From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 0:41:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from beppo.feral.com (beppo.feral.com [192.67.166.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A71B937B405 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:41:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from beppo (mjacob@beppo [192.67.166.79]) by beppo.feral.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f687fGS61377; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:41:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:41:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob X-Sender: mjacob@beppo Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Warner Losh Cc: Jeff Mohler , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: best way to migrate to a new disk In-Reply-To: <200107080627.f686RGJ76468@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Only if you want to be here until next tuesday. Solaris ufsdump runs 8 times as fast. You're right - tar doesn't handle files with holes. Not too many of those around. /dev you can and should always remake. Typically it's only sa0 out of the generic set that tar skips. On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Warner Losh wrote: > In message Matthew Jacob writes: > : tar cfl - . | (cd /altroot/ && tar xpf -) > > Don't use tar. It loses devices, can't handle holey files well and a > number of other minor clitches. Use dump instead. > > Warner > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 0:43: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from beppo.feral.com (beppo.feral.com [192.67.166.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22A3137B401 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:43:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from beppo (mjacob@beppo [192.67.166.79]) by beppo.feral.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f687gxS61390; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:42:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:42:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob X-Sender: mjacob@beppo Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Warner Losh Cc: Jeff Mohler , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: best way to migrate to a new disk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I mean, Warner- you're right, but, well, I've been using tar to copy systems for the last 5 years for *BSD, and, well, it really works best for me. On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Matthew Jacob wrote: > > Only if you want to be here until next tuesday. Solaris ufsdump runs 8 times > as fast. > > You're right - tar doesn't handle files with holes. Not too many of those > around. > > /dev you can and should always remake. Typically it's only sa0 out of the > generic set that tar skips. > > On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Warner Losh wrote: > > > In message Matthew Jacob writes: > > : tar cfl - . | (cd /altroot/ && tar xpf -) > > > > Don't use tar. It loses devices, can't handle holey files well and a > > number of other minor clitches. Use dump instead. > > > > Warner > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 1:20: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from colnta.acns.ab.ca (h24-68-206-125.sbm.shawcable.net [24.68.206.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFED537B403 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 01:20:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davidc@colnta.acns.ab.ca) Received: (from davidc@localhost) by colnta.acns.ab.ca (8.11.4/8.11.3) id f688K3941381 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 02:20:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from davidc) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 02:20:03 -0600 From: Chad David To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Want to write kernel docs Message-ID: <20010708022003.A41332@colnta.acns.ab.ca> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am interested in writing man pages for some kernel functions related to some work that I am doing. As I am not familiar with a lot of the code that I am going through I am looking for someone who would be willing to "validate" what I write before (or after) I send it (is send-pr the best way to submit that type of stuff?). I have already written vinvalbuf.9 and have a list of about ten others that I am going to try to get to in the next few days, and after that the functions that stem from those. If this should be directed to doc (I didn't think many people with the ability to comment on these docs would be there), or if there is no demand for or interest in this type of documentation just let me know and I will skip the whole mdoc thing and go straight to HTML :). Thanks Chad David davidc@acns.ab.ca To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 1:33:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from a.mx.everquick.net (a.mx.everquick.net [216.89.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F81637B403 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 01:33:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eddy+public+spam@noc.everquick.net) Received: from localhost (eddy@localhost) by a.mx.everquick.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f688X5400467; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 08:33:05 GMT X-EverQuick-No-Abuse: Report any e-mail abuse to Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 08:33:04 +0000 (GMT) From: "E.B. Dreger" To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: rh@matriplex.com, brian@Awfulhak.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com Subject: Re: Authentic FreeBSD (Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral) In-Reply-To: <20010707202716O.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 20:27:16 -0700 > From: Jordan Hubbard > such. It's often the case that actually tracking the effectiveness > of, say, $500 towards some theoretically worthy cause costs you > thousands of dollars in man-hours. Heck, If somebody tried to donate > a million bucks to the foundation right now, I'd actually expect the > current directors to probably scream and run away. :-) How about... 1. Programming contests with prizes (results committed) 2. Buying publicity (surely newscasters can be bribed) 3. Distributing as many CDs as AOL (might need more than $1M) ;-) Okay, I'll be good now. Eddy --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. - EverQuick Internet Division Phone: +1 (316) 794-8922 Wichita/(Inter)national Phone: +1 (785) 865-5885 Lawrence --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:23:58 +0000 (GMT) From: A Trap To: blacklist@brics.com Subject: Please ignore this portion of my mail signature. These last few lines are a trap for address-harvesting spambots. Do NOT send mail to , or you are likely to be blocked. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 1:42:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mooseriver.com (erie.mooseriver.com [205.166.121.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 781FB37B401 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 01:42:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f688g1t71024; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 01:42:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 01:42:01 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: "E.B. Dreger" Cc: Jordan Hubbard , rh@matriplex.com, brian@Awfulhak.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com Subject: Re: Authentic FreeBSD (Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral) Message-ID: <20010708014201.A70981@mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <20010707202716O.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from eddy+public+spam@noc.everquick.net on Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 08:33:04AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 08:33:04AM +0000, E.B. Dreger wrote: > > Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 20:27:16 -0700 > > From: Jordan Hubbard > > > such. It's often the case that actually tracking the effectiveness > > of, say, $500 towards some theoretically worthy cause costs you > > thousands of dollars in man-hours. Heck, If somebody tried to donate > > a million bucks to the foundation right now, I'd actually expect the > > current directors to probably scream and run away. :-) > > How about... > > 1. Programming contests with prizes (results committed) > 2. Buying publicity (surely newscasters can be bribed) > 3. Distributing as many CDs as AOL (might need more than $1M) How about CD #1 as an insert into a computer mag like Byte or Computer Shopper. Better yet, put a label on CD #1 that says "Hot porn reader inside!" then bundle with a computer mag. Thousands would install just to see our porn reader. We just don't tell them that the porn reader is xv ;-) For the humor impaired, that was a joke. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 4.3 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | www.bafug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 3: 1:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp7.xs4all.nl (smtp7.xs4all.nl [194.109.127.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B179437B405 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 03:01:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [213.84.32.253]) by smtp7.xs4all.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16300; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:01:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from wkb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.11.4/8.11.3) id f68A1Zm26238; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:01:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:01:35 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Matthew Emmerton Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010708120135.B26131@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <3B47DA2F.D417E048@softweyr.com> <018601c10767$5d70e430$1200a8c0@gsicomp.on.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <018601c10767$5d70e430$1200a8c0@gsicomp.on.ca>; from matt@gsicomp.on.ca on Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 12:35:06AM -0400 X-OS: FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 12:35:06AM -0400, Matthew Emmerton wrote: > > Richard Hodges wrote: > > > > > > Sure, no argument there. Taking Wes' suggestion, maybe there is an > > > opportunity in the "official" distribution distinction. How about a > > > "certificate of authenticity" which costs the vendors $1 or $2 (or > > > whatever), and shows the customer that their choice of vendors helped > > > FreeBSD financially. Incidentally, this certificate might also be a > > > selling point for those twisted individuals that just don't understand > > > free software :-) > > > > Now that's an idea, but it raises problems with shipping the > "certificates" > > across national borders, causing import duties, etc. Maybe if we made > > the certificates in PostScript or even fig files. ;^) > > I'm not sure how much of a difference the "certificate" would make, as far > as import duties goes. I live in Canada (Toronto, Ontario), and accoriding > to new rules that came into effect on Jan 1/2001, my CDs (which are > considered "computer programs, electronic media") are now subject to 5% > duty, 7% GST, 8% provincial tax, plus a $5.00 handling charge by Canada > Post. (So much for NAFTA!) So on a USD$30 set of CDs (CAD$45), that works > out to be about $15 in taxes and fees due to the classification. I don't > see how a "certificate" would change that for the worse. (Well, unless the > discs started being shipped via UPS. Then I'd get dinged for a $20 handing > fee instead of $5.) > > For those in Europe or Australia, I'm not sure what the import rules are, > but I'm sure they already have to pay some sort of import duties, and I > don't see how the inclusion of a certificate would change that for the > worse. Don't start.. I've paid import duties & taxes multiple times for shipments of give-away CDs that jkh/WC sent over to our Dutch FreeBSD User Group (NLFUG). There also seems to be a special European import duty on any CDs coming in from outside the EC. If you have ever seen the outrageous prices on (music) CDs here you know why.. W/ -- | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands email: wilko@FreeBSD.org |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte http://www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 3: 8: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peter3.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BBA937B405; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 03:07:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f68A7SM77466; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 03:07:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C93F3811; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 03:07:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Sergey Babkin Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Kris Kennaway , "Louis A. Mamakos" , Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <3B47E06D.32067E46@bellatlantic.net> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 03:07:28 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20010708100728.5C93F3811@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sergey Babkin wrote: > Peter Wemm wrote: > > > > Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > In message <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net>, Sergey Babkin writes: > > > > > > >If the FreeBSD Foundation is an existing entity now, maybe we > > > >can just change the license for the CD images to "not for resale" > > > >unless the distributor signs an agreement with the Foundation ? > > First, I want to say that after Jordan's explanation I agree > that this is not a worty idea, at least for now. So the > further is just for a more clear explanation. > > > > Why on _earth_ would we make it so hard for people to get hold > > > of a media copy of FreeBSD, when absolutely nothing prevents > > For example, to help fund the release engineering process. What release engineering process? The way things stand right now: - snapshots get regularly built by US-WEST machines. - somebody does a periodic 'make release' and calls it a beta - volunteers test it - somebody does a 'make release' and calls it a release - the packages are collected from the package building machines that run continuously and put in directories - somebody does a mkisofs for the 4 cd set. There isn't much else that gets added to make something 'official' or not. The FreeBSD project provides the base images. The official release is the base system that goes on ftp.freebsd.org. There isn't much here that can be paid for. Yahoo provided the i386 ports build machines. Compaq provided the Alpha ports build machines. US-WEST provided the snapshot build machines. Yahoo and US-WEST provide bandwidth. The ports build system is supervised by volunteers who do it for fun and/ or personal satisfaction for the project at large. The ftp and cvsup mirrors and bandwidth for those are provided by a cast of thousands. > > > me or anybody else from rolling a net distribution ? > > If buying the rights to the "official" distribution is cheaper, > why would anyone want to redo it ? Anybody can make their own release that is indistinguishable from the official release. There is no 'value add' on the official release at all, apart from somebody ftp'ing the XFree86 releases, the freebsd releases and the ports packages / distfiles and shuffling it to make it all fit. Anybody can do that. In fact, we've now got a DVD release in the pipeline that doesn't even need all that much in the way of shuffling. The only thing that the freebsd.org 'make release' command doesn't do is actually run mkisofs so that it spits out a bootable .iso image. The reason the project provides all this for free is because many of the developers who did it are using it themselves for internal releases within their companies etc. I dont mean to undersell the effort that jkh and crew go to in order that we actually get a release coordinated, and there is a fair bit more to having a worthwhile release than producing a .iso image. There is cover artwork, the logistics of getting CD's made, inventory, shipping, getting CD's into stores, etc. I'd wager *that* is far more costly and time consuming than rolling a few custom .iso's. > > And if some organization is funding developers to work on FreeBSD full > > time, then I personally would go out of my way to help them too, should > > they need something. (several spring to mind) > > > > All this hot air about "protecting" the .iso's is the *least* of our > > It's not about protecting. It's about financiallly stimulating more > organizations to fund developers to work on FreeBSD. The ISO image > distribution rights don't have to be exchanged for money, they > may just as well (and better) be exchanged for such support. Encouraging more organizations to fund developers is an entirely different thing to charging for release materials that can be independently generated for free in a few hours/days/whatever. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 5:45:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from roulen-gw.morning.ru (roulen-gw.morning.ru [195.161.98.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA8737B401; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 05:45:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from poige@morning.ru) Received: from NIC1 (seven.ld [192.168.11.7]) by roulen-gw.morning.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF9773D; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:45:09 +0800 (KRAST) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:45:27 +0800 From: Igor Podlesny X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.52 Beta/7) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Organization: Morning Network X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <335722238.20010708204527@morning.ru> To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Flight of the rat, living wreck..... In-Reply-To: <1595443006.20010630190139@morning.ru> References: <1595443006.20010630190139@morning.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hello everybody! > This is relative to 4.3 for yet ;) so if you're using something older > you can skip it easily. well, I came up with a patch (http://www.morning.ru/~poige/patchzone/ip_fw.c.patch) > How it was started > ------------------ > For a long time I've been looking forward (and even trying to learn > freebsd internals enough to implement it by myself :) for newly > implemented ipfw's feature allowing easy filtering of non-transit > ip-packets, i.e., packets with destination address of one of the > interfaces. (You know in Linux it is done now with netfilter, which > separates ip flow into 3 different chains, BSDi's ipfw looks like a > programming language :) which allows such things for ages, if I'm not > mistaken ;). In short -- the feature is cool, and I get prepared to > start using it. At first it seemed to be okay, I felt security > comparable to "deny ip from any to any" ;)), but than, noticed that > something was going wrong. > And this was with Point-to-point interfaces. Everything was as if > remote peer ip-address matched 'me'. It's certainly wrong as far as I > can guess, so after applying fixes to my IPFW's rules allowing easy > going (passing) for packets to such addresses I started digging the > code. > ip_fw.c looks okay, but in_var.h with its INADDR_TO_IFP definition > which is a core for 'me'-feature >> if (f->fw_flg & IP_FW_F_SME) { >> INADDR_TO_IFP(src_ip, tif); >> if (tif == NULL) >> continue; >> } >> if (f->fw_flg & IP_FW_F_DME) { >> INADDR_TO_IFP(dst_ip, tif); >> if (tif == NULL) >> continue; > doesn't: >> /* >> * Macro for finding the interface (ifnet structure) corresponding to one >> * of our IP addresses. >> */ >> #define INADDR_TO_IFP(addr, ifp) \ >> /* struct in_addr addr; */ \ >> /* struct ifnet *ifp; */ \ >> { \ >> register struct in_ifaddr *ia; \ >> \ >> for (ia = in_ifaddrhead.tqh_first; \ > // so here we start looking through the queue >> ia != NULL > // sanity (I'd have written just (ia)) >> && ((ia->ia_ifp->if_flags & IFF_POINTOPOINT)? \ > // hm. special case if the interface is PTP >> IA_DSTSIN(ia):IA_SIN(ia))->sin_addr.s_addr != (addr).s_addr; \ > // so it is like: if it is PTP, then we using DST address in comparison > // with addr.s_addr > // it is the time I started to ask myself why it is so? why we're (ok, > // they're) checking for remote ip-address if the head comment > // says: > // * Macro for finding the interface (ifnet structure) corresponding to one > // * of our IP addresses. > // ^^^ > // ^^^ >> ia = ia->ia_link.tqe_next) \ >> continue; \ > // as it's seen, the algo is: checking addresses of our ifaces or > // our remote ends in case of PTP until we get the matching or reach the end > // this is like vice versa: looking through the queue for exact matching > // and in case only ia is NULL after the first search. Also, this > // it's taking into consideration only PTP interfaces and only local > // addresses of them. >> if (ia == NULL) \ >> for (ia = in_ifaddrhead.tqh_first; \ >> ia != NULL; \ >> ia = ia->ia_link.tqe_next) \ >> if (ia->ia_ifp->if_flags & IFF_POINTOPOINT && \ >> IA_SIN(ia)->sin_addr.s_addr == (addr).s_addr) \ >> break; \ > // the terminator: if we have found something we would come up with > // ia_ifp, or with NULL at least. >> (ifp) = (ia == NULL) ? NULL : ia->ia_ifp; \ >> } > Now, getting down to IPFW's 'me'-keyword business: > IMHO, it breaks the sense in this way: > on first cycle-pass, the matching is found and ia isn't NULL. so the > second is skipped. and we got the matching, although we shouldn't. > I deem this is wrong. > Now, in conclusion > ------------------ > I'm a man who hasn't very deep knowledge of the BSD's bones, still be > learning it. So I can't say that the code INADDR_TO_IFP is completely > wrong because of lack of knowledge and all I say is just it doesn't > fit the purpose of IPFW's 'me'-keyword and the solution is to avoid > using it there. > Your ideas and opinions are really appreciated. > Good luck everybody and thank you in advance. -- Igor mailto:poige@morning.ru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 6:14:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.webmonster.de (datasink.webmonster.de [194.162.162.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 95CBF37B405 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 06:14:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karsten@rohrbach.de) Received: (qmail 25393 invoked by uid 1000); 8 Jul 2001 13:14:47 -0000 Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:14:47 +0200 From: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" To: Wes Peters Cc: Richard Hodges , Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010708151447.C24461@mail.webmonster.de> Mail-Followup-To: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" , Wes Peters , Richard Hodges , Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <3B47DA2F.D417E048@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="uh9ZiVrAOUUm9fzH" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B47DA2F.D417E048@softweyr.com>; from wes@softweyr.com on Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 09:57:35PM -0600 X-Arbitrary-Number-Of-The-Day: 42 X-URL: http://www.webmonster.de/ X-Disclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my employer Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --uh9ZiVrAOUUm9fzH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wes Peters(wes@softweyr.com)@2001.07.07 21:57:35 +0000: > Richard Hodges wrote: > >=20 > > Sure, no argument there. Taking Wes' suggestion, maybe there is an > > opportunity in the "official" distribution distinction. How about a > > "certificate of authenticity" which costs the vendors $1 or $2 (or > > whatever), and shows the customer that their choice of vendors helped > > FreeBSD financially. Incidentally, this certificate might also be a > > selling point for those twisted individuals that just don't understand > > free software :-) >=20 > Now that's an idea, but it raises problems with shipping the "certificate= s" > across national borders, causing import duties, etc. Maybe if we made > the certificates in PostScript or even fig files. ;^)
=2E..make them pdf. stubborn marketing folks can only read one format ;-)
