From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Jul 20 21:50:15 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2B51B9F4B8 for ; Wed, 20 Jul 2016 21:50:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joel@vnode.se) Received: from smtp.vnode.se (smtp.vnode.se [IPv6:2a07:6c0:1::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.vnode.se", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B63701E18; Wed, 20 Jul 2016 21:50:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joel@vnode.se) Received: from ymer.vnode.se (81-235-218-96-no20.tbcn.telia.com [81.235.218.96]) by smtp.vnode.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B975887E8; Wed, 20 Jul 2016 23:50:12 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 23:50:12 +0200 From: Joel Dahl To: Baptiste Daroussin Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UTF-8 by default? Message-ID: <20160720215012.GA77588@ymer.vnode.se> Mail-Followup-To: Baptiste Daroussin , freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <20160720140741.yi7vfgmmqtg6eprx@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <20160720183814.GA77261@ymer.vnode.se> <20160720190841.iuplrbhmdq7sr6br@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20160720190841.iuplrbhmdq7sr6br@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.1 (2016-04-27) X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 21:50:16 -0000 On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 09:08:41PM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 08:38:14PM +0200, Joel Dahl wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 04:07:41PM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > > On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 10:47:45AM -0230, Jonathan Anderson wrote: > > > > On 20 Jul 2016, at 9:13, Tim Čas wrote: > > > > > > > > > So, without further ado: > > > > > 1) What are the reasons that UTF-8 isn't the default yet? > > > > > 2) Would it be possible to make this the default in 11.0? What about > > > > > 12.0? > > > > > 3) Assuming an effort is started towards making UTF-8 the default, > > > > > what changes would be required? > > > > > > > > At least according to one of my students (who makes more extensive use of > > > > i18n than I do), enabling UTF-8 by default is pretty straightforward: > > > > > > > > https://github.com/musec/freebsd/wiki/Common-setup#utf-8-support > > > > > > the LC_COLLATE=C is not needed anymore with freebsd 11+ > > > > > > > > If there's anything missing there, I'd love to hear about it. > > > > > > > - unicode support in our old groff is pretty bad, I plan to replace it with > > > heirloom-doctools which does handle unicode propertly (as far I have tested > > > at least) > > > > I haven't really been paying attention lately so things might have changed, > > but why can't we just remove groff now? We have mdocml, and for people that > > really need the groff functionality can just install it or heirloom-doctools > > from ports. The initial plan was to remove groff after we imported mdocml, but > > it was never removed and I lost interest, so again, things might have changed > > since then. > > We have roff documentation in based, plus a lot of people argues that not havin > a roff toolchain in base is an issue for them. What is the issue? I tried to find some clues in the mailing list archive, but my google skills are obviously weak. When we discussed this (mainly uqs@ and me) 4 years ago the goal was to move the old roff'ed papers to the doc/ repo. I didn't see any objections when it was suggested on the doc/www mailing lists back in 2013. There is even an old pr about it, 178730. -- Joel