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Date:      Mon, 8 Jun 2020 10:44:57 -0500
From:      Valeri Galtsev <galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu>
To:        Anatoli <me@anatoli.ws>
Cc:        FreeBSD Mailing List <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: freebsd vs. netbsd
Message-ID:  <f667e8f9-b279-a3ce-3fc4-224ba17f4bbb@kicp.uchicago.edu>
In-Reply-To: <6a4f6a15-ec43-03f6-1a41-a109e445f026@anatoli.ws>
References:  <171506d5-19aa-359e-c21d-f07257c52ebd@freenetMail.de> <62d10000-e068-922e-23bd-f7a61e7a4e89@anatoli.ws> <ACE27C81-9437-41D6-BBD4-FA7A7B791428@kicp.uchicago.edu> <6a4f6a15-ec43-03f6-1a41-a109e445f026@anatoli.ws>

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On 2020-06-08 09:25, Anatoli wrote:
>> The most secure… if you dismiss the fact that one of the developer (who wrote network stack if my memory serves me) was simultaneously receiving payments from one of three letter agencies for several years.
> 
> Rumors + FUD or do you have any proof?
> 

When I heard that I checked, and receipt of payments was confirmed by 
developer himself. That is my recollection, I am merely human whose 
memory can not be perfect, check that on your own. This even if 
confirmed as a fact, does not mean he left back doors or weak spots in code.

The rest is for everyone: to do one's own home work:

1. who don't care just dismiss what is said

2. Who do care to verify if receipt of payments is the fact, just verify 
on your own (I never think of myself to be considered the source of 
absolute truth. Merely as a help to point into direction where who is 
interested may find something helpful)

If one verifies the fact of payment(s), the decide for yourself:

A. Audit the code (I for one realize I will not be able to find fishy 
spots in that sophisticated code, so this can not be my choice)

B. Accept that it is likely that good enough programmers did audit code, 
hence there are no weak (or worse) spots in it

C. Accept that what top programmer wrote is not that easy to audit, and 
just shy away from what may (just merely may) be not quite kosher. If 
you care, of course.


And again, do your own thinking, this may, just merely may help someone.


Valeri

> On 8/6/20 10:26, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 7, 2020, at 11:26 PM, Anatoli <me@anatoli.ws> wrote:
>>>
>>> IMO
>>>
>>> * FreeBSD: servers (performance, stability, relative security, zfs),
>>>   competes directly with Linux
>>>
>>> * OpenBSD: routers/firewalls, desktops (the most secure OS
>>
>> The most secure… if you dismiss the fact that one of the developer (who wrote network stack if my memory serves me) was simultaneously receiving payments from one of three letter agencies for several years.
>>
>> Valeri
>>
>>> and a really
>>>   good desktop, but its absence of server-class performance is its
>>>   weakest side + no zfs (just ffs2) and limited virtualization (no SMP)
>>>   so not suitable for any serious server load where absolute security is
>>>   not a must). The king in its niche (paranoid security)
>>>
>>> * NetBSD: toasters & freezers (runs on anything, otherwise not sure
>>>   what's the point :), competes with FreeBSD and Linux (and Linux now
>>>   supports more archs/platforms than Net). IMO no clear vision and thus
>>>   attracts too little resources both human and economic. IMO midterm not
>>>   much hope for survival, same as DFly and smaller BSDs.
>>>
>>> I believe that OS development is an economy of scale (doing things more
>>> efficiently or having other advantaged with increasing size) with a
>>> tendency for a monopoly in the same niche.
>>>
>>> There are some features that the larger players establish as a
>>> commodity, but that are very time-intensive and complex to develop (e.g.
>>> virtualization, wifi ac and now ax). So what Linux implemented more than
>>> a decade ago, the BSDs are just catching up now.
>>>
>>> Linux world had 2 "obstacles" to its almost flawless growth recently
>>> (systemd and a ZFS alternative). Now that the things have almost settled
>>> up, if they don't commit any more serious errors I don't see how the
>>> BSDs (except OpenBSD as it's not a direct competitor) could compete with
>>> it in the long term.
>>>
>>> Now with ZoL/OpenZFS the long-term future even for FreeBSD is not that
>>> clear (and the recent iX decisions [1] [2] are a clear sign).
>>>
>>> [1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/06/truenas-isnt-abandoning-bsd-but-it-is-adopting-linux/
>>> [2] https://www.truenas.com/TrueOS-Discontinuation/
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/6/20 22:35, Wesley wrote:
>>>> greetings,
>>>>
>>>> There were freebsd and netbsd (maybe others?) in BSD world.
>>>> What points did they focus by design?
>>>> what are their use scenes then?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>

-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: 773-702-4247
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



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