/k --=20 > Experience is a teacher that gives the examination first and the > lesson afterwards.=20 KR433/KR11-RIPE -- WebMonster Community Founder -- nGENn GmbH Senior Techie http://www.webmonster.de/ -- ftp://ftp.webmonster.de/ -- http://www.ngenn.n= et/ karsten&rohrbach.de -- alpha&ngenn.net -- alpha&scene.org -- catch@spam.de GnuPG 0x2964BF46 2001-03-15 42F9 9FFF 50D4 2F38 DBEE DF22 3340 4F4E 2964 B= F46 Please do not remove my address from To: and Cc: fields in mailing lists. 1= 0x --uh9ZiVrAOUUm9fzH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7SFzHM0BPTilkv0YRAv/OAJ4pt6jC+MK35i+H8mn1DXXsTj2DrQCfZGCR eibeBqScJoeCbq4ZCVghluU= =o40l -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --uh9ZiVrAOUUm9fzH-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 6:59:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BBBC37B407; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 06:59:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stephen@math.missouri.edu) Received: from math.missouri.edu ([24.12.197.197]) by femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010708135927.WART1573.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@math.missouri.edu>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 06:59:27 -0700 Message-ID: <3B48673E.FE13F587@math.missouri.edu> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 08:59:26 -0500 From: Stephen Montgomery-Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: dbopen man page Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have some questions about the dbopen(3) man page. 1. It seems to me that the list of includes should include something like #include otherwise the various flags for open(2) are not defined (like O_RDWR, etc), and these are needed for dbopen. 2. If I do something like this: db->get(db,&key,&data,0); db->del(db,&key,0); then after the del command, the values pointed to by data are no longer valid (that is *(data.data) will have a new value). With hindsight this is obvious, but it caught me out, and maybe a warning in the man page would be appropriate. (Or maybe it is there and I didn't see it.) 3. This is nothing to do with FreeBSD, but maybe someone here knows. In Red-Hat Linux the dbopen man page is the same as for FreeBSD, but in the include files dbopen is supposed to have an extra 2nd argument of type DBX*. Anyone know what this is? The programs I wrote for FreeBSD won't compile in Red-Hat Linux. -- Stephen Montgomery-Smith stephen@math.missouri.edu http://www.math.missouri.edu/~stephen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 8: 6:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.scorpions.net (mail.scorpions.net [207.13.229.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E07237B403 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 08:06:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fygrave@mail.scorpions.net) Received: from localhost (fygrave@localhost) by mail.scorpions.net (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f68F5Es14264 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:05:14 -0400 Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:05:14 -0400 (EDT) From: To: Subject: IPPROTO_RAW funkness Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks, Just noticed 2 interesting things while reading ip/icmp datagrams off the IPPROTO_RAW socket (i.g.): int on =1; sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_RAW, IPPROTO_ICMP); setsockopt(sock, IPPROTO_IP, IP_HDRINCL, (char *)&on, sizeof(on)) < 0); /* works without sockopt too! */ ... recvfrom(sock, ...); 1. ip->ip_off bits get cleaned (even if DF, reserved bits are in original datagram.) 2. ip->ip_len is ip->ip_hl<<2 bytes off (i.g. contains the length of the data itself, without the header length). Just curious if there was any reason behind to have raw socket behaving this way, or just something is overlooked? (or I am messing something up :)) FreeBSD boozo 4.3-STABLE FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE #1: Thu Jun 14 23:04:01 ICT 2001 root@boozo:/usr/src/sys/compile/BOOZO i386 (the snapshot was fetched at the same day when the kernel was built). cheers, -Fyodor -- http://www.notlsd.net PGP fingerprint = 56DD 1511 DDDA 56D7 99C7 B288 5CE5 A713 0969 A4D1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 9:29:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDC4E37B406 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 09:29:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Bsdguru@aol.com) Received: from Bsdguru@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id n.9.17f6a945 (4328) for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:29:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Bsdguru@aol.com Message-ID: <9.17f6a945.2879e44f@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:29:03 EDT Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral To: hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In a message dated 7/6/01 4:00:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, billf@mu.org writes: > > Nothing BSDi ever did made any sense, so why does this suprise you? The > fact > > that BSDi didnt nothing positive for FreeBSD doesnt surprise me at all. > > Luckily, with this post to the mailing list you can join the ranks of doing > nothing positive for the project. Congrats! > I seriously doubt if I am the only one who is beyond disappointed in BSDI's "contribution" to FreeBSD. They didnt make it substantially more popular nor did they provide much critical support (ie important drivers remained broken, etc). The fact that they provided their excess hardware to some developers is helpful but not nearly the value they promised. The "people" they provided at trade shows was to promote their agenda, not FreeBSDs. Im sorry, but did anyone else see any acceleration in freebsd evolution during the bsdi period? Seemed like the same folks doing the same old stuff to me. Having BSDI decide what drivers got written (according to their own agenda) by providing hardware is potentially more damaging than helpful, depending of course on their agenda, which was never clear. All they did was help to tear down some very useful existing relationships, put a ridiculously expensive "distribution" in bookstores which most likely had a negative effect on the public perception of the project, and then funnel the entire mess over to WR who now has some other unknown agenda that apparently, many here dont buy into. Bravo. B To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 9:30:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02C5937B401 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 09:30:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Bsdguru@aol.com) Received: from Bsdguru@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id 3.10f.234f1eb (4328); Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:29:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Bsdguru@aol.com Message-ID: <10f.234f1eb.2879e474@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:29:40 EDT Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral To: rh@matriplex.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In a message dated 7/7/01 6:52:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rh@matriplex.com writes: > But as far as "added-value" goes, why wouldn't minimum cost be an > added value to a potential customer? I think that the companies > like Cheapbytes serve a social purpose in this regard. > If theres one thing that non-unix people have learned about unix is that the "cost" of the product is insignificant compared to the value of time in getting it to function. Its already free to anyone who knows what they are doing. A "distribution" has to add value by cutting the time to usefulness. Bryan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 10: 5:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9E3637B407 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 10:05:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f68H5eg13768; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:05:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f68H5eJ79593; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:05:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200107081705.f68H5eJ79593@harmony.village.org> To: mjacob@feral.com Subject: Re: best way to migrate to a new disk Cc: Jeff Mohler , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 08 Jul 2001 00:41:16 PDT." References: Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 11:05:40 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message Matthew Jacob writes: : Only if you want to be here until next tuesday. Solaris ufsdump runs 8 times : as fast. Yes. Mostly because it uses async io and a couple other tricks (Dworkin Muller did a lot of work on ufsdump on solaris to speed it up). Our fsck could also run faster, using similar techniques. : /dev you can and should always remake. Typically it's only sa0 out of the : generic set that tar skips. sa0.ctl if I recall correctly. cpio does handle them correctly. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 10: 6:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from a.mx.everquick.net (a.mx.everquick.net [216.89.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BB7E37B401 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 10:06:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eddy+public+spam@noc.everquick.net) Received: from localhost (eddy@localhost) by a.mx.everquick.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f68H6bt03262; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:06:37 GMT X-EverQuick-No-Abuse: Report any e-mail abuse to Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:06:36 +0000 (GMT) From: "E.B. Dreger" To: Bsdguru@aol.com Cc: rh@matriplex.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <10f.234f1eb.2879e474@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:29:40 EDT > From: Bsdguru@aol.com > If theres one thing that non-unix people have learned about unix > is that the "cost" of the product is insignificant compared to > the value of time in getting it to function. Its already free to > anyone who knows what they are doing. A "distribution" has to add > value by cutting the time to usefulness. Precisely why I dislike(d) RedHat. Hairy SysV-style init scripts, tons of setuid root binaries, every daemon under the sun running by default... ick! Yet this is the most popular distro among newbies, simply because they can get the illusion of results without any Clue. *ix also increases awareness of what one _should_ know. Look how easy it is to crack an out-of-the-box NT4/5 install. Just because one can "get results" doesn't mean that it's the right way. If somebody needs wizards, singing mice, and dancing teddy bears to bind an IP to a NIC, are they really competent enough to run a network? Sorry, not knowing what the @#$! one is doing does not translate into the OS having a high time until usefulness. IMHO, FreeBSD's TUU and TCO are _so_ much lower than Linux or NT... that's one of the non-technical reasons that I love it so. On a totally different subject, I'm curious: seems like such an ironic e-mail address that I must enquire about the story behind that one... Eddy --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. - EverQuick Internet Division Phone: +1 (316) 794-8922 Wichita/(Inter)national Phone: +1 (785) 865-5885 Lawrence --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:23:58 +0000 (GMT) From: A Trap To: blacklist@brics.com Subject: Please ignore this portion of my mail signature. These last few lines are a trap for address-harvesting spambots. Do NOT send mail to , or you are likely to be blocked. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 10: 8:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tarakan-network.com (chojin.adsl.nerim.net [62.4.22.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A58D537B403 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 10:08:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@tarakan-network.com) Received: from chojin (chojin [192.168.69.2]) by tarakan-network.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with SMTP id f68H8nV88062 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:08:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@tarakan-network.com) Message-ID: <000d01c107d0$9555ba60$0245a8c0@chojin> From: "Chojin" To: References: <10f.234f1eb.2879e474@aol.com> Subject: Create a FreeBSD bootable CD Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:08:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, Someone could tell me how create a bootable FreeBSD CD ? I cannot use a floppy image because it is too small to put my kernel (1.5 Mo), and I cant create a 2.88 Mb floppy image (as I don't have the drive). Then how create a freebsd boot image which use the real CD space to put all files I want ? If you have any script too, it would be cool :-) Regards, Chojin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 11:20:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [64.0.106.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74E6F37B401 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:20:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scanner@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (scanner@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA02693; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 14:19:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 14:19:25 -0400 (EDT) From: To: "E.B. Dreger" Cc: Bsdguru@aol.com, rh@matriplex.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Sorry, not knowing what the @#$! one is doing does not translate > into the OS having a high time until usefulness. IMHO, FreeBSD's > TUU and TCO are _so_ much lower than Linux or NT... that's one of > the non-technical reasons that I love it so. Whats the saying, "knowledge without understanding is a dangerous thing" ? ============================================================================= -Chris Watson (316) 326-3862 | Sr. Unix Administrator Work: chris.watson@twa.com | Trans World Airlines, Kansas City, MO Home: scanner@jurai.net | http://www.twa.com ============================================================================= WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?" LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?" BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?" ============================================================================= irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution! ICQ: 20016186 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 12:26:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from proxon.bnc.net (proxon.bnc.net [62.225.99.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1D8C37B401 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:26:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from noses@proxon.bnc.net) Received: (from noses@localhost) by proxon.bnc.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f68JQm687185; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:26:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from noses) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:26:48 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200107081926.f68JQm687185@proxon.bnc.net> From: Noses To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Organization: Noses' cave In-Reply-To: <3B478E9A.2BC9FF40@softweyr.com> User-Agent: tin/1.5.6-20000803 ("Dust") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-STABLE (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In <3B478E9A.2BC9FF40@softweyr.com> wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) wrote: >> > If so - where will the funeral be held and will there be Jordan soup >> > for sharing and grokking (although I'd prefer some other people to >> > donate some food)? > > Soup? Jordan? Never. A nice thick stew with beer broth, yes. Could we agree on Irish Stew? Maybe we should ask Jordan for recommendations. > Obviously it will be served in the Apple Cafeteria, though probably not in > the natural & organic section. What did they feed him on? Inauguration speeches? Microsoft commercials? I can't see anything supernatural or anorganic about him... Noses. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 12:36:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from proxon.bnc.net (proxon.bnc.net [62.225.99.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C28837B403 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:36:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from noses@proxon.bnc.net) Received: (from noses@localhost) by proxon.bnc.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f68JaX087339; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:36:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from noses) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:36:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200107081936.f68JaX087339@proxon.bnc.net> From: Noses To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Organization: Noses' cave In-Reply-To: <20010706130629R.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> User-Agent: tin/1.5.6-20000803 ("Dust") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-STABLE (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In <20010706130629R.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> jkh@osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard) wrote: > You disagree with me that Walnut Creek CDROM is gone? I would... Three days ago they (Walnut Creek CDROM) charged my credit card with USD 34.95. That's quite a greedy corpse, wouldn't you say? 8-) Take that mail as a rather bad satire and sit down having a cup of tea or we will really have to serve you as (soup|stew|whatever you like) as you'll discorporate unintentionally (which would be deeply deplored). Noses. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 13: 4:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jhs.muc.de (jhs.muc.de [193.149.49.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D604037B408 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 13:04:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhs@jhs.muc.de) Received: from park.jhs.private (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jhs.muc.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f68Drec45358; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 13:53:40 GMT (envelope-from jhs@park.jhs.private) Message-Id: <200107081353.f68Drec45358@jhs.muc.de> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: bod@FreeBSDFoundation.org Subject: Re. The Foundation [was Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral] In-Reply-To: Message from Richard Hodges of "Sat, 07 Jul 2001 10:30:06 PDT." Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 15:53:40 +0200 From: "Julian Stacey Jhs@jhs.muc.de" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hackers, CC bod@FreeBSDFoundation.org Wind River might be cautious & slow when considering donating the FreeBSD trademark to a FreeBSD Foundation controlled by a board of just 3 directors, that even FreeBSD people are just getting to know of, & have yet to evaluate as `The Foundation'. Wind River might find it easier & quicker to decide to donate the trademark to the foundation, if the foundation comprised not just 3 self appointed directors, but perhaps included at least 3 non executive directors on their board. Adding 3 non-execs might increase the assurance of others too, not just WR. BOD could invite core to nominate the first few that BOD appoint. The non execs could retire by chronological rotation, as real directors do. As I recall FreeBSD Inc (ie jkh & dg, a team of 2) once held the trademark, then it moved to Walnut, then BSDi, then Wind River. If DEC can be bought by Compaq, & British Telecom can run into financial trouble, I see no reason to believe Wind River to be a magic safe haven, but equally, FreeBSD Foundation with just 3 on the board, has merely a 50% greater attraction as a safe haven run by 3 FreeBSD trustees, than FreeBSD Inc. had with a team of 2. Safety in numbers: If BOD want just 3 execs to make operations easy, fine, _But_ if BOD want us to be broadly reaasured that they will be a safe haven for FreeBSD assets such as the trademark, It'd look much better if BOD appointed some non-execs to their board, purely in a supervisory/trustee, non-exec role. The sooner BOD appoint a handfull of non-execs, some nominated by core, the sooner it'll be easy to encourage Wind River to donate the trademark, before who knows what might happen at, to, or within Wind River ? Julian J.Stacey Munich Unix (FreeBSD, Linux etc) Consultant http://bim.bsn.com/~jhs/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 13:54: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62C3D37B405 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 13:54:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f68KrVn53496; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 22:53:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Brian Somers Cc: Richard Hodges , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 08 Jul 2001 04:02:20 BST." <200107080302.f6832Kn42932@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 22:53:31 +0200 Message-ID: <53494.994625611@critter> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200107080302.f6832Kn42932@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org>, Brian Somers writes: >I'm not having a go at Cheapbytes. I'm just saying that their CDs >should be labeled official or unofficial based on their content. If >they want to drop the base ISO image onto a CD and sell it, then >they're as official as anybody else. Right, and what are you going to do about some random company in Elbonia who labels and "unapproved" cd as "Official" ? One should never makes rules one can't enforce... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 13:59:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from maxim.gbch.net (gw.gbch.net [203.24.22.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3DEF737B407 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 13:59:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjb@gbch.net) Received: (qmail 74372 invoked by uid 1001); 9 Jul 2001 06:59:14 +1000 Message-ID: X-Posted-By: GJB-Post 2.21 16-Jun-2001 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386 X-Location: Brisbane, Australia; 27.49841S 152.98439E X-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb.html X-Image-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/gjb-auug048.gif X-GPG-Fingerprint: EBB2 2A92 A79D 1533 AC00 3C46 5D83 B6FB 4B04 B7D6 X-PGP-Public-Keys: http://www.gbch.net/keys.html Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 06:59:14 +1000 From: Greg Black To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Brian Somers , Richard Hodges , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <53494.994625611@critter> In-reply-to: <53494.994625611@critter> of Sun, 08 Jul 2001 22:53:31 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: | In message <200107080302.f6832Kn42932@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org>, Brian Somers writes: | | >I'm not having a go at Cheapbytes. I'm just saying that their CDs | >should be labeled official or unofficial based on their content. If | >they want to drop the base ISO image onto a CD and sell it, then | >they're as official as anybody else. | | Right, and what are you going to do about some random company | in Elbonia who labels and "unapproved" cd as "Official" ? | | One should never makes rules one can't enforce... Perhaps this labelling can be in the form of information on the FreeBSD.ORG web site that lists distributions that merit the "official" label. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 14: 3:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Awfulhak.org (gw.Awfulhak.org [217.204.245.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 762BC37B408 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 14:03:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by Awfulhak.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f68L3A405382; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 22:03:10 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f68L4Vn15187; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 22:04:31 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200107082104.f68L4Vn15187@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Greg Black Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Brian Somers , Richard Hodges , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, brian@Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: Message from Greg Black of "Mon, 09 Jul 2001 06:59:14 +1000." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 22:04:31 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > | In message <200107080302.f6832Kn42932@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org>, Brian Somers writes: > | > | >I'm not having a go at Cheapbytes. I'm just saying that their CDs > | >should be labeled official or unofficial based on their content. If > | >they want to drop the base ISO image onto a CD and sell it, then > | >they're as official as anybody else. > | > | Right, and what are you going to do about some random company > | in Elbonia who labels and "unapproved" cd as "Official" ? > | > | One should never makes rules one can't enforce... > > Perhaps this labelling can be in the form of information on the > FreeBSD.ORG web site that lists distributions that merit the > "official" label. That seems to make a lot of sense. In this context, ``official'' really means ``sanctioned by the FreeBSD project''. -- Brian http://www.freebsd-services.com/ Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 14:47:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from aslan.scsiguy.com (aslan.scsiguy.com [63.229.232.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F5A937B401 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 14:47:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gibbs@scsiguy.com) Received: from scsiguy.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.scsiguy.com (8.11.