From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 16 13:18:46 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AD1D338BEB for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 13:18:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd2e.google.com (mail-io1-xd2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49mTKx3xK8z40GM for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 13:18:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd2e.google.com with SMTP id x189so12722781iof.9 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 06:18:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ijvEIFUkdQ7ty5G4JLuTrf40ChEIfiawqO5eYJDolZs=; b=V0XSYneRFUFNCt5XxvqqjtUlMJeOLJCC+IUJIAI1S5a3LlkcJcndByYRuvOPu0q8kF EWFVibvlHddBMvGXqoDIyvSiNRXw/d8W8Om08jDp9h7NlGBNCxc332xMcxkfXfKDXUQH igBu3FED85jE0iGfubfQIfeOBPTekxIQmy0eAV3/lfpfeHgdeME1BUql1exqio1kmUxb HFYCiJg7YedYfXna8gCwL3DrWCa1wWPmavVheVbwZOj/g2aiqEZNI8z0fvQP+2NwmHX7 ClzjRZe89qIOgJ9tpnhkz0X5h+PvUCvxTu8sDg+2EacPsPHmg1mwWs/rUE2NvSBUdyPx opzw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ijvEIFUkdQ7ty5G4JLuTrf40ChEIfiawqO5eYJDolZs=; b=A5fqVIi8Q39GOd5ApJs8r6IWJCpUdGzoeds4MhL+AKPQDbc+pR9Xf8ec9PKm9s16W3 SBeTA+T1CSV87diiAkzy1LXz4WSNuhe/rRh4kjxabtgB+Tu81xmAZ/S5HhzeW3NugdWH NxixqLyCP8duNnN6IiK+uC3pDE8L4j+JOzvAn1AGNns/BGvI18w8WakScsXKAcQvmRfx WmV4PeeE5loMMyCfyqtbYO9smPxlPb4vPwPquW9I9Jfa+dfqDSyq2f7YMbdvczG5aWzZ WOPBX39FeiVMr9IUF+G2dtnSotTzrk85ZgMMvlmebkVrkz8n8XcbmsHKcUxDUs0HDBVo fB5w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530u3K1f7y74LNev4r3JBd++Zk548PiowxC40YPTitbYhW2yf7BE 0mFmUISOZRWIfHmCf7J31YhbXlyowOma6MsD0yk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxEsFlD6FZkgQQmDlZEckrbcWLsk/YI6F3yNSYnn7XFWSmtY6/XNwnh0Y2sEoby4RWP8vW4lgYZv6wO4ZBpSr4= X-Received: by 2002:a02:6a26:: with SMTP id l38mr25766120jac.60.1592313524358; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 06:18:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200613154409.GA89618@neutralgood.org> <13115.1592302784@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <20200616071153.00006f4d@seibercom.net> <20200616075548.000066f1@seibercom.net> <20200616140416.bd7b8bf2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200616142043.7d599458.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 09:18:32 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Mailing List Etiquette was freebsd vs. netbsd To: Chris Knipe Cc: Polytropon , FreeBSD - X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49mTKx3xK8z40GM X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=V0XSYneR; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.58 / 15.00]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.04)[-1.040]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.993]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[1]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2e:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.54)[-0.543]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 13:18:46 -0000 On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 8:56 AM Chris Knipe wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 2:50 PM Aryeh Friedman > wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 8:28 AM Chris Knipe wrote: >> >>> https://imgur.com/a/eW01Zc2 Your own message - a very good example of >>> what's wrong with it. Straight from gmail. In outlook (for example, >>> which >>> has a narrower reading plane), it will be even worse, as even -more- >>> scrolling would be required. >>> >> >> Reading the original message on gmail was no problem for me nor >> unreadable in any way (you must have your gmail configured in some f'ed up >> way!). >> > > Never in my life, changed a setting in gmail - so that's how it is > displayed by default. Don't blame me, blame gmail. I never changed > anything. > Then if you don't like narrow messages you can always zoom in ;-) But seriously you are complaining about something that is beyond trivial to customize (for example control-mouse wheel is your friend in most browsers and not just for gmail but for other sites, some need to be zoomed and other need to be zoomed out... almost no one makes the right guess for font sizes and such on the web). > > >> >> >>> We don't use 640x480 monitors anymore (hell, not even our SSH sessions >>> run >>> at these low resolutions and 80 col / 25 rows anymore) - we're way past >>> that as well... Whilst I now have to scroll up and down to read your >>> message, I could have seen your entire message in one screen without the >>> need to scroll up and down. >>> >> >> Maybe if you have *perfect* eyesight you could see it on one screen! (Not >> everyone is 18 and has vision better than most fighter pilots). And you >> might be wrong about the row/col count of some/most SSH (X based terminal >> apps) for example on a 1920x1080 monitor (27") my 50 year old eyes need >> 37x135 (not that much larger than 25x80) when using a xfce terminal, the >> default font size is unreadable even with 1.75 diopter reading glasses >> (which are not needed if I use the above resolution). Before you go >> crazy about how everything can be done via a GUI I have one question: are >> you a programmer or a sysadmin? (if not then you have no idea of how useful >> a command line is vs. the GUI). >> > > Well if we have to get personal, I am 40 years old, psoriasis, rheumatoid > arthritis affecting my eyesight, with glasses. My monitors run at their > default resolution of 1920x1080 and I have zero issues seeing anything. > Maybe you should go for an eye test, and get some glasses? > Just did, a few months ago, and except for a slight case of farsightedness nothing wrong with them. The doctor said it was completely normal for eyes to lose their ability to quickly shift through different size objects and text as they age (the lense is 100 times less elastic at 50 then at 20 and 10 less elastic then at 40). > > > >> Entry level from my local computer superstore (microcenter) is 25" and I >> am sure I would have an even lower resolution there. So no we are *NOT* >> way past 25x80, you are just being dense and an elitist to say otherwise. >> > > And in typical FreeBSD mailing list etiquette, now we get offended and > start slandering people. > Anyone who brags about how someone elses tech is "too old" is being elitists (not everyone has deep pockets and/or works for a large organization such as us freelancers). > > PS: You are the *EXCEPTION*, not the *NORM*. > Not according to my doctor who says my eyes better than average for a 50 year old. Also since I help out with teaching a few CS classes (as an unpaid TA) at the local university I have noticed most of the 20 something students also increase the font size from the default (not as much as me but about 20% increase). So I don't think I am out of the norm (i.e. not more then one standard deviation from the mean). > -- > > Regards, > Chris Knipe > -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org