From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 20 02:16:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 414A116A494 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 02:16:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd2mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46F0243D5A for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2006 02:16:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd2mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (pd2mr5so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.8]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J7E006XMWWJ6OA0@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:14:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml3so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.147]) by pd2mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.05 (built Apr 28 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J7E00BHTWWJNF01@pd2mr5so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:14:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from soralx.cydem.org ([24.87.27.3]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0J7E00B9OWWIWAE0@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:14:43 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:14:41 -0700 From: soralx@cydem.org In-reply-to: <20061019191429.GA34611@xor.obsecurity.org> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <200610191914.41286.soralx@cydem.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline References: <20061018205647.b8578efc.mmendez@energyhq.be> <20061019190436.GE19415@graf.pompo.net> <20061019191429.GA34611@xor.obsecurity.org> User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 Subject: Re: Propietary NVIDIA driver pwn3d X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 02:16:07 -0000 > > > > al least those can be promptly fixed... > > > Wasn't this one promptly fixed too? > > This bug was reported on 2004-12-21: > > . > Well...sort of. The *symptoms* are reported there but no-one > identified it as a nvidia driver bug. duh... could the fact that the bug was well hidden within the depths of the binary blob play a role? Debugging _with_ a source code is a hell of a way to waste time sometimes, let alone trying to fix something when all you have is a binary module... a kernel module. des has a good point, though. IMHO, what he wanted to say is this: it doesn't help to be so ungrateful to nvidia. Bugs happen, especially in things as comlicated as modern videocard drivers. Videocards these days are far beyond the point when, given full documentation, a single person could write a driver for. They're not like a NIC, a soundcard, etc in that respect. Moreover, neither nvidia nor ati (or anyone else) are allowed to release any docs on their chips without an NDA (I know not what they're hiding, but, given how vast the windoze market is, they have a lot to lose). So those companies who do release a working driver for their videocards deserve a little respect for at least _trying_ to support us OSS users. However, a little more cooperation hardly would hurt, I think. Now, what to do if you need to use the nvidia driver, but want to avoid the security risk? Back in the good old days (for me, these were the days of DOS and Windoze 98), I used to patch misbehaving programs by disassembling and modifying the data... you know, standard procedure: insert some instructions bytes in suitable empty space, then trow in some form of jump, etc. I'm curious now, would this type of approach work in FreeBSD kernel module? > In fact there's no mention of nvidia at all until September 2006. > > Kris [SorAlx] ridin' VN1500-B2