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f68LlIU93022; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:47:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gibbs@scsiguy.com) Message-Id: <200107082147.f68LlIU93022@aslan.scsiguy.com> To: "Julian Stacey Jhs@jhs.muc.de" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, bod@FreeBSDFoundation.org Subject: Re: Re. The Foundation [was Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral] In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 08 Jul 2001 15:53:40 +0200." <200107081353.f68Drec45358@jhs.muc.de> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 15:47:18 -0600 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Hackers, CC bod@FreeBSDFoundation.org > >Wind River might be cautious & slow when considering donating the >FreeBSD trademark to a FreeBSD Foundation controlled by a board of >just 3 directors, that even FreeBSD people are just getting to know >of, & have yet to evaluate as `The Foundation'. I believe that all of the members of the Foundation's current board are well known to the FreeBSD community. That said, the community will always be able to vote their level of confidence based on whether they financially support the Foundation. As was mentioned in the FAQ, the Foundation will not engage in any further activities until sufficient funds arrive. (To those of you who have already donated - Thanks for the support!) >Wind River might find it easier & quicker to decide to donate the >trademark to the foundation, if the foundation comprised not just >3 self appointed directors, but perhaps included at least 3 non >executive directors on their board. The current BOD has only one "self-appointed" director, me. This came as a natural consequence of spear-heading the formation of the Foundation. The other two directors I convinced to join^W^W^Wchose because of their proven track record as responsible individuals who have worked to further the FreeBSD cause. The FreeBSD Foundation is an administrative body who's role is to efficiently collect and disburse funds to better the project. Core has never proven itself adept at administration. For this reason, the Foundation is a completely separate entity explicitly structured to handle these, somewhat tedious and boring, activities. >Adding 3 non-execs might increase the assurance of others too, not >just WR. BOD could invite core to nominate the first few that BOD >appoint. The non execs could retire by chronological rotation, as >real directors do. The Foundation's current BOD is running with the bare minimum number of directors and officers as required by the IRS. The BOD has always planned to add to its membership (5 to 7 directors in total), but in these early days of operation the Foundation is simply not mature enough to warrant the extra bureaucracy of additional directors. As for selection of future directors, the assumption has always been that the pool of candidates would encompass those from the business, academic and charity circles with expertise that would benefit the operation of the Foundation. The directors must support the administrative nature of the Foundation, and the skill set of future directors will reflect this. Having directors from outside the FreeBSD community will broaden the perspective and enhance the operation of the Foundation. Due care to avoid any type of "conflict of interest" issues will be exercised at all times. >As I recall FreeBSD Inc (ie jkh & dg, a team of 2) once held the >trademark, I could be wrong, but I don't believe that this was ever the case. >The sooner BOD appoint a handfull of non-execs, some nominated by core, >the sooner it'll be easy to encourage Wind River to donate the trademark, >before who knows what might happen at, to, or within Wind River ? The Foundation has yet to approach Wind River about the Trademark, so I cannot speculate on their disposition. -- Justin Secretary/Tresurer The FreeBSD Foundation To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 14:57:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A356137B403 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 14:57:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from culverk@wam.umd.edu) Received: from rac3.wam.umd.edu (IDENT:root@rac3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.143]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09633 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:57:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac3.wam.umd.edu (IDENT:sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA25037 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (culverk@localhost) by rac3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25033 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:57:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac3.wam.umd.edu: culverk owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:57:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Wayne Culver To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: NAT (ipf/ipnat) latency problems Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Recently over the weekend my friends and I had a lanparty, and we wanted to use FreeBSD as his gateway machine (to replace Win2k) to his cable modem. When I got there, he and 3 other people had been playing a game online (over the internet through the Win2k NAT, the game was counterstrike for those who care) and they were seeing really good pings and no packet loss (pings of 15-39ms). I set up the FreeBSD server (which I had already preconfigured for the task) using ipf and ipnat with very simple rules (ipf passes all traffic in and out, and map 192.168.0.0/28 -> 0/32 portmap 20000:40000 as the ipnat rule. The portmap is so that multiple people from our lan can connect to the same counterstrike server). I pinged the counterstrike server online from our NAT machine and the NAT machine got 15-30ms pings, but when I went online in counterstrike and went to that server, the ping was about 200 ms, and if more than 2 people connected to any counterstrike server at a time, the ping went up to 1500-2000 ms. I read about some settings to the kernel's timecounters that might fix the problem, so I rebuilt a kernel with the HZ=1000 option and rebooted the router. We still had the same problem, so I tried using natd and ipfw. This was even slower. My question is: why could 4 people total connect through a win2k NAT server (using 2 3com 90x 10/100 cards, and a 933MHz PIII) through the same server, and maintain a 15 - 30 ms ping and no packet loss, when with FreeBSD using an 800 MHz athlon with 2 DEC 21140A ethernet cards, or with 2 intel (fxp) cards (we tried both) we maxed out at 2 people connected to that same server we got a lot of packet loss and really high (200-2000ms depending on how many people are connected )??? Thanks a lot ... Kenneth Culver To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 16:27:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87F4137B403 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:27:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA09126 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:27:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:27:25 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: deliberate kernel panic? Message-ID: <20010708192725.A9093@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I'm writing an article on kernel panics -- specifically, how to prepare for one, how to deal with one, and a cookbook on what to do to give an admin the best possible chance of getting help with the issue. Unfortunately, I haven't built a panicing kernel in years. Is there any way to force a system to panic in such a way as to save a core? I'm sure someone out there has a little program that creates a panic. :) Also, I've found extensive information on how to set up a system, how to save a core, and so on. What I haven't found is what you folks would like from the debug kernel in a trouble report. (I know about dmesg, etc, of course!) What should a user type in kgdb to get information for the initial report? I've seen people say that they have a debug kernel, and be told what to type. Is this the accepted standard? Slightly related question: can you set a system to reboot automatically at a panic, save a core, and continue? Thanks, Michael -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 16:37:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from scientia.demon.co.uk (scientia.demon.co.uk [212.228.14.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4231A37B401 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:37:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ben@FreeBSD.org) Received: from strontium.shef.vinosystems.com ([192.168.91.36] ident=root) by scientia.demon.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #1) id 15JO6r-000H8g-00; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 00:37:05 +0100 Received: (from ben@localhost) by strontium.shef.vinosystems.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f68Nb4v17140; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:37:04 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from ben@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: strontium.shef.vinosystems.com: ben set sender to ben@FreeBSD.org using -f Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:37:04 +0100 From: Ben Smithurst To: Michael Lucas Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: deliberate kernel panic? Message-ID: <20010709003704.O289@strontium.shef.vinosystems.com> References: <20010708192725.A9093@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010708192725.A9093@blackhelicopters.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Michael Lucas wrote: > Unfortunately, I haven't built a panicing kernel in years. Is there > any way to force a system to panic in such a way as to save a core? > I'm sure someone out there has a little program that creates a panic. :) Build a kernel with DDB, press Ctrl-Alt-Esc, type "panic". > Slightly related question: can you set a system to reboot > automatically at a panic, save a core, and continue? It does that by default AFAIK. The only case it doesn't if if you have DDB set without DDB_UNATTENDED. -- Ben Smithurst / ben@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 16:42:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E83C437B401; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:42:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA09173; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:42:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:42:09 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: Ben Smithurst Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: deliberate kernel panic? Message-ID: <20010708194209.B9093@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20010708192725.A9093@blackhelicopters.org> <20010709003704.O289@strontium.shef.vinosystems.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20010709003704.O289@strontium.shef.vinosystems.com>; from ben@FreeBSD.org on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 12:37:04AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thanks! This was exactly what I'm looking for! On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 12:37:04AM +0100, Ben Smithurst wrote: > Michael Lucas wrote: > > > Unfortunately, I haven't built a panicing kernel in years. Is there > > any way to force a system to panic in such a way as to save a core? > > I'm sure someone out there has a little program that creates a panic. :) > > Build a kernel with DDB, press Ctrl-Alt-Esc, type "panic". > > > Slightly related question: can you set a system to reboot > > automatically at a panic, save a core, and continue? > > It does that by default AFAIK. The only case it doesn't if if you have > DDB set without DDB_UNATTENDED. > > -- > Ben Smithurst / ben@FreeBSD.org -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 17:45:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [216.33.66.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1725337B401 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:45:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1098) id CD6E481D05; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:45:34 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:45:34 -0500 From: Bill Fumerola To: Greg Black Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010708194534.X47870@elvis.mu.org> References: <53494.994625611@critter> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from gjb@gbch.net on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 06:59:14AM +1000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.3-FEARSOME-20010617 i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 06:59:14AM +1000, Greg Black wrote: > Perhaps this labelling can be in the form of information on the > FreeBSD.ORG web site that lists distributions that merit the > "official" label. so this list would be controlled by those who can make changes to the FreeBSD web site, right? well, then lets start the list up: $1,000 - in the list $2,000 - I'll bold your entry $2,000 - I'll put your entry at the top ... or maybe we should remind ourselves that the only thing official about FreeBSD is the code. Let the CD vendors figure out ways to attract customers from each other, lets worry more about ways to attract 'customers' from other operating systems. -- Bill Fumerola - security yahoo / Yahoo! inc. - fumerola@yahoo-inc.com / billf@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 18:11: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [216.33.66.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E49BD37B406 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:10:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1098) id 89D6381D05; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:10:57 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:10:57 -0500 From: Bill Fumerola To: Bsdguru@aol.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010708201057.Y47870@elvis.mu.org> References: <9.17f6a945.2879e44f@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <9.17f6a945.2879e44f@aol.com>; from Bsdguru@aol.com on Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 12:29:03PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.3-FEARSOME-20010617 i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 12:29:03PM -0400, Bsdguru@aol.com wrote: > > Luckily, with this post to the mailing list you can join the ranks of doing > > nothing positive for the project. Congrats! > > > I seriously doubt if I am the only one who is beyond disappointed in BSDI's > "contribution" to FreeBSD. I actually made detailed replies to each of your points individually but trashed them when I realized they could all be simplified into one: You are a troll and a cluebie. Having said that, post-WC BSDi funded and supported more things then you obviously are aware of. You may want to do a little more research until you accuse them of being anything but positive for the project. For every point you just accused them of being absent and non-beneficial I can name multiple major contributions they funded, supported with people, or flat out donated. -- Bill Fumerola / billf@FreeBSD.org ps. at least they didn't IPO and lose so much money on hype that they were sued. pps. I never worked for: Walnut Creek CDROM, BSDi, or WindRiver. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 18:29:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.ovis.net (ns1.ovis.net [207.0.147.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 253F137B401 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:29:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chromexa@ovis.net) Received: from 207.0.147.75 (s8.pm5.ovis.net [207.0.147.75]) by ns1.ovis.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA31822; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:29:04 -0400 Message-Id: <200107090129.VAA31822@ns1.ovis.net> Reply-To: chromexa From: chromexa@ovis.net To: Bill Fumerola , Greg Black Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: re: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: 08 Jul 2001 21:20:04 -0500 X-Mailer: NeoPlanet Version: 5.2.0.1561 X-ID: 3BEB18605EB911D3BC29444553540000 X-Brand: NeoPlanet X-Build: 1561 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ** Original Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral > ** Original Sender: Bill Fumerola > ** Original Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:45:58 -0400 > ** Original Message follows... > > On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 06:59:14AM +1000, Greg Black wrote: > > > Perhaps this labelling can be in the form of information on the > > FreeBSD.ORG web site that lists distributions that merit the > > "official" label. > > so this list would be controlled by those who can make changes > to the FreeBSD web site, right? > > well, then lets start the list up: > > $1,000 - in the list > $2,000 - I'll bold your entry > $2,000 - I'll put your entry at the top > > .... or maybe we should remind ourselves that the only thing > official about FreeBSD is the code. Let the CD vendors figure > out ways to attract customers from each other, lets worry more > about ways to attract 'customers' from other operating systems. > > -- > Bill Fumerola - security yahoo / Yahoo! inc. > - fumerola@yahoo-inc.com / billf@FreeBSD.org > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message >** --------- End Original Message ----------- ** > I am not happy with reducing things to a purely capital oriented system. I don't know if this will work or not. It just isn't that simple. To attract people from other operating systems, FreeBSD should be easy to install, configure and use. If I have to type apparent gibberish at something to get it to go it should be explained. Agreed I might even pay a few Buckeroos extra for that. I want my pharmacist down the street to understand it, and know the difference between commands the way (s)he knows the difference betweeen Tylenol and Vicodin ES and when each should be used etc. But expecting money to solve all problems is silly. If it is difficult to install, configure and use a few very angry people who made the large payment. This is the big thing. So I want to see it work nicely. I want to hear people say: "Well I know why the system froze up...and I fixed it" and not "well I dunno I deleted this or I did this and it magicly worked.and things got better. So I think and feel; this is needed rather than turning into capitalist romantics and expecting all will turn out well. Have Fun, Sends Steve Download NeoPlanet at http://www.neoplanet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 19: 8:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B17537B403 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:08:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rminnich@lanl.gov) Received: from white.acl.lanl.gov (white.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.100]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.11.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id f6928Hp4150628 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:08:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 25230 invoked by uid 3499); 9 Jul 2001 02:08:17 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 02:08:17 -0000 Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:08:17 -0600 (MDT) From: Ronald G Minnich X-X-Sender: To: Cc: Subject: Re: best way to migrate to a new disk In-Reply-To: <200107080627.f686RGJ76468@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Warner Losh wrote: > In message Matthew Jacob writes: > : tar cfl - . | (cd /altroot/ && tar xpf -) > > Don't use tar. It loses devices, can't handle holey files well and a > number of other minor clitches. Use dump instead. yes, tar is a horrible way to do this. newfs /dev/whatever mount /dev/whatever /new cd /new dump 0f - /dev/your-root-device | restore rf - At least that's how I do it ... ron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 19:14:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (pc-62-31-42-140-hy.blueyonder.co.uk [62.31.42.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A36AF37B405 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:14:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f68NIWX05812; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:18:32 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:18:31 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Brian Somers Cc: Greg Black , Poul-Henning Kamp , Richard Hodges , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010709001831.A5729@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> References: <200107082104.f68L4Vn15187@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="mP3DRpeJDSE+ciuQ" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200107082104.f68L4Vn15187@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org>; from brian@Awfulhak.org on Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 10:04:31PM +0100 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --mP3DRpeJDSE+ciuQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 10:04:31PM +0100, Brian Somers wrote: > > Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > Perhaps this labelling can be in the form of information on the > > FreeBSD.ORG web site that lists distributions that merit the > > "official" label. >=20 > That seems to make a lot of sense. In this context, ``official''=20 > really means ``sanctioned by the FreeBSD project''. Sounds like prime fodder for the "Obtaining FreeBSD" section of the Handbook (which should be linked to by everywhere on the website that talks about getting FreeBSD -- if it doesn't, it's a bug which should be PR'd). N --=20 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- --mP3DRpeJDSE+ciuQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtI6kYACgkQk6gHZCw343X4pgCfY6cU57mmI3j6Tv8FW+upNtOL kdcAn1icFPBaWufa7KedVQLQmLb2CD+c =zGD4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --mP3DRpeJDSE+ciuQ-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 20:14:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from maxim.gbch.net (gw.gbch.net [203.24.22.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C846937B406 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:14:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjb@gbch.net) Received: (qmail 84993 invoked by uid 1001); 9 Jul 2001 13:14:11 +1000 Message-ID: X-Posted-By: GJB-Post 2.21 16-Jun-2001 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386 X-Location: Brisbane, Australia; 27.49841S 152.98439E X-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb.html X-Image-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/gjb-auug048.gif X-GPG-Fingerprint: EBB2 2A92 A79D 1533 AC00 3C46 5D83 B6FB 4B04 B7D6 X-PGP-Public-Keys: http://www.gbch.net/keys.html Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 13:14:11 +1000 From: Greg Black To: Bill Fumerola Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <53494.994625611@critter> <20010708194534.X47870@elvis.mu.org> In-reply-to: <20010708194534.X47870@elvis.mu.org> of Sun, 08 Jul 2001 19:45:34 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: | On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 06:59:14AM +1000, Greg Black wrote: | | > Perhaps this labelling can be in the form of information on the | > FreeBSD.ORG web site that lists distributions that merit the | > "official" label. | | so this list would be controlled by those who can make changes | to the FreeBSD web site, right? | | well, then lets start the list up: | | $1,000 - in the list | $2,000 - I'll bold your entry | $2,000 - I'll put your entry at the top | | ... or maybe we should remind ourselves that the only thing | official about FreeBSD is the code. Let the CD vendors figure | out ways to attract customers from each other, lets worry more | about ways to attract 'customers' from other operating systems. I think you may have missed my point -- what I'm concerned about here is providing a guide to people who want to obtain something that they can count on as being a "genuine" FreeBSD Release. We can't rely on the claims of vendors, but we could possibly rely on some statement on the web site that indicated that vendor X's FreeBSD-4.4-Release CDs or DVDs did contain the same stuff that we would get if we were foolish enough to attempt to download it from FreeBSD.ORG. I, for one, would welcome something like that. I've been a more or less satisfied subscriber to the Walnut Creek offering since the 2.2.x days and will be looking for something to replace that. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 20:14:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.freebsd.org (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28E6837B403 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:14:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.freebsd.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f693DUt04652; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:13:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: jhs@jhs.muc.de Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, bod@FreeBSDFoundation.org Subject: Re: Re. The Foundation [was Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral] In-Reply-To: <200107081353.f68Drec45358@jhs.muc.de> References: <200107081353.f68Drec45358@jhs.muc.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010708201330U.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 20:13:30 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 23 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: "Julian Stacey Jhs@jhs.muc.de" Subject: Re. The Foundation [was Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral] Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 15:53:40 +0200 > As I recall FreeBSD Inc (ie jkh & dg, a team of 2) once held the > trademark, then it moved to Walnut, then BSDi, then Wind River. Just to clarify this point - FreeBSD, Inc. has never held the FreeBSD trademark. It was initially filed for by Bob Bruce of Walnut Creek CDROM. This was initially alarming to some, but once it became clear that trademarks must be defended (that's non-optional) and trademark defense requires expensive lawyers, it was deemed a better solution to simply leave it with a company that actually had any money to spend. To say that the subsequent events with BSDi and WindRiver were unforseen would be an understatement, and now we've got to figure out the best way of dealing with a potentially sticky situation. I say "potentially" because I think it's still within our grasp to resolve the matter without undue fuss, but if anyone on either side is determined to make it sticky then things will be. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 23:15:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.palnet.com (mail.palnet.com [217.66.226.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D25337B401 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:15:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mustafa@palnet.com) Received: from mustafa (dogbert.palnet.com [192.116.17.51]) by mail.palnet.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f696BKJ97250 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:11:20 +0300 (IDT) From: "Mustafa N. Deeb" To: Subject: deny this Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:54:01 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi all,, how can I tell sendmail to deny this >>> MAIL From:<> SIZE=1926 250 <>... Sender ok cheers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 23:21:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A188837B403 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:21:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=b775daa14863f56d40db5362b9e16387) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15JU1r-0000j4-00; Sun, 08 Jul 2001 23:56:19 -0600 Message-ID: <3B494783.1B2E985F@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 23:56:19 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Noses Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <200107081926.f68JQm687185@proxon.bnc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Noses wrote: > > In <3B478E9A.2BC9FF40@softweyr.com> wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) wrote: > >> > If so - where will the funeral be held and will there be Jordan soup > >> > for sharing and grokking (although I'd prefer some other people to > >> > donate some food)? > > > > Soup? Jordan? Never. A nice thick stew with beer broth, yes. > > Could we agree on Irish Stew? Maybe we should ask Jordan for > recommendations. > > > Obviously it will be served in the Apple Cafeteria, though probably not in > > the natural & organic section. > > What did they feed him on? Inauguration speeches? Microsoft commercials? I > can't see anything supernatural or anorganic about him... American food, which is rarely either natural or organic. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 8 23:23:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E544F37B406 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:23:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=130c0f0f6417f98da1b47af01d4c6b86) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15JT4U-0000hs-00; Sun, 08 Jul 2001 22:54:59 -0600 Message-ID: <3B493922.3AC700@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 22:54:58 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Greg Black , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <53494.994625611@critter> <20010708194534.X47870@elvis.mu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Fumerola wrote: > > so this list would be controlled by those who can make changes > to the FreeBSD web site, right? > > well, then lets start the list up: > > $1,000 - in the list > $2,000 - I'll bold your entry > $2,000 - I'll put your entry at the top And for a measly million dollars, I'll redirect FreeBSD.org to your web site. Payable directly to my account at Bank of the Caymans, of course. > ... or maybe we should remind ourselves that the only thing > official about FreeBSD is the code. Let the CD vendors figure > out ways to attract customers from each other, lets worry more > about ways to attract 'customers' from other operating systems. Bill and Jordan are right on this one, guys. We (as in FreeBSD) can put up the ISOs and every Tom, Dick and Harry with a CD burner can distribute FreeBSD, and differentiate themselves on packaging, sales channel, and customer service. Who knows, we might even get a few local shops to pre- install FreeBSD on a machine or two, with their own FreeBSD discs thrown in. It could happen. I'll talk to SuperDale and see if "Totally Awesome Computers" will do this, they run their web site on FreeBSD. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 0:18:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bugz.infotecs.ru (bugz.infotecs.ru [195.210.139.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBAA737B403 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:18:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vel@bugz.infotecs.ru) Received: (from vel@localhost) by bugz.infotecs.ru (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f697WdR00493 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:32:39 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from vel) From: "Eugene L. Vorokov" Message-Id: <200107090732.f697WdR00493@bugz.infotecs.ru> Subject: panic when returning error on MOD_LOAD To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:32:39 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I'm pretty confused with the fact that kernel panics when my module's event handler returns something greater than zero on MOD_LOAD. I wanted module to refuse to load when it can't find it's config file, so I thought I can return error code and it will not be loaded, and behaviour of module_register_init() and other related functions after quick look seems to be intended to do just that. That look very ugly ... what could I do wrong ? What is the proper way of doing what I wanted ? And oh yes, it's 4.2 system. Regards, Eugene To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 0:48:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C99037B403 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:48:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@nuxi.ucdavis.edu) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (root@trang.nuxi.com [206.40.252.115]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f697mDR26362; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:48:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f697m9G91156; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:48:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:48:09 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Matthew Jacob Cc: Warner Losh , Jeff Mohler , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: best way to migrate to a new disk Message-ID: <20010709004809.A89861@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from mjacob@feral.com on Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 12:42:58AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 12:42:58AM -0700, Matthew Jacob wrote: > I mean, Warner- you're right, but, well, I've been using tar to copy systems > for the last 5 years for *BSD, and, well, it really works best for me. But you're replying to a call for advice -- you did not prefix your advice that it works best for you because you know the limitations of it and you don't mind them.... In answering questions like this one, people would do well to consider the accuracy and completeness of their answers. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 1: 5:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bazooka.unixfreak.org (bazooka.unixfreak.org [63.198.170.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A19F37B407 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 01:05:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dima@unixfreak.org) Received: from hornet.unixfreak.org (hornet [63.198.170.140]) by bazooka.unixfreak.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62E0C3E2F; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 01:05:25 -0700 (PDT) To: "Eugene L. Vorokov" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: panic when returning error on MOD_LOAD In-Reply-To: <200107090732.f697WdR00493@bugz.infotecs.ru>; from vel@bugz.infotecs.ru on "Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:32:39 +0400 (MSD)" Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 01:05:25 -0700 From: Dima Dorfman Message-Id: <20010709080525.62E0C3E2F@bazooka.unixfreak.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Eugene L. Vorokov" writes: > Hello, > > I'm pretty confused with the fact that kernel panics when my module's > event handler returns something greater than zero on MOD_LOAD. I wanted > module to refuse to load when it can't find it's config file, so I > thought I can return error code and it will not be loaded, and behaviour > of module_register_init() and other related functions after quick look > seems to be intended to do just that. That look very ugly ... what could > I do wrong ? What is the proper way of doing what I wanted ? And oh yes, > it's 4.2 system. I can't reproduce this on -current or -stable. It's possible that it was fixed some time between 4.2 and -stable. If you could post the code that breaks it for you, however, we might be able to confirm that. (Alternatively, you could try a simple module that just does "return (EINVAL);" on MOD_LOAD and see if it still breaks.) > > Regards, > Eugene > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 1:59:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from scientia.demon.co.uk (scientia.demon.co.uk [212.228.14.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B067237B408 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 01:59:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ben@FreeBSD.org) Received: from strontium.shef.vinosystems.com ([192.168.91.36] ident=root) by scientia.demon.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #1) id 15JVD1-000CYj-00; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 08:11:55 +0100 Received: (from ben@localhost) by strontium.shef.vinosystems.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f697Bsu19050; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:11:54 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from ben@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: strontium.shef.vinosystems.com: ben set sender to ben@FreeBSD.org using -f Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:11:54 +0100 From: Ben Smithurst To: "Mustafa N. Deeb" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: deny this Message-ID: <20010709081154.P289@strontium.shef.vinosystems.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mustafa N. Deeb wrote: > how can I tell sendmail to deny this > >>>> MAIL From:<> SIZE=1926 > 250 <>... Sender ok 1. This is off-topic for freebsd-hackers. 2. Something like `killall sendmail' or `halt' might stop sendmail accepting such commands. 3. Why would you want to reject perfectly legitimate mail by making it deny such commands? -- Ben Smithurst / ben@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 2: 3:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from beastie.saturn-tech.com (beastie.saturn-tech.com [207.229.19.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E0E637B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 02:03:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drussell@saturn-tech.com) Received: from localhost (drussell@localhost) by beastie.saturn-tech.com (8.11.1/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f699OT595115; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 03:24:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drussell@saturn-tech.com) X-Authentication-Warning: beastie.saturn-tech.com: drussell owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 03:24:29 -0600 (MDT) From: Doug Russell To: Matthew Emmerton Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <018601c10767$5d70e430$1200a8c0@gsicomp.on.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Matthew Emmerton wrote: > > Richard Hodges wrote: > I'm not sure how much of a difference the "certificate" would make, as far > as import duties goes. I live in Canada (Toronto, Ontario), and accoriding ... > duty, 7% GST, 8% provincial tax, plus a $5.00 handling charge by Canada > Post. (So much for NAFTA!) So on a USD$30 set of CDs (CAD$45), that works > out to be about $15 in taxes and fees due to the classification. I don't Hehe.. Yes. It has become a bit rediculous :( I think I may start selling FreeBSD CDs here in Canada to avoid all this nonsense. You'd still have to pay GST, but the $5 handling fee is the one that REALLY bothers me on small purchases from the US. I wonder what kind of lot size I'd have to be ready for for a 4.4-RELEASE? Later...... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 2:32:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from beastie.saturn-tech.com (beastie.saturn-tech.com [207.229.19.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8348837B40A for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 02:32:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drussell@saturn-tech.com) Received: from localhost (drussell@localhost) by beastie.saturn-tech.com (8.11.1/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f699rgZ95169; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 03:53:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drussell@saturn-tech.com) X-Authentication-Warning: beastie.saturn-tech.com: drussell owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 03:53:42 -0600 (MDT) From: Doug Russell To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <3B493922.3AC700@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Wes Peters wrote: > customer service. Who knows, we might even get a few local shops to pre- > install FreeBSD on a machine or two, with their own FreeBSD discs thrown > in. It could happen. Heh.. We already do. :) I'm getting quite good at convincing small shops that they don't need their current operating system anymore. It is becoming quite popular. That's why I haven't have time to actually build websites and such. :) Later...... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 2:54: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.cosmo-project.de (srv1.cosmo-project.de [213.83.6.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A51E37B403 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 02:54:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ticso@mail.cicely.de) Received: from mail.cicely.de (cicely20 [10.1.1.22]) by srv1.cosmo-project.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f699s2V36109; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:54:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by mail.cicely.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f699soa23094; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:54:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:54:49 +0200 From: Bernd Walter To: "Mustafa N. Deeb" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: deny this Message-ID: <20010709115449.B22785@cicely20.cicely.de> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from mustafa@palnet.com on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 08:54:01AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 08:54:01AM +0200, Mustafa N. Deeb wrote: > how can I tell sendmail to deny this > > >>> MAIL From:<> SIZE=1926 > 250 <>... Sender ok You shouldn't! An empty envelope sender is used in bounced mails and blocking would reject all error informations. It is empty because it doesn't make sense to rebounce it if the original sender isn't addressable too. -- B.Walter COSMO-Project http://www.cosmo-project.de ticso@cicely.de Usergroup info@cosmo-project.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 4: 5:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.harmonic.co.il (jupiter.harmonic.co.il [192.116.140.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC3E837B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 04:05:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roman@harmonic.co.il) Received: by mail.harmonic.co.il (Postfix, from userid 1137) id 8277583; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:15:06 +0300 (IDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.harmonic.co.il (Postfix) with ESMTP id 635D26C for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:15:06 +0300 (IDT) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:15:05 +0300 (IDT) From: Roman Shterenzon To: Subject: Re: Unable to run linux unace (fwd) Message-ID: <20010709141439.C73818-100000@mail.harmonic.co.il> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Could someone please shed some light on this issue? Thank you very much in advance, --Roman Shterenzon, UNIX System Administrator and Consultant [ Xpert UNIX Systems Ltd., Herzlia, Israel. Tel: +972-9-9522361 ] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:01:02 +0300 (IDT) From: Roman Shterenzon To: Mikko Tyolajarvi Cc: "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Unable to run linux unace Quoting Mikko Tyolajarvi : > In local.freebsd.stable you write: > > >Quoting Roman Shterenzon : > > >> Hello, > >> I wanted to use linux unace from www.winace.com > >> (http://praf.nirvanet.net/winace/linunace203.tgz), > >> but unfortunately it doesn't work. > >> When I used truss on it, I've seen this: > > [...] > > >> linux_mremap(0x28109000,0x61000,0x81000,0x1) ERR#12 'Cannot > allocate > >> memory' > > [...] > > >This is what I get when I run it on remote linux system: > > >mremap(0x40000000, 135168, 266240, MREMAP_MAYMOVE) =3D 0x40000000 > > [...] > > >It doesn't give me any hints :( > > From a Linux mremap() man page: > > void *mremap(void *old_address, size_t old_size, size_t new_size, > =09 unsigned long flags); > > And from linux_mremap() in the linuxulator (linux_misc.c): > > if (args->new_len > args->old_len) { > p->p_retval[0] =3D 0; > return ENOMEM; > } > > To me it looks like extending a mmapped region with mremap() isn't > supported. > > $.02, > /Mikko > -- > Mikko > Ty=F6l=E4j=E4rvi_______________________________________mikko@rsasecurity.= com > RSA Security > Hmm.. Is it possible to completely unmap and then remap this region? And if it is, how? The fd is not known to the mremap handler. :( --Roman Shterenzon, UNIX System Administrator and Consultant [ Xpert UNIX Systems Ltd., Herzlia, Israel. Tel: +972-9-9522361 ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 4:53:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (ringworld.nanolink.com [195.24.48.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B139F37B403 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 04:53:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roam@orbitel.bg) Received: (qmail 538 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Jul 2001 11:58:00 -0000 Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:58:00 +0300 From: Peter Pentchev To: John Toon Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Installworld failure! Message-ID: <20010709145800.A505@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: John Toon , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <01070618590800.00255@Dionysus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <01070618590800.00255@Dionysus>; from john.toon@btinternet.com on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:13:08PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:13:08PM +0000, John Toon wrote: > Hi, > > Ack, make installworld failed! The Makefile seems broken: > > Dionysus# make installworld > mkdir -p /tmp/install.281 > for prog in [ awk cat chflags chmod chown date echo egrep find grep > install ln make makewhatis mtree mv perl rm sed sh sysctl test true > uname wc zic; do cp `which $prog` /tmp/install.281; done > usage: cp [-R [-H | -L | -P]] [-f | -i] [-pv] src target > cp [-R [-H | -L | -P]] [-f | -i] [-pv] src1 ... srcN directory > *** Error code 64 > > Stop in /usr/src. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src. > > > The cp command is being called incorrectly... > > Anyone got any suggestions? A very stupid question: you *did* to a 'make buildworld' first, right? :) G'luck, Peter -- What would this sentence be like if it weren't self-referential? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 4:59:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (ringworld.nanolink.com [195.24.48.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EEB6D37B403 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 04:59:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roam@orbitel.bg) Received: (qmail 575 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Jul 2001 12:03:56 -0000 Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:03:56 +0300 From: Peter Pentchev To: John Toon Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Installworld failure! Message-ID: <20010709150356.B505@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: John Toon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <01070618590800.00255@Dionysus> <20010709145800.A505@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010709145800.A505@ringworld.oblivion.bg>; from roam@orbitel.bg on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 02:58:00PM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 02:58:00PM +0300, Peter Pentchev wrote: > On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:13:08PM +0000, John Toon wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Ack, make installworld failed! The Makefile seems broken: > > > > Dionysus# make installworld > > mkdir -p /tmp/install.281 > > for prog in [ awk cat chflags chmod chown date echo egrep find grep > > install ln make makewhatis mtree mv perl rm sed sh sysctl test true > > uname wc zic; do cp `which $prog` /tmp/install.281; done > > usage: cp [-R [-H | -L | -P]] [-f | -i] [-pv] src target > > cp [-R [-H | -L | -P]] [-f | -i] [-pv] src1 ... srcN directory > > *** Error code 64 > > > > Stop in /usr/src. > > *** Error code 1 > > > > Stop in /usr/src. > > > > > > The cp command is being called incorrectly... > > > > Anyone got any suggestions? > > A very stupid question: you *did* to a 'make buildworld' first, right? :) That should have been "you did *do* a 'make buildworld' first".. G'luck, Peter -- You have, of course, just begun reading the sentence that you have just finished reading. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 8:19:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84FFD37B405 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:19:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.244.104.114.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.244.104.114]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25104; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B49CB95.F1861408@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 08:19:49 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Eugene L. Vorokov" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel panic when trying to use init's address space References: <200107051251.f65CpMp03726@bugz.infotecs.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Eugene L. Vorokov" wrote: > > Hello, > > Some time ago I was asking about I/O in kernel mode when I don't have > struct proc to use syscalls. Actually I just wanted my kld to read it's > config file on load. Terry told me it's tricky, and I was thinking > about possible workarounds. I decided to try the following: look for > some process, get it's struct proc, allocate memory in it's address > space using mmap() syscall and then use open() and read() syscalls, > passing that struct proc to them. I first decided to look for init > process for this, since it always exists. So it looked like that: Clever hack. > *buf = 0; > > However at this point kernel panics with page fault. I really don't > understand why could it be ... Mapping doesn't necessarily make your pages resident. If you touch a non-resident page, you will fault, and taking a fault in kernel mode will cause a panic. > Of course, I've found another workaround. I recalled that kldload > program is still active when my module loads, so I started looking > for it instead of init. It works just fine, I'm able to allocate > memory, use it and finally read my config file. But I'm curious, > why doesn't it work with init ? What's so special in init from this > point of view ? Because the process is running you, it's resident, and thus the mmap() is able to occur immediately, instead of waiting for the next time it runs. The init program is generally idle, when it's not respawning processes or reaping children, so it's going to be non-resident most of the time. Another way of dealing with this would be to create a kproc. Probably, you will still end up panic'ing in certain circumstances of heavy memory load, which would prevent the mmap() from getting the pages in core; as things stand now, you happen to be winning a race, but it is still a race. You should look at the quota code in FFS; it has to read and write quota structures in a file from the kernel. You could also look at the exec code, which reads the first part of a file from the kernel, in order to decide what to exec. If you go the quota route, be sure to use the generic VOP version of the functions, so you aren't tied too strongly to FFS. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 8:49: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C93337B40F for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:48:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f69FmNr86038 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:48:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:48:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: NAI Labs Announces DARPA-Funded FreeBSD Security Initiative Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG NAI Labs Announces DARPA-Funded FreeBSD Security Initiative Monday, July 09, 2001 NAI Labs Partners With DARPA to Secure Open Source Operating System $1.2 Million Contract to Enhance Operating System Security Services NAI Labs, the advanced research group within PGP Security, a division of Network Associates, Inc., announced a $1.2 million contract awarded by the U.S. Navy's Space and Warfare Systems Command to develop security extensions to the Open Source FreeBSD operating system. This work, which is funded under the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), will be done in partnership with members of the FreeBSD developer community, assuring tight system integration and rapid technology transfer. The project will be lead by NAI Labs Research Scientist Robert Watson, and NAI Labs Chief Scientist Lee Badger. The work will be done in part by sub-contractors from the FreeBSD development community, including Kirk McKusick, Poul-Henning Kamp, Jonathan Lemon, and Eivind Eklund. The $1.2 million will be paid over the life of an 18-month contract. Today's evolving military and business processes increasingly rely on Open Source systems to power network infrastructure, network services, file and database servers, and workstation environments. Unfortunately, these systems have traditionally lacked advanced security features, such as Mandatory Access Control, required for secure environments. Likewise, other advanced security techniques developed by the security research community have often failed to transition to off-the-shelf systems. The Community-Based Open Source Security (CBOSS) initiative will address these challenges through close collaboration with the FreeBSD developer community. FreeBSD is an advanced, high-performance operating system widely used by Internet Service Providers (ISPs), and as the basis for embedded network products including routers and firewalls, due to its scalability, ease of management, and cost effective operation. The system has also formed the basis for substantial parts of Apple's Mac OS X next generation operating system, as well as products from a variety of other operating system vendors. NAI Labs, in cooperation with a number of key FreeBSD developers, will enhance the FreeBSD operating system to offer several new security services, as well as improved assurance, providing a direct technology transfer path for security research. This will include the development or porting of specific security technologies, including NAI Labs' LOMAC, development of highly integrated file system and device extensibility services to support security features, network stack hardening, kernel security model extensibility allowing tightly integrated mandatory access control, and application security work. Several of these components are based on or contribute to work performed as part of the TrustedBSD Project, a project which seeks to introduce trusted operating system functionality into the FreeBSD operating system. The Composable High Assurance Trusted Systems (CHATS) program at DARPA will focus on the development of the tools and technology that enable the core systems and network services to protect themselves from the introduction and execution of malicious code and other attack techniques and methods. These tools and technologies aim to provide the high assurance trusted operating systems the security services needed to achieve comprehensive secure highly distributed mission critical information systems for the DoD. This program seeks to enhance the existing approach to development and acquisition of high assurance trusted operating systems technology by advancing the security functionality, security services, and the state of assurance in current open-source operating systems and developing a long-term architectural framework for future trusted operating systems. For more information on NAI Labs, please see: http://www.nailabs.com/ For more information on the CBOSS initiative, please see: http://opensource.nailabs.com/news/20010709-cboss.html http://opensource.nailabs.com/initiatives/cboss/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 9:17:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B4F437B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:17:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Bsdguru@aol.com) Received: from Bsdguru@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id n.65.16e64a93 (4241) for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:17:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Bsdguru@aol.com Message-ID: <65.16e64a93.287b3303@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:17:07 EDT Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral To: hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In a message dated 07/08/2001 9:11:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, billf@mu.org writes: > On Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 12:29:03PM -0400, Bsdguru@aol.com wrote: > > > > Luckily, with this post to the mailing list you can join the ranks of > doing > > > nothing positive for the project. Congrats! > > > > > I seriously doubt if I am the only one who is beyond disappointed in BSDI' > s > > "contribution" to FreeBSD. > > I actually made detailed replies to each of your points individually but > trashed them when I realized they could all be simplified into one: > > You are a troll and a cluebie. > > Having said that, post-WC BSDi funded and supported more things then you > obviously are aware of. You may want to do a little more research until > you accuse them of being anything but positive for the project. For every > point you just accused them of being absent and non-beneficial I can name > multiple major contributions they funded, supported with people, or flat > out donated. > Is name-calling on the list allowed now? Very classy. From the archives I see that you make quite a habit of it. You must be quite an important fellow (or do you have pictures of jordan with barnyard animals?). And obviously not very good at making valid arguments if you have to resort to such. Congrats on snipping out my comments, which you continue to fail to absorb. My point was that they got no RESULTS. Just as they spent millions advertising their OS, their dollars didnt translate into results because they are clueless marketeers. "Funding" is nice, but noone call look at the "BSDI era" and say "Gee, they really made an impact". All I said is that I wasnt surprised. Its their history. FreeBSD has never been further behind linux in the public relations mix, and the gap is widening, even though its a better product. Clearly this is a sore spot for you and you are incapable of being objective, so I'll just leave it at that. B To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 9:50:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 943E637B406; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:50:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.244.104.114.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.244.104.114]) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15073; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B49E0FB.FA88D7A3@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 09:51:07 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Ted Mittelstaedt , Eric Wayte , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > Yes, all of the above are bad, and they're a sign of an even worse > problem. FreeBSD has done well for the past 8 years due in large part > because it an energetic and persuasive "product manager" in the person > of Jordan K. Hubbard pushing, cajoling, and badgering the CD-ROM > product through the arduous steps of production. Those who think > this process happens on auto-pilot are deluded; it has to be baby- > stepped through every time. The main issues are the distribution files that are not standardized, not memorialized in the makefiles, the binary only files which belong to Walnut Creek and can't really be distributed by others, and the holes in the build process (particularly, the 34 or so ports necessary for the Docs build, the package file assembly, and the X11 distribution that's built out and installed in its own weird-ass format, instead of as a package). I believe that the packages are still built-out by Satoshi, not Jordan. The docs ports are problematic: recently, with the ftp.freebsd.org fiasco, it was not possible to build a full release, unless you happened to know that there was exactly one non-deleting mirror where you could get the required files (in England). It also pointed out the flaws in the single point of failure model. > Specifically, we need a Product Manager who can shepherd > FreeBSD through the release process, and coordinate with > CD-ROM distributor(s) who are interested in producing and > selling CDs, DVDs, etc of the "official" FreeBSD distribution. Actually, No. What needs to happen is that the tools needed to do the build need to be collected with the rest of the sources, so that the system is fully self hosted. It would also be nice if someone wanted to commit those patches I made to sysinstall and the /usr/src/release Makefile to permit building CDROMs with other-than-GENERIC kernels to actually work. PAO and others agreed that they were desirable. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 10:10: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED6D637B405; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:10:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.244.104.114.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.244.104.114]) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07937; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:10:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B49E58D.5EDDDA2A@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:10:37 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nik Clayton Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Ted Mittelstaedt , Eric Wayte , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> <20010706092541.C23117@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nik Clayton wrote: > The thorny question of "What do they have to include and still call it > FreeBSD?" is resolved by saying that any FreeBSD distribution must > include, as a minimum, the contents of the "mini" ISO (including > sysinstall). Anyone that wants to include an alternative installation > routine (open or closed source) can do, as long as sysinstall is still > there. Then the FreeBSD docs can continue to refer to sysinstall, and > the project doesn't get flack if someone puts together a distribution > with a crap installer, because sysinstall will always be there as a > fallback. First: sysinstall must die: this is non-negotiable. Second: it is an albatross, and forcing people to include it is obnoxious, and definitely not in the long term best interests of the project. Third: tying the hands of distributors with regard to what they "must" distribute is stupid: you might as well GPL the damn thing, and call it a day, if you want that level of editorial control over third party distributors content. Personally, I'd be perfectly happy to trust people to do right by the project; I'd be happy with an X server that configured itself in software, and with a default boot-to-X and that Java version of the InstallShield product. I'd also like to see someone produce a handicap accessible version of FreeBSD: e.g. there would be no sysinstall. I'd like to see a distribution that Installed multiple roots, and supported fail-over booting like nextboot used to. And I want to see a distribution where / is mounted read-only, with only the necessary parts being mounted writeable at all. Making people keep sysinstall precludes innovations which make FreeBSD more accessible to more people, and broaden the user base. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 10:25:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E02D737B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:25:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from culverk@wam.umd.edu) Received: from rac1.wam.umd.edu (IDENT:root@rac1.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.141]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17709 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:25:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac1.wam.umd.edu (IDENT:sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac1.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA12470 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (culverk@localhost) by rac1.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12466 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:25:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac1.wam.umd.edu: culverk owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:25:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Wayne Culver To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: more on latency Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think I found the reason that my FreeBSD box is performing so poorly as a NATing router. When I do an ipnat -l to see what "active connections" are there on the router, a list about 3 pages long (using ipnat -l | more) appears. I think maybe it's having trouble because for every packet coming in and out of the router, it's got to look at that list of active connections for the right one to send to and from. Is there any way to make connections that aren't being used go away from the NAT faster? Thanks a lot. Kenneth Culver To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 10:30:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADDA237B403 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:30:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (InterJet.elischer.org [192.168.1.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA48845; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:18:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:18:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Kenneth Wayne Culver Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: more on latency In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG that shouldn't take TOO long.. It's possible however that it takes a while to be scheduled. you might try puting natd in the real-time scheduling queue. On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Kenneth Wayne Culver wrote: > I think I found the reason that my FreeBSD box is performing so poorly as > a NATing router. When I do an ipnat -l to see what "active > connections" are there on the router, a list about 3 pages long (using > ipnat -l | more) appears. I think maybe it's having trouble because for > every packet coming in and out of the router, it's got to look at that > list of active connections for the right one to send to and from. Is there > any way to make connections that aren't being used go away from the NAT > faster? Thanks a lot. > > Kenneth Culver > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 10:57:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AA0737B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:57:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.244.104.114.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.244.104.114]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13531; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:57:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B49F0A4.8CB32FD7@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:57:56 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Toon Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Installworld failure! References: <01070618590800.00255@Dionysus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Toon wrote: > > Hi, > > Ack, make installworld failed! The Makefile seems broken: > > Dionysus# make installworld > mkdir -p /tmp/install.281 > for prog in [ awk cat chflags chmod chown date echo egrep find grep > install ln make makewhatis mtree mv perl rm sed sh sysctl test true > uname wc zic; do cp `which $prog` /tmp/install.281; done > usage: cp [-R [-H | -L | -P]] [-f | -i] [-pv] src target > cp [-R [-H | -L | -P]] [-f | -i] [-pv] src1 ... srcN directory > *** Error code 64 > > Stop in /usr/src. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/src. > > The cp command is being called incorrectly... > > Anyone got any suggestions? The `which $prog` is failing for one of your targets, and as a result, the 'cp' ends up with only one argument. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 11: 1:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.pdx.polyserve.com (dsl-209-162-208-226.easystreet.com [209.162.208.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C2B937B405 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:01:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jpl@polyserve.com) Received: from backman.pdx.polyserve.com (IDENT:root@backman.pdx.polyserve.com [10.1.0.5]) by mail.pdx.polyserve.com (8.11.2/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f69I1TK10546 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:01:29 -0700 Received: from jlabarbera (dhcp222.brk.polyserve.com [10.2.0.222] (may be forged)) by backman.pdx.polyserve.com (8.11.2/8.11.0) with SMTP id f69I1TW06801 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:01:29 -0700 From: "Jason LaBarbera" To: Subject: Aaron Smith? Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:57:45 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does anyone know where Aaron Smith has landed? Thanks, Jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 11:25:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84D8C37B405; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:25:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.244.104.114.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.244.104.114]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13145; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:24:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B49F6FA.883BBCD5@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 11:24:58 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Sergey Babkin , Kris Kennaway , "Louis A. Mamakos" , Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <32135.994489881@critter> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > In message <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net>, Sergey Babkin writes: > > >If the FreeBSD Foundation is an existing entity now, maybe we > >can just change the license for the CD images to "not for resale" > >unless the distributor signs an agreement with the Foundation ? > > Why on _earth_ would we make it so hard for people to get hold > of a media copy of FreeBSD, when absolutely nothing prevents > me or anybody else from rolling a net distribution ? You read my mind. I'd be happy to roll a distribution, should someone do that to the images, just to get out from under it. It's not rocket science. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 11:32:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F58937B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:32:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.244.104.114.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.244.104.114]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08318; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 11:32:53 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: shannon@widomaker.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan Hubbard wrote: > Erm, I really think that some folks are missing the point with all > this. It's not up to the foundation to determine how the release bits > are distributed nor has it ever been, just as it's not up to the > release engineer or the FreeBSD core team to determine how the > foundation spends any money it collects. Each is a completely > separate entities with its own methods of picking "officers" and > making decisions. They should all certainly be on friendly terms as > they're all in the same "FreeBSD boat", but people really need to be > careful about making assumptions about what the Foundation does or, > for that matter, the core team does. If you haven't heard something > explicitly stated as a part of some group's public mandate, please > don't assume that it's the case. :( Except that he who controls the trademark is he who gets to bless the distributions with its use -- or to deny its use. > I think Nik already did a good job of covering this. If you > distribute, at a minimum, the "base bits" that will come on the > mini-ISO image and make it clear that the standard installation tools > are present and should be used for any "stock" FreeBSD installation > experience, you're in the clear. Historically, you've always held that the CDROM must boot to sysinstall. As the software's daddy, I can see why you'd want that; but your baby is ugly. I don't see anyone stepping up to replace it any time soon, so long as you insist that they not be able to make money from it, and they can't use the trademark if the don't include that blecherous software as the default thing to which CDROMs boot. Yetch. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 12: 9: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0AE937B401; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:08:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.244.104.114.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.244.104.114]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15000; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:08:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4A0154.702EDA6@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 12:09:08 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sergey Babkin Cc: Peter Wemm , Poul-Henning Kamp , Kris Kennaway , "Louis A. Mamakos" , Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010707081731.952F7380F@overcee.netplex.com.au> <3B47E06D.32067E46@bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sergey Babkin wrote: > It's not about protecting. It's about financiallly stimulating more > organizations to fund developers to work on FreeBSD. The ISO image > distribution rights don't have to be exchanged for money, they > may just as well (and better) be exchanged for such support. The most obvious way to do this, IMO, is to make FreeBSD more accessiblle for use in commercial ventures, be it embedded systems or as a backdrop for commercial software using it as a platform on which some company puts their own face forward. This means making it substantially easier to do things like building distributions with custom kernels, greatly simplified "default installation" type things, etc.. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 12:12: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.the-i-pa.com (mail.the-i-pa.com [151.201.71.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CD7DB37B413 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:11:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@iowna.com) Received: (qmail 15285 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 19:21:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO iowna.com) (151.201.71.193) by mail.the-i-pa.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 19:21:08 -0000 Message-ID: <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 15:08:20 -0400 From: Bill Moran X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > Historically, you've always held that the CDROM must boot > to sysinstall. As the software's daddy, I can see why > you'd want that; but your baby is ugly. > > I don't see anyone stepping up to replace it any time > soon, so long as you insist that they not be able to > make money from it, and they can't use the trademark > if the don't include that blecherous software as the > default thing to which CDROMs boot. Yetch. 2 practical questions: What *exactly* do you see wrong with sysinstall and what *exactly* would you do to improve it. I've been looking for various projects to work on, but sysinstall has never looked (to me) like it needed any serious work. Perhaps I'm looking at it wrong. -Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 12:26:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from virtual-voodoo.com (virtual-voodoo.com [204.120.165.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6866A37B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:26:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@virtual-voodoo.com) Received: from inlafrec (80.winstar.net [63.140.3.80] (may be forged)) (authenticated) by virtual-voodoo.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f69JQYl09709; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:26:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from steve@virtual-voodoo.com) Message-ID: <014f01c108ac$cc2e7b80$50038c3f@eservoffice.com> From: "Steven Ames" To: "Ronald G Minnich" , Cc: References: Subject: Re: best way to migrate to a new disk Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:24:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Don't use tar. It loses devices, can't handle holey files well and a > > number of other minor clitches. Use dump instead. Hrm... what about 'rsync'? Does it suffer from the same problems as 'tar'? I use rsync a lot because its incremental. This is off topic from migrating to a new disk, but I am curious... -Steve > yes, tar is a horrible way to do this. > > newfs /dev/whatever > mount /dev/whatever /new > cd /new > dump 0f - /dev/your-root-device | restore rf - > > At least that's how I do it ... > > ron > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 12:32: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF69137B409 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:32:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.244.104.114.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.244.104.114]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22547; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:31:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4A06BF.3F07B116@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 12:32:15 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chojin Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Create a FreeBSD bootable CD References: <10f.234f1eb.2879e474@aol.com> <000d01c107d0$9555ba60$0245a8c0@chojin> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chojin wrote: > > Hello, > > Someone could tell me how create a bootable FreeBSD CD ? > I cannot use a floppy image because it is too small to put > my kernel (1.5 Mo), and I cant create a 2.88 Mb floppy > image (as I don't have the drive). Then how create a > freebsd boot image which use the real CD space to put all > files I want ? > > If you have any script too, it would be cool :-) cd /usr/src make buildworld cd release make [bunch of environment vars -- see handbook] release Then you need to use mkisofs to turn the release images into ISOs, and then burncd to put the images onto the coasters. You will end up with a 2.88M floppy image. The way that CDROMs boot is their BIOS loads the floppy image into RAM with a RAM disk, and then boots it as if it were booting a floppy. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 12:33: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ndcorp.com (mail.ndchealth.com [206.227.248.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45A0237B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:32:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremy.lakey@ndchealth.com) Received: from claven.cistech.com (claven.cistech.com [198.200.166.25]) by mail.ndcorp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30548 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:28:14 -0400 Received: by claven.cistech.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <3C4CYG7T>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:27:35 -0500 Message-ID: <4242F92CA015D5119B96006008340142012554FC@claven.cistech.com> From: "Lakey, Jeremy # IHTUL" To: "'freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: (a bit offtopic) KDE2.1.1 install Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:27:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C108AD.34DA7120" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C108AD.34DA7120 Content-Type: text/plain I'm running a p233 with 128mgs of ram, and KDE 2.1.1 install has been compiling ALL MORNING! Is this unusual? ------_=_NextPart_001_01C108AD.34DA7120 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm running a p233 with 128mgs of ram, and KDE 2.1.1 install has been compiling ALL MORNING!

 

Is this unusual?

