often > across the web, sadly, because "style is more important than content". > I've seen things, man, ... > Hm. About the only time form/style can top function/contact, IMHO, is when you're being forced to watch a very nicely stylized ad. {On the web.} I've seen a couple. O/wise, the way a piece works wins. I listened to an interview on NPR several months ago who said that, "I think of people who don't watch web advertisement as thieves," or sometime similar. Isn't a primary function of the web to allow *us* to control what we see? > > > > But this is an interesting side-bar. > > It's a very important topic to know about when you're doing DTP > stuff. Exact color calibration is very important in this field. > So you can understand why there's still a niche market for quality > CRT monitors and quality printing devices. Of course, color > temperatures and other settings like contrast and brightness > are to be considered, too. > Sure, but I'll happy leave this niche to people more qualified. I'm below the bottom/barrel here. > > > > Really! So far, in my tests [staring at a CRT], I find an > > off-white reads most easily against a very dark blue. 000033; > > or whatever 333366 is. Still experimenting. > > it's very individual how colors are percepted. If someone with > deuteranopia looks at certain color combinations where others > may say: "Looks good!", they could say: "I don't see text there." > > At least for printed material, black on white is good, and it > even can be used for projection media (beamer). i May be off on this one, but I'm seeing more dark grays on my ink+paper journals. Hard to tell since with the years sight loses sharpness as our lenses become sclerotic and full of gunk. Which all goes back to the original point:: what's the best --oh, no-- what *are* the best combinations of off-white and darkgray, bluegray, or almost-black-bluegray? > > When I was at university, some guys put up a presentation with > black text on dark bluie background, 10pt serife font. Bah! > Unreadable in the last row. didn't i mumble something like this above? 25 years ago my eyes were much better, but not That much. i hope someone complained ... seriously. > > > > -- > Polytropon > From Magdeburg, Germany > Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 > Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... -- Gary Kline kline@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org