From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 16 12:58:16 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A42343381A1 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 12:58:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: from mail-wr1-x432.google.com (mail-wr1-x432.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::432]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49mStH0PZrz3gv8 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 12:58:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: by mail-wr1-x432.google.com with SMTP id j10so20657131wrw.8 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 05:58:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cedro.info; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=38j++3xdpjNlH40BU1U6FwHTtsyvGcYcPBFheq0u0bs=; b=OmmXqlmlIClwUxUJ97o/bMYlZSvMaZq9kXMI/iE7IGTDW84NaVZWw9c0FdTdWQp0Df GAbd3Gh1g5kgrxnp/lY3gCeAEKqzEEMDtm+2z/1xGdsamJvQkB+oPhcasc8EmLeknzdI J0tvjVdufpugWoywEQhuu6z4wfh6RyZBDLqlupzIPuXLBCJQrB6dgadXaYCxIYRaZCGw /3RIX+vP+ndpxILzbEAXQEwl+8DSuPWUwp/plgoBHBCuOrxihaKw8u5dwSu0Di+i3Lmk Vw97YEchP7xzIlq7Qn23FmWHv31DZKo6j6NvZvWHJW1g+nKrZiNW8yk0W44YSx7LsL0J Y37A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=38j++3xdpjNlH40BU1U6FwHTtsyvGcYcPBFheq0u0bs=; b=LAnlqv7+OunifMHBALmlE6HA5VM909ujsLX3esMg70cNf15IK/C5NOfIP+h/tjwlbC PMpvempmjSAFypaBeDUje0/z/Eg3mJ4SCsJrPmoaEcKicZDUENDexqIh9x/s1hHpzuLI Pu3575hk4yoFhw3yI4Q/flggop6pgR5Up31easwxiIoGR6bL890L7hdsQuqwkVbbtUZn O2ORpuxebSyCJZ1+BEPLwRr2/w/OMZNoEua02Ui0tVSuJ9mpW5HrCx9DnhmGHDI2+k0x p6Vrepie+gg4YvbFlfHm0Px8g7ImlS+k91oGLtZ5vPWRg3Z0x0/lUw2/7eethnNls8wa zvBA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531KQu3z4HeEOY+cuQ9GR1r8NxocMSoJatJDNRhCR8T525rOzwiA hoXriNkn7gohVdT7OE3HtlDrpYzqsLAS78LIX/R/+Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwWPK2YQiiLteozN6dIM+iwARUlyFPdL1H9xiDFu99OemEx6SNdL6zZmOB9Bc+xPRWessyov1CnFiR0dr5OENk= X-Received: by 2002:adf:c98a:: with SMTP id f10mr2943638wrh.329.1592312292461; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 05:58:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200613154409.GA89618@neutralgood.org> <13115.1592302784@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <20200616071153.00006f4d@seibercom.net> In-Reply-To: From: Tomasz CEDRO Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:57:06 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Mailing List Etiquette was freebsd vs. netbsd To: Chris Knipe , "Ronald F. Guilmette" Cc: FreeBSD - Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49mStH0PZrz3gv8 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cedro.info header.s=google header.b=OmmXqlml; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tomek@cedro.info has no SPF policy when checking 2a00:1450:4864:20::432) smtp.mailfrom=tomek@cedro.info X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.74 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.991]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cedro.info:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.971]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cedro.info]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cedro.info:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.48)[-0.481]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::432:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 12:58:16 -0000 On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 1:23 PM Chris Knipe wrote: > It just amazes me each and every time when this discussion comes up.... > > You're willing to embrace change, and evolution of new technologies like > 10G Ethernet, USB / Mass Storage, CSS, JS, Lambda's JSON, etc... Yet, you > want to be stuck in the stone age when it comes to email. > > Do you still use 360K floppy disks as well? CDs? > > Things change, embrace it like the rest of the world, or move on. No one > is unfortunately going to dictate to the entire world, what they can, and > cannot use in terms of a MUA. You're most certainly not going to dictate > that to me, and you're most certainly not going to dictate to me how to (or > not), send emails. > > If you want to be stuck in the stone age, then so be it. Feel free to not > read my emails if it bothers you that much. Just my "dwanascie groszy" - yes I still do use 360K floppy, I even work on cassette adapters with my friends so the data source is pure analog, I love my Atari, yes we create all sorts of wild extensions to that old nice 8-bit machines (Stereo Audio, SD card, Bluetooth, Ethernet, WiFi, even FPGA).. I also use CD-ROM (my nickname is CeDeROM heh) but that does not prevent me from using BD-DL 50GB disks.. also I sometimes use MUTT shell email client so I fully understand the MUA compliance.. it is just about respecting standards. It is the difference between adding EXTENSIONS versus imposing MODIFICATIONS / ALTERATIONS. The reason I choose FreeBSD as my OS of the choice is because it really has and keeps the Unix spirit of coherence, minimalism, and versatility, while new features show up without putting everything upside down all the time and it clearly shows this approach is possible and works fine especially when it comes to long term maintenance. This is what makes this OS and its community unique and so much different from the others nowadays. Sure if someone likes bleeding edge they choose Linux, if someone need quick results Windows is out there, and for nice looking Unix there is macOS. Apples and Oranges. All other platforms seem to be already tainted by "change is good" and "enforcing changes" ideologies, which _we_don't_want_here_. FreeBSD does not seem to be for everyone, but everyone is free to try it out and make his/hers opinion about (not) (choo/u)sing it. If someone asks to use ASCII 80-char wide long text here then for sure there is a rational reasoning for that, because that is the minimal possible set necessary for communication, otherwise the message would be ignored as unreadable, and the decision is on the sender side. Have a good day folks, stay true to yourself, choose whatever you like, stay free, and stop forcing anyone to do anything, imposing ideologies here is futile, we do not care about them, there are better places to do things like that, we have so much more interesting things to focus/create/build :-) Tomek -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info