 

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C108AD.34DA7120-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 12:39:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from a.mx.everquick.net (a.mx.everquick.net [216.89.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E579F37B401; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:39:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eddy+public+spam@noc.everquick.net) Received: from localhost (eddy@localhost) by a.mx.everquick.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f69JcP618610; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:38:25 GMT X-EverQuick-No-Abuse: Report any e-mail abuse to Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:38:24 +0000 (GMT) From: "E.B. Dreger" To: Terry Lambert Cc: Sergey Babkin , Peter Wemm , Poul-Henning Kamp , Kris Kennaway , "Louis A. Mamakos" , Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <3B4A0154.702EDA6@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 12:09:08 -0700 > From: Terry Lambert > The most obvious way to do this, IMO, is to make FreeBSD > more accessiblle for use in commercial ventures, be it > embedded systems or as a backdrop for commercial software > using it as a platform on which some company puts their > own face forward. To this end, I'd say: * More emphasis on Pico * Pick'n'choose which specifc files (not just sets) > This means making it substantially easier to do things > like building distributions with custom kernels, greatly > simplified "default installation" type things, etc.. I'm not opposed to a GUI-based easy install and config, so long as I don't have to use it or even have it on disk. I rather like sysinstall, and would _not_ want something GUI or anything like RH's installer or YaST. Eddy --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. - EverQuick Internet Division Phone: +1 (316) 794-8922 Wichita/(Inter)national Phone: +1 (785) 865-5885 Lawrence --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:23:58 +0000 (GMT) From: A Trap To: blacklist@brics.com Subject: Please ignore this portion of my mail signature. These last few lines are a trap for address-harvesting spambots. Do NOT send mail to , or you are likely to be blocked. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 12:46:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.urx.com (mail.urx.com [63.170.19.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51C7137B403 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:46:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kstewart@urx.com) Received: from urx.com [206.159.132.160] by mail.urx.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id AA297D03B2; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 12:46:49 -0700 Message-ID: <3B4A0A29.445425C2@urx.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 12:46:49 -0700 From: Kent Stewart X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Lakey, Jeremy # IHTUL" Cc: "'freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: Re: (a bit offtopic) KDE2.1.1 install References: <4242F92CA015D5119B96006008340142012554FC@claven.cistech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm running a p233 with 128mgs of ram, and KDE 2.1.1 install has been > compiling ALL MORNING > > Is this unusual? First, this is a question for -questions. You shouldn't send HTML. No, it could take 12 hours or more on the p233. Kent -- Kent Stewart Richland, WA Cool site http://www.bmwfilms.com mailto:kbstew99@hotmail.com http://kstewart.urx.com/kstewart/index.html http://daily.daemonnews.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 12:52: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA06D37B403 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:52:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.244.104.114.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.244.104.114]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19840; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4A0B6D.65F5CB2B@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 12:52:13 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Mustafa N. Deeb" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: deny this References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Mustafa N. Deeb" wrote: > > hi all,, > > how can I tell sendmail to deny this > > >>> MAIL From:<> SIZE=1926 > 250 <>... Sender ok You can do it by flagrantly violating RFC 821, since you are required by RFC 821 to permit that as a sender, since that's how mail servers send error messages to other mail servers, for which they can not handle a response. In other words: don't do that. I think you are probably trying to solve a different problem than you think that would resolve. In particular you probably don't want to permit delivery to addresses for which you are not the primary MX, if the source address is <>; I suspect you are running an open relay, and want to stop SPAM. If so, rejecting <> will only make them change the source address to something else. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 13: 8:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC93237B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:08:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.244.104.114.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.244.104.114]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05531; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:08:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4A0F74.672D7B27@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 13:09:24 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kenneth Wayne Culver Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more on latency References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kenneth Wayne Culver wrote: > > I think I found the reason that my FreeBSD box is performing > so poorly as a NATing router. When I do an ipnat -l to see > what "active connections" are there on the router, a list > about 3 pages long (using ipnat -l | more) appears. I think > maybe it's having trouble because for every packet coming in > and out of the router, it's got to look at that list of > active connections for the right one to send to and from. Is > there any way to make connections that aren't being used go > away from the NAT faster? Thanks a lot. Don't run unnecessary daemons. The pcb lookups are a linear traversal, as well, and for a large number of connections, the calllout wheel for timers sucks. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 13:10:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ndcorp.com (mail.ndchealth.com [206.227.248.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ACDE37B405 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:10:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremy.lakey@ndchealth.com) Received: from claven.cistech.com (claven.cistech.com [198.200.166.25]) by mail.ndcorp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00939 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:06:01 -0400 Received: by claven.cistech.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <3C4CYHG3>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:05:21 -0500 Message-ID: <4242F92CA015D5119B96006008340142012554FF@claven.cistech.com> From: "Lakey, Jeremy # IHTUL" To: "'freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: (a bit offtopic) KDE2.1.1 install Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:05:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My apologies on the HTML, turned that off (fresh install of XP, you used to have to turn in ON) Thanks for the answer.. Question tho, is this a just a designated flame board? I subscribed hoping to find like-minded hackers as I started on my i810E open-gl enabled driver, but this list seems to have degenerated into a flamewar about copyrighted coasters. -----Original Message----- From: Kent Stewart [mailto:kstewart@urx.com] Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 2:47 PM To: Lakey, Jeremy # IHTUL Cc: 'freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG' Subject: Re: (a bit offtopic) KDE2.1.1 install > I'm running a p233 with 128mgs of ram, and KDE 2.1.1 install has been > compiling ALL MORNING > > Is this unusual? First, this is a question for -questions. You shouldn't send HTML. No, it could take 12 hours or more on the p233. Kent -- Kent Stewart Richland, WA Cool site http://www.bmwfilms.com mailto:kbstew99@hotmail.com http://kstewart.urx.com/kstewart/index.html http://daily.daemonnews.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 13:28:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B2C037B405 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:28:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.244.104.114.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.244.104.114]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02126; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 13:29:23 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Moran Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Moran wrote: > Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Historically, you've always held that the CDROM must boot > > to sysinstall. As the software's daddy, I can see why > > you'd want that; but your baby is ugly. > > > > I don't see anyone stepping up to replace it any time > > soon, so long as you insist that they not be able to > > make money from it, and they can't use the trademark > > if the don't include that blecherous software as the > > default thing to which CDROMs boot. Yetch. > > 2 practical questions: > What *exactly* do you see wrong with sysinstall and what > *exactly* would you do to improve it. > > I've been looking for various projects to work on, but > sysinstall has never looked (to me) like it needed any > serious work. Perhaps I'm looking at it wrong. The base system is not registered into the packages system, because of sysinstall. There are a lot of navigational problems with the code; Eric Melville is addressing some of them. The disk partitioning sucks. The upgrade process should automatically discover the FS mount points. Backing up the configuration before attempting to merge is inadequate; it also takes a long time. Most of the work should be done using async mounts, or at least soft updates. With write caching AND SU off by default, the 4.3 distribution takes forever to do its thing. There are a number of bugs; for example, if you go into the packages, it's actually off-by-one on the description line (i.e. the wrong field is displayed as the long description). It's too "chatty". It wants hand-holding at the end, instead of just doing the right thing. The network setup should attempt to obtain a DHCP lease, without having to be told to do it, at least for initial install. There's no "sysinstall" broken out on the disk by itself, which means that I have to install it somewhere so that I can copy it so that I can install it over an NFS mount on systems without CDROMs. Doing an NFS based install, without booting from the CD itself results in /dev/MAKEDEV and /dev/MAKEDEV.local not being correctly updated. Without the new /dev/random, you end up not having a working ssh. Similar problem, but /etc/pam.conf isn't updated to add the new sshd lines; this is a nasty surprise, particularly if you are SSH'ed in to do the update. Without the patches I posted, you can't build from a custom kernel configuration, since sysinstall fails to copy the "/kernel.MYCONF" to "/kernel", leaving you without a "/kernel". This is particularly nasty, if all you have is a serial console, and don't output the boot messages or prompt via "/boot.config" (embedded systems land), since you've just turned your machine into a doorstop, and must disassemble it to get the disk into somewhere you can mount it and copy the file manually. There are too many steps. X11 is a distribution set, instead of a package. Etc. (I could go on forever). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 13:49:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4356D37B403 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:49:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 4F0E46ACC1; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 06:19:19 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 06:19:19 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: "Julian Stacey Jhs@jhs.muc.de" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, bod@FreeBSDFoundation.org Subject: Re: Re. The Foundation [was Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral] Message-ID: <20010710061919.V80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <200107081353.f68Drec45358@jhs.muc.de> <200107082147.f68LlIU93022@aslan.scsiguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200107082147.f68LlIU93022@aslan.scsiguy.com>; from gibbs@scsiguy.com on Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 03:47:18PM -0600 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sunday, 8 July 2001 at 15:47:18 -0600, Justin T. Gibbs wrote: > Julian Stacey wrote: >> The sooner BOD appoint a handfull of non-execs, some nominated by core, >> the sooner it'll be easy to encourage Wind River to donate the trademark, >> before who knows what might happen at, to, or within Wind River ? > > The Foundation has yet to approach Wind River about the Trademark, > so I cannot speculate on their disposition. What are your plans to change this situation? Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 13:58:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from aslan.scsiguy.com (aslan.scsiguy.com [63.229.232.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94D4737B403; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:58:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gibbs@scsiguy.com) Received: from scsiguy.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.scsiguy.com (8.11.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f69KwgU09270; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:58:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gibbs@scsiguy.com) Message-Id: <200107092058.f69KwgU09270@aslan.scsiguy.com> To: Greg Lehey Cc: "Julian Stacey Jhs@jhs.muc.de" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, bod@FreeBSDFoundation.org Subject: Re: Re. The Foundation [was Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral] In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 10 Jul 2001 06:19:19 +0930." <20010710061919.V80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 14:58:42 -0600 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> The Foundation has yet to approach Wind River about the Trademark, >> so I cannot speculate on their disposition. > >What are your plans to change this situation? The Foundation isn't planning to do anything about the trademark or in regards to any of its other proposed activities until sufficient donations have arrived. I believe that the financial statement released with our announcement makes it clear why this must be the case. -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 13:59:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ipsnetwork.net (mail.ipsnetwork.net [209.202.83.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E89537B403; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:59:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nvidican@ipsnetwork.net) Received: (from apache@localhost) by mail.ipsnetwork.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f69L87E98563; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:08:07 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from nvidican@ipsnetwork.net) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:08:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200107092108.f69L87E98563@mail.ipsnetwork.net> From: "Nathan Vidican" To: questions@freebsd.org Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: nathan@vidican.com Subject: Athlon MP / AMD 760MP Chipset (Athlon SMP question) X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.24 X-IPAddress: 216.94.6.27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I seem to recall a few discussions about the Dual Athlon buzz some while back which had stated that the Athlon would essentially require a completely different SMP spec than that currently utilized by the Intel procesors. Assuming that this was true, one would assume that the O/S too would require a different kind of SMP support in order to function with these CPUs. Unfortuneately, a recent thread has me at a bit of a loss here; in that people seem to be speaking about the processor/smp chipset as though they function just like Intel's do. Assuming that this conflicting information is indeed correct, then would it not be feasible to assume that the code currently implemented for using SMP implementations under FreeBSD would be portable to the new Athlon MP processor line? The threads I'm speaking of, were to freebsd-questions most recently wherein someone had been asking if the new Tyan ThunderK7 motherboard would work with FreeBSD. The general concencus was 'why not', from the responses I had read... but no one who answered really seemed to know for sure. Just for the record, is it or is it not possible to run SMP with the new Athlon MP Processors; or has no-one even tried yet? Currently the only O/S I know of which is promoting the usage of such systems is Novell Netware, and I am just curious if FreeBSD will (if it is not currently) be capable of running on such a system? -- Nathan Vidican Nathan@Vidican.com http://Nathan.Vidican.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 14:14: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC72637B407; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:13:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lplist@closedsrc.org) Received: by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1003) id 14D3355407; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 053A551610; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:58:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Linh Pham To: Cc: , Subject: Re: Athlon MP / AMD 760MP Chipset (Athlon SMP question) In-Reply-To: <200107092108.f69L87E98563@mail.ipsnetwork.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2001-07-09, Nathan Vidican scribbled: # Just for the record, is it or is it not possible to run SMP with # the new Athlon MP Processors; or has no-one even tried yet? Currently # the only O/S I know of which is promoting the usage of such systems is # Novell Netware, and I am just curious if FreeBSD will (if it is not # currently) be capable of running on such a system? John Baldwin sendout a message to freebsd-smp with the dmesg and mptable dump from the dual-Athlon reference board (called Guiness... which coincidentally is the same board as the Tyan 760MP motherboard, since Tyan made the ref board). I could well be the final production board that one can get now for 500+ US dollars. You can find the message here (the URL is kinda long): http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=651522+663926+/usr/local/www/db/text/2001/freebsd-hackers/20010422.freebsd-hackers+raw It seems to show that the person was able to get 2 AMD Athlon 1.2Ghz processors (dunno if they are the Thunderbird or the Palimino, aka Athlon MP, revision of the Athlon) running. Outside of FreeBSD compatibility, the motherboard does require a proprietary power connector and a power supply rated at or over 460W. The motherboard itself is an extended ATX motherboard... meaning that it may not fit in every case (although it will fit into a WTX case... just it can't use a WTX power supply). It also requires quite a bit of cooling since two 1.2Ghz Athlons (even Paliminos) require a lot of power and produce a heck of a lot of heat! The motherboard also requires Registered (ECC) DDR SDRAM... for those who want 3+ GB of RAM, one manufacturer got the thumbs up on getting a 1GB Registered DDR SDRAM module approved for use with the motherboard (don't know if it will fit into a 1U rackmount case or not). -- Linh Pham [lplist@closedsrc.org] // 404b - Brain not found To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 14:17: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.the-i-pa.com (mail.the-i-pa.com [151.201.71.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1796C37B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:16:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@iowna.com) Received: (qmail 15994 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 21:26:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO iowna.com) (151.201.71.193) by mail.the-i-pa.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 21:26:07 -0000 Message-ID: <3B4A1E70.18A550B7@iowna.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 17:13:20 -0400 From: Bill Moran X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > 2 practical questions: > > What *exactly* do you see wrong with sysinstall and what > > *exactly* would you do to improve it. > > > > I've been looking for various projects to work on, but > > sysinstall has never looked (to me) like it needed any > > serious work. Perhaps I'm looking at it wrong. > While "going on forever" would actually be required in order to fix things, I'm more interested in why you think that sysintall needs "to go" - or did I misunderstand your previous post? Do you think that there are simply so many problems with sysinstall that it's not worth fixing? I guess I was looking at the basic menu-driven layout and wondering what you saw wrong with that. -Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 14:27:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp014.mail.yahoo.com (smtp014.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5102E37B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:27:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kc5vdj@yahoo.com) Received: from mkc-65-28-47-209.kc.rr.com (HELO yahoo.com) (65.28.47.209) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 21:27:36 -0000 X-Apparently-From: Message-ID: <3B4A21C7.B9B63FE4@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 16:27:35 -0500 From: Jim Bryant Reply-To: kc5vdj@yahoo.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: Kenneth Wayne Culver , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more on latency References: <3B4A0F74.672D7B27@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > Kenneth Wayne Culver wrote: > > > > I think I found the reason that my FreeBSD box is performing > > so poorly as a NATing router. When I do an ipnat -l to see > > what "active connections" are there on the router, a list > > about 3 pages long (using ipnat -l | more) appears. I think > > maybe it's having trouble because for every packet coming in > > and out of the router, it's got to look at that list of > > active connections for the right one to send to and from. Is > > there any way to make connections that aren't being used go > > away from the NAT faster? Thanks a lot. > > Don't run unnecessary daemons. > > The pcb lookups are a linear traversal, as well, and for > a large number of connections, the calllout wheel for > timers sucks. > > -- Terry Is there a way to get similar stats from natd? jim -- ET has one helluva sense of humor! He's always anal-probing right-wing schizos! _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 14:48: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0318D37B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:48:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@nuxi.ucdavis.edu) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (root@trang.nuxi.com [206.40.252.115]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f69Lm2R30485; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:48:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f69Lm2o38744; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:48:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:48:01 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Terry Lambert Cc: Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010709144801.A38630@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 01:29:23PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 01:29:23PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > Most of the work should be done using async mounts, or IT DOES. Terry please read the code... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 14:58:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from netbank.com.br (garrincha.netbank.com.br [200.203.199.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF2F137B403 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:58:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from riel@conectiva.com.br) Received: from surriel.ddts.net (1-192.cwb-adsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [200.193.160.192]) by netbank.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FE1446807; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 18:57:44 -0300 (BRST) Received: from localhost (btkwoq@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by surriel.ddts.net (8.11.4/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f69LvvF12737; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 18:57:57 -0300 Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 18:57:57 -0300 (BRST) From: Rik van Riel X-X-Sender: To: "Mustafa N. Deeb" Cc: Subject: Re: deny this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-spambait: aardvark@kernelnewbies.org X-spammeplease: aardvark@nl.linux.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Mustafa N. Deeb wrote: > how can I tell sendmail to deny this > > >>> MAIL From:<> SIZE=1926 > 250 <>... Sender ok Please see http://www.rfc-ignorant.org/ Denying these headers will get you blacklisted. Rik -- Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ Send all your spam to aardvark@nl.linux.org (spam digging piggy) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 15:17:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (pc-62-31-42-140-hy.blueyonder.co.uk [62.31.42.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D818B37B401; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:17:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f69MGQM95070; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:16:26 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:16:26 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Terry Lambert Cc: Nik Clayton , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Ted Mittelstaedt , Eric Wayte , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010709231626.B16152@clan.nothing-going-on.org> References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> <20010706092541.C23117@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> <3B49E58D.5EDDDA2A@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="BwCQnh7xodEAoBMC" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B49E58D.5EDDDA2A@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 10:10:37AM -0700 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --BwCQnh7xodEAoBMC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 10:10:37AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > Nik Clayton wrote: > > The thorny question of "What do they have to include and still call it > > FreeBSD?" is resolved by saying that any FreeBSD distribution must > > include, as a minimum, the contents of the "mini" ISO (including > > sysinstall). Anyone that wants to include an alternative installation > > routine (open or closed source) can do, as long as sysinstall is still > > there. Then the FreeBSD docs can continue to refer to sysinstall, and > > the project doesn't get flack if someone puts together a distribution > > with a crap installer, because sysinstall will always be there as a > > fallback. >=20 > First: sysinstall must die: this is non-negotiable. >=20 > Second: it is an albatross, and forcing people to > include it is obnoxious, and definitely not in the > long term best interests of the project. >=20 > Third: tying the hands of distributors with regard > to what they "must" distribute is stupid: you might > as well GPL the damn thing, and call it a day, if > you want that level of editorial control over third > party distributors content. It's reasonable to want to control what get's called FreeBSD. The intent here is not to prevent third party installers -- they can be open source, closed source, or whatever mix you want. If you want to produce a commercial distribution of FreeBSD that does not use sysinstall as the default installation mechanism then go right ahead, make it the default, have it come up automatically when your customers=20 boot from CD, and so on. However, if you want to call it FreeBSD, then, somewhere, sysinstall (and whatever replaces it) must be available. Put it on "boot-legacy.flp"= =20 if you want, and strongly urge your customers not to use it. But make it available to those that want it. Then I can make sure that the Handbook chapter on installation says, right at the beginning: This chapter describes how to install FreeBSD using the installation software provided by the project. Third party vendors are completely free to provide their own installation routine, document it, and support it. However, they must also provide and document a mechanism for you to=20 use sysinstall. This is the only installer we document here, and it's very likely that the members of -questions mailing list will only be able to answer installation related questions if you're using sysinstall. If, at some point, you (or whatever third party develops a better installation system) donates it back to the project then it becomes the sysinstall replacement we've all yearned for, and the documentation can be updated accordingly. > Personally, I'd be perfectly happy to trust people > to do right by the project; I'd be happy with an X > server that configured itself in software, and with > a default boot-to-X and that Java version of the > InstallShield product. I'd also like to see someone > produce a handicap accessible version of FreeBSD: > e.g. there would be no sysinstall. I'd like to see > a distribution that Installed multiple roots, and > supported fail-over booting like nextboot used to. > And I want to see a distribution where / is mounted > read-only, with only the necessary parts being mounted > writeable at all. All of that is fine. Indeed, I'd like to see them happen as well. > Making people keep sysinstall precludes innovations > which make FreeBSD more accessible to more people, > and broaden the user base. Just to make sure we're not talking at cross purposes -- all I'm saying is that sysinstall must be available somewhere on the installation media that you provide, and that instructions on how to boot from it as an alternative to whatever installation mechanism you provide must also be available. I am *not* saying that sysinstall *must* be used, just that it *must* be available for use. N --=20 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- --BwCQnh7xodEAoBMC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtKLTkACgkQk6gHZCw343Wu2wCeMXLKY6bDEy1CZYchCrzs6Vs0 1AgAnAwwrDdh6rwbGrJJq92ZlBdSg6Bq =a/JY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BwCQnh7xodEAoBMC-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 15:51: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (pc-62-31-42-140-hy.blueyonder.co.uk [62.31.42.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 521D937B403 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:50:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f69MTNQ95160; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:29:23 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:29:23 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Terry Lambert Cc: Jordan Hubbard , shannon@widomaker.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010709232923.C16152@clan.nothing-going-on.org> References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZwgA9U+XZDXt4+m+" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 11:32:53AM -0700 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --ZwgA9U+XZDXt4+m+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 11:32:53AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > Historically, you've always held that the CDROM must boot > to sysinstall. As the software's daddy, I can see why > you'd want that; but your baby is ugly. That's changed -- it's certainly what I was discussing with Jordan. You just have to make a bootable image with sysinstall available on the media;= =20 it does not need to be the default installer. N --=20 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- --ZwgA9U+XZDXt4+m+ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtKMEMACgkQk6gHZCw343WMIwCZAc7PMY33I6JCmqiSklEYVkW+ swEAn2QMuMyhi8ZZxwjXgxguQCjenCog =Ijl1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZwgA9U+XZDXt4+m+-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 16:27:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.freebsd.org (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A71DE37B40B for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:27:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.freebsd.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f69NQst08891; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:26:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: jkh@osd.bsdi.com, shannon@widomaker.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> References: <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010709162654L.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 16:26:54 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 48 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 11:32:53 -0700 > Except that he who controls the trademark is he who gets > to bless the distributions with its use -- or to deny its > use. Only if they chose to do so. I would like to think that the foundation is more enlightened than that, but you'll just have to trust them. > Historically, you've always held that the CDROM must boot > to sysinstall. As the software's daddy, I can see why > you'd want that; but your baby is ugly. I never said a "CDROM must boot to sysinstall" and I challenge you to find a quote to that effect. What both Nik and I said was that it must be an OPTION to do so, somehow, or you haven't provided a stock FreeBSD experience and people are potentially going to be confused as to what "FreeBSD" means. This holds especially true if you haven't provided source code to your wizzy installer and they have no way of figuring out how or why it's even misbehaving, which you can bet it will since nobody ever writes perfect software. I certainly don't see you answering questions on the freebsd-questions mailing list or you'd know that anything which creates confusion as to what a user is doing during the installation or general usage of FreeBSD only makes tech support that much more of a challenge. I'm not "defending sysinstall because it's my baby", I'm defending the right to have "FreeBSD" mean something as definitive as possible in the cradle-to-grave experience. If you want to write a much better installer and donate it so that we can make it the new default, so much the better and POLA will still be obeyed from a tech support perspective. And please, don't insult our intelligence by saying that tech support won't be an issue because you're going to putt a 1-800 number on your wizzy installer or something. People either won't call it or won't notice it, but they will go to www.freebsd.org and they'll eventually find their way onto IRC or the various mailing lists and ask why the pulsating red button never does the right thing when they push it. You, of course, will be nowhere to be found there and everyone else will be looking around and shaking their heads at this crazy person who's just wandered into the forum talking about a button that, from their perspective, doesn't exist. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 16:31:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.freebsd.org (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF69637B403; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:31:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.freebsd.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f69NFdt08838; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:15:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: nik@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <3B49E58D.5EDDDA2A@mindspring.com> References: <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> <20010706092541.C23117@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> <3B49E58D.5EDDDA2A@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010709161539I.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 16:15:39 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 70 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is all patently ridiculous, especially given that we know you have a previously declared bias in being able to sell some sort of installer for money and would clearly wish to kill any "competition" for it, no matter how benign it would be to otherwise include it as an option (which is all Nik was saying). Whether you personally find any merit in sysinstall or not, and I'm often among the first to point out its many shortcomings, trying to kill it off for business reasons is just as obnoxious and Microsoft-ish as trying to kill off, say, RAID support because you just so happen to have a proprietary RAID solution you'd prefer users to use instead. Yeesh! Talk about a complete and total failure to get what FreeBSD is all about! I really have to wonder why you continue to hover around the community like a horsefly, year after year, without contributing anything but complaints about how things should be remoulded in your own image... It's a crock, Terry, and it stinks like a porta-potty in Texas at high noon. - Jordan From: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:10:37 -0700 > Nik Clayton wrote: > > The thorny question of "What do they have to include and still call it > > FreeBSD?" is resolved by saying that any FreeBSD distribution must > > include, as a minimum, the contents of the "mini" ISO (including > > sysinstall). Anyone that wants to include an alternative installation > > routine (open or closed source) can do, as long as sysinstall is still > > there. Then the FreeBSD docs can continue to refer to sysinstall, and > > the project doesn't get flack if someone puts together a distribution > > with a crap installer, because sysinstall will always be there as a > > fallback. > > First: sysinstall must die: this is non-negotiable. > > Second: it is an albatross, and forcing people to > include it is obnoxious, and definitely not in the > long term best interests of the project. > > Third: tying the hands of distributors with regard > to what they "must" distribute is stupid: you might > as well GPL the damn thing, and call it a day, if > you want that level of editorial control over third > party distributors content. > > Personally, I'd be perfectly happy to trust people > to do right by the project; I'd be happy with an X > server that configured itself in software, and with > a default boot-to-X and that Java version of the > InstallShield product. I'd also like to see someone > produce a handicap accessible version of FreeBSD: > e.g. there would be no sysinstall. I'd like to see > a distribution that Installed multiple roots, and > supported fail-over booting like nextboot used to. > And I want to see a distribution where / is mounted > read-only, with only the necessary parts being mounted > writeable at all. > > > Making people keep sysinstall precludes innovations > which make FreeBSD more accessible to more people, > and broaden the user base. > > -- Terry > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 16:55:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.freebsd.org (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2779937B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:55:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.freebsd.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f69Nt8t09021; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:55:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: wmoran@iowna.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> References: <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010709165508S.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 16:55:08 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 26 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 13:29:23 -0700 > The base system is not registered into the packages > system, because of sysinstall. As usual, you have no idea what you're talking about. The base system isn't registered into the package system because the base system isn't PROVIDED as a package nor does it come with the right meta-information to enable anything, much less sysinstall, to easily fake things out. In other words, this isn't a sysinstall issue, it's a release building issue and you're free to change to the release building stuff to fix this if you like. I'm sure you'll also say that since your tiny patch to enable alternate kernels wasn't adopted then it clearly isn't worth your while to do any significant work, but that's just not how the equation works. Something substantial which truly lowers the pain threshold in dealing with FreeBSD actually stands a greater chance of making it in than a small fix which is useful only to you and a handful of PAO developers, so you're still encouraged to put your money where your mouth is and not simply bat this ball back with some excuse as to why it isn't feasible or attractive. Go on, it would be a welcome change of character! :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 17: 1:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [216.33.66.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAB1B37B403 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:01:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1098) id 96E9A81D05; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:01:19 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:01:19 -0500 From: Bill Fumerola To: Bsdguru@aol.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010709190119.A47870@elvis.mu.org> References: <65.16e64a93.287b3303@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <65.16e64a93.287b3303@aol.com>; from Bsdguru@aol.com on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 12:17:07PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.3-FEARSOME-20010617 i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 12:17:07PM -0400, Bsdguru@aol.com wrote: > Is name-calling on the list allowed now? Very classy. From the archives I see > that you make quite a habit of it. Perhaps you should contact those previously wronged by me and start a club: http://help.yahoo.com/help/clubs/cfound/cfound-09.html > You must be quite an important fellow (or > do you have pictures of jordan with barnyard animals?). Well, I actually DO have pictures of Jordan with barnyard animals. Baaaaaaa. > And obviously not > very good at making valid arguments if you have to resort to such. That must be it! Have you considered a career in psychology? > Congrats on snipping out my comments, which you continue to fail to absorb. > > My point was that they got no RESULTS. Just as they spent millions > advertising their OS, their dollars didnt translate into results because they > are clueless marketeers. "Funding" is nice, but noone call look at the "BSDI > era" and say "Gee, they really made an impact". All I said is that I wasnt > surprised. Its their history. FreeBSD has never been further behind linux in > the public relations mix, and the gap is widening, even though its a better > product. BSDi really did make an impact. Just because you fail to see one doesn't mean it didn't happen. You might want to read the cvs-all mailing list. If you'd like, I can supply you with some procmail filters that will put all of the commits of people who are/were supported by WC/BSDi/WRS into a folder called 'direct-positive-result-of-bsdi-funding'. I'm also unclear on how you have installed FreeBSD in the past few years, please clarify: [ ] purchased CD from BSDi [ ] downloaded from ftp.freebsd.org (which BSDi was paying for) [ ] downloaded from snapshot servers (partnership of USWest and WC/BSDi) [ ] downloaded from FTP mirror (who got their data from ftp.freebsd.org..) [ ] other (doesn't matter, the source that was used to generate the binaries was stored on WC/BSDi equipment) > Clearly this is a sore spot for you and you are incapable of being objective, > so I'll just leave it at that. blah blah blah. I read all your comments, I just knew how wrong they were. What you don't seem to realize is that BSDi did more then a retarded marketing campaign that failed miserably. I've expanded on what exactly they did in former replies to you, perhaps you might want to read them again. There are plenty of other BSD consipiracies with a lot less concrete evidence to prove them wrong, you may want to start trolling with those. done with this thread, -- Bill Fumerola / billf@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 19:13:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4402A37B403 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:13:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-b003.otenet.gr [195.167.121.131]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6A2DnC27157; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:13:49 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f6A2DjM40101; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:13:45 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from charon) To: tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> From: Giorgos Keramidas Date: 10 Jul 2001 05:13:44 +0300 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of "Mon, 09 Jul 2001 13:29:23 -0700" Message-ID: <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> Lines: 47 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert writes: > The base system is not registered into the packages > system, because of sysinstall. It's not installed from /usr/ports but from /usr/src. I don't know if it's a good idea to have a huge freebsd_base-5.0-current-20010624 in the packages list, or a zillion freebsd_base-bin, freebsd_base-etc, etc. installed. > There are a lot of navigational problems with the code; > Eric Melville is addressing some of them. This is true. > The disk partitioning sucks. This has worked for me without any problems, but you must have met some to say that it sucks. Can you elaborate on this, instead of throwing a plain 'sucks' and hoping that we agree with you? > The upgrade process should automatically discover the > FS mount points. Yep. Nice idea. Can we have a patch, please? > It's too "chatty". And this is too terse a complaint to have any meaning whatsoever. > The network setup should attempt to obtain a DHCP lease, > without having to be told to do it, at least for initial > install. No, please don't. I don't want sysinstall trying to play `smart' behind my back. > X11 is a distribution set, instead of a package. But... but... I did install only those parts of X11 that I wanted. I'm not sure I understand this claim. > Etc. (I could go on forever). Thank you for not doing so. -giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 19:56:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [64.211.219.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86E3537B401; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:56:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA05211; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:56:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAIzaqfk; Mon Jul 9 19:55:49 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA20027; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:12:07 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200107100312.UAA20027@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral To: jkh@osd.bsdi.com Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 03:11:50 +0000 (GMT) Cc: nik@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ] This is all patently ridiculous, especially given that we know you ] have a previously declared bias in being able to sell some sort of ] installer for money and would clearly wish to kill any "competition" ] for it, no matter how benign it would be to otherwise include it as an ] option (which is all Nik was saying). You are confusing me with Brett Glass. Yes, I believe that Brett should have been permitted to do his thing, and replace the installer. I personally would have liked to see a "Soft Updates" style license, where Brett would sell for a year, and then the code would revert to a simple BSD license. ] Whether you personally find any merit in sysinstall or not, and I'm ] often among the first to point out its many shortcomings, trying to ] kill it off for business reasons is just as obnoxious and ] Microsoft-ish as trying to kill off, say, RAID support because you ] just so happen to have a proprietary RAID solution you'd prefer users ] to use instead. Yeesh! Talk about a complete and total failure to ] get what FreeBSD is all about! I really have to wonder why you ] continue to hover around the community like a horsefly, year after ] year, without contributing anything but complaints about how things ] should be remoulded in your own image... It's a crock, Terry, and ] it stinks like a porta-potty in Texas at high noon. Yeah, pull the other one. PS: Speaking of RAID I'm the one who provided the patches that made the user space version of RAIDFrame run on FreeBSD. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 20:31:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp10.phx.gblx.net (smtp10.phx.gblx.net [64.211.219.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68B4B37B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:31:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp10.phx.gblx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA34554; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:31:13 -0700 Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp10.phx.gblx.net, id smtpdyp4BUa; Mon Jul 9 20:31:09 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA13663; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:32:19 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200107100332.UAA13663@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral To: keramida@ceid.upatras.gr Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 03:32:14 +0000 (GMT) Cc: wmoran@iowna.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ] Terry Lambert writes: ] ] > The base system is not registered into the packages ] > system, because of sysinstall. ] ] It's not installed from /usr/ports but from /usr/src. ] I don't know if it's a good idea to have a huge ] freebsd_base-5.0-current-20010624 in the packages list, or a zillion ] freebsd_base-bin, freebsd_base-etc, etc. installed. The problem is that without such registration, it's not possible to incrementally upgrade only those things which have changed between one distribution and another. The most aggregious problems are kernel structure changes, since there is no reverse dependency listing to tell you what you need to replace when you rebuild the kernel. The infamous "proc size mismatch" is one symptom of this, but really anything which links against libkvm is at risk.. ] > The disk partitioning sucks. ] ] This has worked for me without any problems, but you must have met ] some to say that it sucks. Can you elaborate on this, instead of ] throwing a plain 'sucks' and hoping that we agree with you? When you are doing an upgrade, and go into the partition editor, it has sticky state. If you do the natural thing, which is to immediately mark "NO!" on the newfs, then fill out the partition names, it does the wrong thing, and offers to newfs your disks for you ("Are you sure?"). This has caught a number of people I am aware of. It's also incapable of resizing partitions (basically, doing what "Partition Magic" can do). There's a distribution that comes with "Partition Magic", but you have to run it under Windows. ] > The upgrade process should automatically discover the ] > FS mount points. ] ] Yep. Nice idea. Can we have a patch, please? Will you commit it? It's pretty trivial: just read the "last mounted on" field from the superblock. If you'll commit it, I'll provide it. ] > It's too "chatty". ] ] And this is too terse a complaint to have any meaning whatsoever. It wants me to enter information that it could figure out, if it were just willing to do a little work. And it does not close the windows near the end. ] > The network setup should attempt to obtain a DHCP lease, ] > without having to be told to do it, at least for initial ] > install. ] ] No, please don't. ] I don't want sysinstall trying to play `smart' behind my back. If you pick "default installation" or "full installation", it _should_ try to be smart; if you pick "custom installation", you chould have to babysit it like you do today. In the "default" case, it should attempt to obtain a DHCP lease, and, failing that, ask the user to give it settings, or let them do IPv4 stateless autoconfiguration. Ad Hoc networking should always "just work". ] > X11 is a distribution set, instead of a package. ] ] But... but... I did install only those parts of X11 that I wanted. ] I'm not sure I understand this claim. It's on the CDROM as a distribution set, instead of being a package. This means that there is a special build process involved in getting it onto the CDROM image: a build process not covered under "make release". X11 is one of those things that needs to change when kernel structures are changed. It is very hard to reproduce a given distribution using only the tags for the distribution from the source tree. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 20:41:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [64.211.219.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D490A37B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:41:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA15179; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:41:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAGaayKD; Mon Jul 9 20:41:36 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA13676; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:42:52 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200107100342.UAA13676@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral To: jkh@osd.bsdi.com Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 03:42:47 +0000 (GMT) Cc: wmoran@iowna.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ] > The base system is not registered into the packages ] > system, because of sysinstall. ] ] As usual, you have no idea what you're talking about. The base system ] isn't registered into the package system because the base system isn't ] PROVIDED as a package nor does it come with the right meta-information ] to enable anything, much less sysinstall, to easily fake things out. That's what I said, only I was more terse. ] In other words, this isn't a sysinstall issue, it's a release building ] issue and you're free to change to the release building stuff to fix ] this if you like. Will you commit the changes? ] I'm sure you'll also say that since your tiny patch ] to enable alternate kernels wasn't adopted then it clearly isn't worth ] your while to do any significant work, but that's just not how the ] equation works. Something substantial which truly lowers the pain ] threshold in dealing with FreeBSD actually stands a greater chance of ] making it in than a small fix which is useful only to you and a ] handful of PAO developers, so you're still encouraged to put your ] money where your mouth is and not simply bat this ball back with ] some excuse as to why it isn't feasible or attractive. Go on, it ] would be a welcome change of character! :) You're on quite the tear today, aren't you? I'd still like to see the patch I made for alternate kernel configuration files committed, of course, since it can't hurt you, it's generally benign, and it helps others. But it hasn't stopped me from posting other patches. Some make it in, some don't. If I have the time to invest in it, and it's useful, then I'll probably get around to doing the metadata for the registration of base system components. Would you commit a patch to move the compiled in metadata out into an external file, as a first run at being able to register arbitrary programs into the package management system via data files? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 20:51:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [64.211.219.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE32F37B403 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:51:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06689; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:51:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAArca4bn; Mon Jul 9 20:51:26 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA13685; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:52:37 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200107100352.UAA13685@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral To: jkh@osd.bsdi.com, shannon@widomaker.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 03:51:15 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ] I never said a "CDROM must boot to sysinstall" and I challenge you to ] find a quote to that effect. What both Nik and I said was that it ] must be an OPTION to do so, somehow, or you haven't provided a stock ] FreeBSD experience and people are potentially going to be confused as ] to what "FreeBSD" means. This holds especially true if you haven't ] provided source code to your wizzy installer and they have no way of ] figuring out how or why it's even misbehaving, which you can bet it ] will since nobody ever writes perfect software. You know that the CDROM boot process is based on a 2.88M floppy image. If it "must be an OPTION to do so", then you are saying the same thing: that it must boot to sysinstall. I think you are still confusing me with Brett Glass: he's the one who wanted to do this a while back. ] I certainly don't see you answering questions on the freebsd-questions ] mailing list or you'd know that anything which creates confusion as to ] what a user is doing during the installation or general usage of ] FreeBSD only makes tech support that much more of a challenge. I'm ] not "defending sysinstall because it's my baby", I'm defending the ] right to have "FreeBSD" mean something as definitive as possible in ] the cradle-to-grave experience. If you want to write a much better ] installer and donate it so that we can make it the new default, so ] much the better and POLA will still be obeyed from a tech support ] perspective. I put my time in on -questions years ago. I tend to answer more in depth questions on -hackers and -current, like where to look to see how to do file I/O in the kernel. I'm well aware of the human factors issues with installers and software in general. ] And please, don't insult our intelligence by saying that tech support ] won't be an issue because you're going to putt a 1-800 number on your ] wizzy installer or something. People either won't call it or won't ] notice it, but they will go to www.freebsd.org and they'll eventually ] find their way onto IRC or the various mailing lists and ask why the ] pulsating red button never does the right thing when they push it. ] You, of course, will be nowhere to be found there and everyone else ] will be looking around and shaking their heads at this crazy person ] who's just wandered into the forum talking about a button that, from ] their perspective, doesn't exist. I'm not interested in doing a distribution; the releases I build stay in-house. I think you are thinking of Brett Glass. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 20:54:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E58EA37B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:54:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=20559ef3e64c8ec704d49ff8fd705867) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15JogG-00007R-00; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 21:59:24 -0600 Message-ID: <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 21:59:24 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Giorgos Keramidas Cc: tlambert2@mindspring.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > > Terry Lambert writes: > > > > The disk partitioning sucks. > > This has worked for me without any problems, but you must have met some to say > that it sucks. Can you elaborate on this, instead of throwing a plain 'sucks' > and hoping that we agree with you? Oh, come now. FreeBSD's disk partitioning has always sucked. It does suck somewhat less than many Linux linstallers, and a lot less than the OpenBSD installer, but it still shoves way too many details and options at the average user. Something akin to PartitionMagic would be an ideal way to go, given unlimited resources to throw against this particular problem. The main problem with sysinstall all along has been that it is a one-off program. There is no glitz in writing installers, and they're only used once, then rarely if ever again. OTOH, if you really want to take a stab at a FreeBSD problem that will make you famous should you succeed, we'd all like to see a lovely, simple installer that will run on both direct attached VGA and a serial console, is lovely and well thought out, and intuitive to use. Extra points if you can run it over X across the network. If we're going to have a beat-up-Terry night, lets at least make it over something meaningful, not over something as tired and obvious as the disk partition editor sucking. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 20:56: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp1.sentex.ca (smtp1.sentex.ca [199.212.134.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1255837B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:56:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from chimp.simianscience.com (cage.simianscience.com [64.7.134.1]) by smtp1.sentex.ca (8.11.2/8.11.1) with SMTP id f6A3u1O21358 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:56:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) From: Mike Tancsa To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Create a FreeBSD bootable CD Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 23:56:01 -0400 Message-ID: <61vkktc8p0lk2r8ucpjfuf2knsphnbg824@4ax.com> References: <10f.234f1eb.2879e474@aol.com> <000d01c107d0$9555ba60$0245a8c0@chojin> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 9 Jul 2001 15:32:14 -0400, in sentex.lists.freebsd.hackers you wrote: >Chojin wrote: >>=20 >> Hello, >>=20 >> Someone could tell me how create a bootable FreeBSD CD ? > >cd /usr/src >make buildworld >cd release >make [bunch of environment vars -- see handbook] release There was also an article on Daemon News recently http://www.daemonnews.org/200106/bootable_CD.html ---Mike Mike Tancsa (mdtancsa@sentex.net) =09 Sentex Communications Corp, =09 Waterloo, Ontario, Canada "Given enough time, 100 monkeys on 100 routers=20 could setup a national IP network." (KDW2) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 21:22:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1B0537B43E for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:22:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cross@math.psu.edu) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16820; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:22:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200107100422.AAA16820@math.psu.edu> To: Wes Peters Cc: tlambert2@mindspring.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 09 Jul 2001 21:59:24 MDT." <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:22:10 -0400 From: Dan Cross Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The main problem with sysinstall all along has been that it is a one-off > program. There is no glitz in writing installers, and they're only used > once, then rarely if ever again. The real solution is to define a little language for such maintenance tasks, and using that as the basis for installation packaging; something along the lines of Inferno's mush(1), which incorporate's mk-like dependency graph manipulation rules into a shell. This would make it easy to cleanly and elegantly automate all sorts of system tasks; from updating configuration files from a common repository, to installing or upgrading the base system. It could also form the basis of something like Sun's jumpstart for FreeBSD. Instead, we have as you say a one-off program specialized to do the task, but in a non-extensible, and non-flexible way. - Dan C. (Please direct flames to /dev/null.) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 21:31:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.freebsd.org (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C73E837B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:31:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.freebsd.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f6A4V2t15118; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:31:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: tlambert@primenet.com Cc: jkh@osd.bsdi.com, wmoran@iowna.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <200107100342.UAA13676@usr01.primenet.com> References: <200107100342.UAA13676@usr01.primenet.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010709213102G.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 21:31:02 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 13 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 03:42:47 +0000 (GMT) > Will you commit the changes? Well, I'd sorta like to *see* them before writing the coding equivalent of a blank check, but given reasonably functional implementations, sure, I'd be happy to commit your "sysinstall mountpoint auto-discovery" and "release package metadata" enhancements. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 21:41: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from math.psu.edu (leibniz.math.psu.edu [146.186.130.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD46537B403 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:41:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cross@math.psu.edu) Received: from augusta.math.psu.edu (augusta.math.psu.edu [146.186.132.2]) by math.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19326 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:41:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200107100441.AAA19326@math.psu.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:22:10 EDT." <200107100422.AAA16820@math.psu.edu> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:41:03 -0400 From: Dan Cross Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The real solution is to define a little language for such maintenance > tasks, and using that as the basis for installation packaging; > something along the lines of Inferno's mush(1), which incorporate's > mk-like dependency graph manipulation rules into a shell. > > This would make it easy to cleanly and elegantly automate all sorts of ^^^^ Whoops, that should be mash(1) > system tasks; from updating configuration files from a common > repository, to installing or upgrading the base system. It could also > form the basis of something like Sun's jumpstart for FreeBSD. > > Instead, we have as you say a one-off program specialized to do the > task, but in a non-extensible, and non-flexible way. Oh, one should note that under Inferno, mash has bindings to Tk that make building GUI interfaces very easy. These extensions work using the native Dis module extension system, but a similar principle could be realized under Unix via probing of the user's environment. Unfortunately, the Tk bindings in mash(1) are not as complete as they are for the normal Inferno shell (and Inferno's Tk is an independent implementation which makes use of the underlying /dev/draw primitives, anyway), but the approach is still valid overall. - Dan C. (http://www.vitanuova.com, http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 21:45: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.freebsd.org (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B225737B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:45:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.freebsd.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f6A4ilt15169; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:44:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: cross@math.psu.edu Cc: wes@softweyr.com, tlambert2@mindspring.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <200107100422.AAA16820@math.psu.edu> References: <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <200107100422.AAA16820@math.psu.edu> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010709214447K.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 21:44:47 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 18 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Dan Cross Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:22:10 -0400 > The real solution is to define a little language for such maintenance > tasks, and using that as the basis for installation packaging; > something along the lines of Inferno's mush(1), which incorporate's > mk-like dependency graph manipulation rules into a shell. Yeah, I think I even made a rough stab at this about 5 years ago in TCL - I got libdisk and libdialog "wrapped" for TCL access and a small main function written which brought up the first couple of sysinstall menus, but I rapidly ran out of time for it and was already creeped-out enough by libdialog that I didn't have the heart to pursue it using that particular UI solution. When can we see your own prototype, since you raised the topic last? :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 9 23:19:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web10301.mail.yahoo.com (web10301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A2D9037B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:19:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from supra87t@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20010710061933.84292.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.36.69.28] by web10301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 23:19:33 PDT Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:19:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Mohler Subject: zero copy NFS patch? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Im trying to understand what this patch accomplishes, and whether or not I should apply it. I work with Network Appliance boxes, and that last bit of tuning always comes in handy. Thanks! PS: The drive migration hints all worked well..thanks to everyone who had input! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 0:27:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bazooka.unixfreak.org (bazooka.unixfreak.org [63.198.170.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 663E837B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:27:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dima@unixfreak.org) Received: from hornet.unixfreak.org (hornet [63.198.170.140]) by bazooka.unixfreak.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AF893E28 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:27:37 -0700 (PDT) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: DDB 'kill' command Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:27:37 -0700 From: Dima Dorfman Message-Id: <20010710072737.4AF893E28@bazooka.unixfreak.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks, The attached patch implements a 'kill' command in DDB. Previously, it was possible to do `call psignal(xxx,yyy)` and have it DTRT. (This was very useful when you accidently got your system so deep in the hole that spawning kill(1) takes forever and even then possibly doesn't succeed.) However, psignal() doesn't respect locking by itself, so trying that now leads to all kinds of badness. This patch basically wraps the psignal() call in a 'kill' command that respects all necessary locks. Actually, it isn't very clear exactly which locks it should respect. The debugger is a special case in this way. This patch uses the PROC_TRYLOCK macro; if it fails, the command bails out. Thus, it can't use pfind()--the latter automatically does a PROC_LOCK--so it has to walk the allproc list manually. It does *not* attempt to get a shared lock on the allproc list. There is similar code in db_trace.c, and it doesn't call sx_slock(), either; I asked jhb about this a while ago, and all he said was that it is intentional. Comments? Suggestions? Thanks, Dima Dorfman dima@unixfreak.org Index: db_command.c =================================================================== RCS file: /stl/src/FreeBSD/src/sys/ddb/db_command.c,v retrieving revision 1.36 diff -u -r1.36 db_command.c --- db_command.c 2001/07/08 04:56:05 1.36 +++ db_command.c 2001/07/10 07:19:45 @@ -36,7 +36,12 @@ */ #include #include +#include +#include +#include +#include #include +#include #include #include @@ -62,6 +67,7 @@ static db_cmdfcn_t db_fncall; static db_cmdfcn_t db_gdb; +static db_cmdfcn_t db_kill; /* XXX this is actually forward-static. */ extern struct command db_show_cmds[]; @@ -413,6 +419,7 @@ { "show", 0, 0, db_show_cmds }, { "ps", db_ps, 0, 0 }, { "gdb", db_gdb, 0, 0 }, + { "kill", db_kill, CS_OWN, 0 }, { (char *)0, } }; @@ -566,4 +573,44 @@ db_printf("Next trap will enter %s\n", boothowto & RB_GDB ? "GDB remote protocol mode" : "DDB debugger"); +} + +static void +db_kill(dummy1, dummy2, dummy3, dummy4) + db_expr_t dummy1; + boolean_t dummy2; + db_expr_t dummy3; + char * dummy4; +{ + struct proc *p; + db_expr_t pid, sig; + +#define DB_ERROR(f) do { db_printf f; db_flush_lex(); return; } while (0) + + /* Retrieve arguments. */ + if (!db_expression(&sig)) + DB_ERROR(("Missing signal number\n")); + if (!db_expression(&pid)) + DB_ERROR(("Missing process ID\n")); + db_skip_to_eol(); + if (sig < 0 || sig > _SIG_MAXSIG) + DB_ERROR(("Signal number out of range\n")); + + /* Find the process in queston. */ + /* sx_slock(&allproc_lock); */ + LIST_FOREACH(p, &allproc, p_list) + if (p->p_pid == pid) + break; + /* sx_sunlock(&allproc_lock); */ + if (p == NULL) + DB_ERROR(("Can't find process with pid %d\n", pid)); + + /* If it's already locked, bail; otherwise, do the deed. */ + if (PROC_TRYLOCK(p) == 0) + DB_ERROR(("Can't lock process with pid %d\n", pid)); + else { + psignal(p, sig); + PROC_UNLOCK(p); + } +#undef DB_ERROR } To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 0:32: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.panix.com (mail1.panix.com [166.84.0.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30F2737B406 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:32:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsi@panix.com) Received: from panix1.panix.com (panix1.panix.com [166.84.0.226]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41D6E48794; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 03:31:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rsi@localhost) by panix1.panix.com (8.11.0/8.7.1/PanixN1.0) id f6A7VxR05700; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 03:31:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200107100731.f6A7VxR05700@panix1.panix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: panix1.panix.com: rsi set sender to rsi@panix.com using -f To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, wmoran@iowna.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <200107100342.UAA13676@usr01.primenet.com> <20010709213102G.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> From: Rajappa Iyer Date: 10 Jul 2001 03:31:59 -0400 Reply-To: rsi@panix.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan Hubbard writes: > Well, I'd sorta like to *see* them before writing the coding > equivalent of a blank check, but given reasonably functional > implementations, sure, I'd be happy to commit your "sysinstall > mountpoint auto-discovery" and "release package metadata" > enhancements. One of the nice things I like about FreeBSD (and I daresay I'm not alone in this) is that when I install it, I know that I'll get a kernel with a corresponding full and functional userland. I see the packaging of this `base system' as a bunch of (meta)packages as the thin edge of the wedge---pretty soon FreeBSD will resemble the hodge-podge collection of different (often conflicting) packages that Linux is. Rajappa -- a.k.a. Rajappa Iyer. They also surf who stand in the waves. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 1:22: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from speedracer.speedtoys.com (speedracer.speedtoys.com [216.36.69.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F92637B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 01:22:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gemohler@www.speedtoys.com) Received: from localhost (gemohler@localhost) by speedracer.speedtoys.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6A6AIY00550 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:10:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gemohler@www.speedtoys.com) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:10:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Geoff Mohler X-Sender: gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: wx0 jumbo frame support explosions.. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG When I enable jumbo frames in /usr/src/sys/pci.if_wx.c, and then set it via 'ifconfig wx0 mtu 9000' once the new kernel is booted..my system immediately goes zonkers...not even healthy enough to log. Just kernel panic and reboot. Idears? --- ****************************************** *New & Improved: http://www.speedtoys.com* ****************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 1:28:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from beppo.feral.com (beppo.feral.com [192.67.166.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C522C37B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 01:28:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from beppo (mjacob@beppo [192.67.166.79]) by beppo.feral.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6A8SKS85279; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 01:28:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 01:28:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob X-Sender: mjacob@beppo Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Geoff Mohler Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wx0 jumbo frame support explosions.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Not debugged yet. On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Geoff Mohler wrote: > When I enable jumbo frames in /usr/src/sys/pci.if_wx.c, and then set it > via 'ifconfig wx0 mtu 9000' once the new kernel is booted..my system > immediately goes zonkers...not even healthy enough to log. Just kernel > panic and reboot. > > Idears? > > --- > ****************************************** > *New & Improved: http://www.speedtoys.com* > ****************************************** > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 2:27:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gekko.i-clue.de (server.ms-agentur.de [62.153.134.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9814537B409 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 02:27:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from so@server.i-clue.de) Received: from i-clue.de (automatix.i-clue.de [192.168.0.112]) by gekko.i-clue.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id LAA28667; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:34:46 +0200 Message-ID: <3B4ACAE3.456B49AC@i-clue.de> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:29:07 +0200 From: Christoph Sold Reply-To: so@server.i-clue.de X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [de] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steven Ames Cc: Ronald G Minnich , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mjacob@feral.com Subject: Re: best way to migrate to a new disk References: <014f01c108ac$cc2e7b80$50038c3f@eservoffice.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Steven Ames schrieb: > > > > Don't use tar. It loses devices, can't handle holey files well and a > > > number of other minor clitches. Use dump instead. > > Hrm... what about 'rsync'? Does it suffer from the same problems as 'tar'? > I use rsync a lot because its incremental. This is off topic from migrating > to > a new disk, but I am curious... rsync won't handle holey files at all. Think about the space you're wasting. Stay with dump, or peruse dd. HTH -Christoph Sold To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 3:40:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [194.221.183.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3D01237B405 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 03:40:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from v.sturm@gmx.de) Received: (qmail 21106 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jul 2001 10:40:39 -0000 Received: from pd95653e2.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO volker) (217.86.83.226) by mail.gmx.net (mail01) with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 10:40:39 -0000 From: "Volker Sturm" To: Subject: g++ and substring extraction Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:41:55 +0200 Message-ID: <000201c1092c$f05f4130$0100a8c0@volker> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I am using g++ 2.95.3 on 4.3-STABLE. I want to do some string operations in one of my functions. The manual for g++ says that there are member functions like somestring.before(i); or somestring.at(0, i); Problem is that the compiler complains that these member functions don't exist. It only recognizes somestring.at(i); So I did a not very satisfying rebuild of the above functionality by a for(;;)-construct and concatenated the desired string character-wise. Is there a compiler option to be set so that I can access this advanced functionality? Does the FreeBSD-port miss some features? Volker Sturm To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 3:51: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (pc-62-31-42-140-hy.blueyonder.co.uk [62.31.42.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8FF537B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 03:50:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f6AAPD147933; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:25:13 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:25:13 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@osd.bsdi.com, shannon@widomaker.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010710112513.D16152@clan.nothing-going-on.org> References: <200107100352.UAA13685@usr01.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="YToU2i3Vx8H2dn7O" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200107100352.UAA13685@usr01.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 03:51:15AM +0000 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --YToU2i3Vx8H2dn7O Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 03:51:15AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > ] I never said a "CDROM must boot to sysinstall" and I challenge you to > ] find a quote to that effect. What both Nik and I said was that it > ] must be an OPTION to do so, somehow, or you haven't provided a stock > ] FreeBSD experience and people are potentially going to be confused as > ] to what "FreeBSD" means. This holds especially true if you haven't > ] provided source code to your wizzy installer and they have no way of > ] figuring out how or why it's even misbehaving, which you can bet it > ] will since nobody ever writes perfect software. >=20 > You know that the CDROM boot process is based on a 2.88M floppy > image. If it "must be an OPTION to do so", then you are saying > the same thing: that it must boot to sysinstall. Not at all. If you're thinking of shipping a CD, make sure that somewhere on that CD is a copy of the existing two floppy images, a copy of fdimage (or similar), and a paragraph of documentation that says: If you would prefer to use the standard FreeBSD installer (sysinstall) then take two blank floppies. Insert the first floppy, and run "fdimage mfsroot.flp a:", then insert the second floppy and run "fdimage boot.flp a:". Leave that floppy in the drive, and reboot (making sure to set your BIOS to "boot from floppy"). The FreeBSD Project installer will then start. Using this installer is not documented here (we strongly urge you to use the installer we provide and document) but it is covered in chapter 2 of the FreeBSD Handbook, at http://www.FreeBSD.org/. That would completely satisfy the requirements I've outlined. N --=20 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- --YToU2i3Vx8H2dn7O Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtK2AkACgkQk6gHZCw343W4BwCfUuHFgcjIEm0f3T0uuzKIgHyJ sNMAn3sULT6Eb3h4IQJlvyHQlkwZm9Xs =G4Cl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --YToU2i3Vx8H2dn7O-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 4:40:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [63.86.88.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD48137B405 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:40:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 42822755D; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:41:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 321C11D91; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:41:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:41:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Rajappa Iyer Cc: Jordan Hubbard , tlambert@primenet.com, wmoran@iowna.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <200107100731.f6A7VxR05700@panix1.panix.com> Message-ID: Approved: yep X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 10 Jul 2001, Rajappa Iyer wrote: :Jordan Hubbard writes: : :> Well, I'd sorta like to *see* them before writing the coding :> equivalent of a blank check, but given reasonably functional :> implementations, sure, I'd be happy to commit your "sysinstall :> mountpoint auto-discovery" and "release package metadata" :> enhancements. : :One of the nice things I like about FreeBSD (and I daresay I'm not :alone in this) is that when I install it, I know that I'll get a :kernel with a corresponding full and functional userland. I see the :packaging of this `base system' as a bunch of (meta)packages as the :thin edge of the wedge---pretty soon FreeBSD will resemble the :hodge-podge collection of different (often conflicting) packages that :Linux is. Where as I see the ability to incrementally upgrade only the parts of the OS that have changed from release to release as I can do right now in Irix. You know, it's funny that you told me Irix is antiquated not long ago Terry, it has most of the feature set you seem to be looking for. