Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:22:30 -0600 From: Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org> To: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org> Cc: Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org>, Rahul Siddharthan <rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in>, "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Stallman stalls again Message-ID: <15023.32422.797683.174502@guru.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010313205518.00e2da30@localhost> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010312215702.0445f5f0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010311235053.00e26140@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010311230800.00e19bd0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010311193801.0441d3c0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010306122244.04477f00@localhost> <20010305200017.D80474@lpt.ens.fr> <4.3.2.7.2.20010305123951.04604b20@localhost> <20010305205030.G80474@lpt.ens.fr> <4.3.2.7.2.20010305125259.00cfdae0@localhost> <20010305142108.A17269@marx.marvic.chum> <4.3.2.7.2.20010306011342.045fb360@localhost> <20010306081025.A22143@marx.marvic.chum> <4.3.2.7.2.20010306092612.00b79f00@localhost> <20010306174618.N32515@lpt.ens.fr> <4.3.2.7.2.20010313205518.00e2da30@localhost>
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Ok, at this point Brett has stated what he thinks reality is, I've pointed out the sections of the US code that say otherwise, and he's responded by picking nits about how I refer to the code, and repeating his claims, seemingly without checking the references I provided, and definitely without providing references of his own. That means this is a shouting match, not a discussion. This does nothing to help arrive at the peace I am looking for and Brett claims he's looking for, and is a waste of time. <mike Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org> types: > At 01:38 AM 3/13/2001, Mike Meyer wrote: > > >So? One of the first things the US did with the constitution was > >change it. > > By adding the Bill of Rights, which conferred explicit rights upon > the people. You're proposing to take rights away. > > >Not only are you once again assuming the solution is what you want it > >to be rather than discussing the issue, you're also making a false > >claim. You have the right to create copies of your works and give > >them away without any copyright laws at all. > > If there are no copyright laws, I have no right to ask that they not > be copied further. I make nothing from my work and have less incentive > to create more. That's not good. > > > You also have the right > >to requires those receiving them to adhere to whatever restrictions > >you require of them. That's the basis of trade secret protection. > > Trade secret laws protect information, not specific expressions of > ideas. > > There are other problems with relying on trade secret protection as > well. It's very weak, legally. In fact, to obtain such protection, > one must generally require recipients to sign ironclad non-disclosure > agreements. What's more, if the information "gets out" due to theft, > or any action on the part of a party other than the person who signed > the NDA, I have little or no recourse. > > >I already said the creators had the right to control recording a > >performance. performance, but that right is *not* granted by title > >17. > > Actually, it is. Creating a fixation of the performance without > permission is a violation of copyright. As is doing a performance > for profit without compensating the author. > > >Yup. And when roads became ubiquitous, buggy whip manufacturers > >folded. That's what happens when there are major technological > >changes. > > This is a poor analogy. Music, art, prose, etc. are the products, > and they are same as they ever were. > > >> I doubt that libraries will cease to be. > > > >The librarians don't agree with you. > > Yes, they do, actually. The director of our local library is > heavily involved in the NLA, and we've spoken about this subject. > She, like me, is concerned that libraries will be most hurt by the > fallout of war between content distributors and content consumers, > not by the existence of copyright or copyright laws. > > >The fundamentals aren't sound - they economic balances which are no > >longer true. > > There is nothing in the fundamental principles that specifies any > particular economic balance. > > >So simply make high bandwidth data connections illegal. That makes > >more sense and is violates fewer rights than the existing > >practices. Of course, the reality is that high bandwidth data pipes > >don't make it impossible to protect those rights. The existence of > >publicly available copying equipment makes it impossible to protect > >those rights. Publishers gave up trying to enforce it for audio > >cassettes, and got a similar compromise with royalties on audio cd's > >(which you pay even if your recordings are all fair use or original > >material). That's why the publishers aren't trying to simply ban high > >bandwidth connections, they are placing technological limits on > >peoples ability to make copies, such that I can't, for instance, put > >anything better than VCR quality videos of family on DVD-RAMs to share > >with my family. > > This is part of the fallout of the Content War. A large number of people > are -- like you -- claiming that there should be no copyright, and many > (e.g. the users of Napster, Gnutella, Freenet, etc.) are distributing > copies of copyrighted works far and wide without paying for them. The > content distributors' response is to act as if there already IS no > copyright and restrict content via other means. Had people like Stallman > and Barlow not instigated and escalated the war, the publishers would not > have felt as if they had no choice but to deploy these "weapons." > > >This isn't a new thing - it's been going on since the > >publishers managed to delay the introduction of DAT tapes to the US > >market > > SCMS is pretty much ineffectual. Any "professional" deck can be set to > ignore it, and most consumer decks can be easily hacked to do the > same. > > >while they discussed audio watermarking and other violations of > >the public and artists rights. > > Watermarking isn't a violation of anyone's rights. > > --Brett > > -- Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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