Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:38:08 +0200 From: Rahul Siddharthan <rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in> To: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org> Cc: Greg Lehey <grog@FreeBSD.ORG>, Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org>, Nik Clayton <nik@FreeBSD.ORG>, Kris Kennaway <kris@obsecurity.org>, Jonathan Slivko <js43064n@pace.edu>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD spokesman (was: So what happens to FreeBSD now?) Message-ID: <20010706103808.A99228@lpt.ens.fr> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010705163434.04524b00@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 04:47:26PM -0600 References: <200106260901.AA23134284@stmail.pace.edu> <20010626122845.A11960@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010626214230.D461@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> <20010626174756.A61831@blackhelicopters.org> <20010702211810.B325@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010703141550.045f5340@localhost> <20010705123729.M371@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010705125211.04638740@localhost> <20010705224626.O47721@lpt.ens.fr> <4.3.2.7.2.20010705163434.04524b00@localhost>
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Look Brett, I know from the past that when you read you choose it to mean whatever you want it to mean. Moreover, this helps you to carry around grudges for ridiculous amounts of time: if you can bear a grudge against Greg for a 6 month old article, imagine how the GPL's perceived injustices must have embittered your soul after all these years. *EVERY ONE* of the quotes you sent, either makes it clear that plagiarism only occurs when the reader is misled into believing that either the words, or the ideas, are the writer's own; or is an incidental sentence thrown in from a resource on an unrelated subject (intellectual property, etc). In any case, none of the original sources support you (see below). For what it's worth, what Greg wrote was not an academic article, but journalism. Unattributed quotes are commonplace in journalism and sometimes preferred: for instance, it's considered bad practice to quote a private conversation without permission, but often the journalist can't resist quoting it anyway. Greg's reasons were different: in his words he was "embarrassed" to name you. I'm not sure why, since everyone in the FreeBSD community knows about you, but there was nothing unethical in quoting you without naming you. In academic articles (and I've written several myself) you always quote with attribution if you're quoting a published work. If you quote private correspondence, you always ask first, before quoting. You don't normally make unattributed quotes, not because it's unethical but because it makes it difficult for the reader to evaluate the correctness of your paper. You, with your habit of selective quotation to further your cause, are consistently guilty of academic dishonesty. --- > >Plagiarism is claiming someone else's work as your own. > > It is also incorporating the work of others without attribution. > To quote from the languaged of the academic dishonesty policy used > by the University of Arkansas and many other institutions (see > http://www.nwacc.cc.ar.us/bus-comp/TCash/Rules.htm)), > > "Plagiarism occurs both when the words of another are reproduced > without acknowledgment or when the ideas or arguments of another are > paraphrased in such a way as to lead the reader to believe that they > originated with the writer." A perfect example of your habit of selective quotation. This extract tells you how plagiarism may occur. The beginning of the paragraph defines plagiarism: * [one example of academic dishonesty] Plagiarism, the offering as ones own work, the words, ideas, or ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ arguments of another person without appropriate attribution by quotation, reference, or footnote. (my emphasis) > http://www.arl.org/symp3/givler.html#note6 > > "Plagiarism is the use of someone else's ideas without attribution, > whether or not the specific language in which the ideas are being > expressed has also been taken from someone else." What idea of yours did he "use"? He was quoting, quite clearly, not using your ideas (in fact he was rejecting them). This is from an article on copyright infringement which doesn't bother to explain in detail what plagiarism is; but the idea clearly is that plagiarism is claiming another's work or ideas as yours. > http://www.keganlaw.com/faq.htm > > "Academic plagiarism is using another's work without attribution." He was quoting your work, not using it. Perhaps the meanings are not well defined here, but this was from a resource on intellectual property, not academic rights, so once again you're just lifting a single out-of-context and perhaps carelessly written sentence. > http://www.du.edu/law/lawreview/honorcode.htm > > "In general, plagiarism is using the ideas or statements of someone > else without attribution." Again, reading the rest of that page shows you the intent is not to claim the work as your own. Further on the page, it says plagiarism consists of either (a) using an idea or statement from a source without a footnote, or (b) using more than three consecutive words from a statement in a source without enclosing the words in quotes and citing to the source. Greg did (b), very plainly, and the source he cited was a FreeBSD mailing list. > http://nutsandbolts.washcoll.edu/plagiarism.html > > "You are obligated, as an ethical obligation to other writers and as > a defense for yourself, to acknowledge all borrowings you take from > other sources, even if you don't copy the exact words used in the > original—even if you never actually quote the original. Plagiarism > includes: > > 1. Quoting material without attribution. The most obvious kind of > plagiarism. Greg acknowledged that this quote was from another source. He even mentioned the source: the FreeBSD mailing lists. > And on and on.... There are thousands of references on the Web. Yes, since your definition of "reference" is hitting the Google search engine and choosing the phrases you like. I didn't even bother doing my own search: your own references discredit you so thoroughly (apart from the fact that you can't distinguish between an academic publication and DaemonNews.) 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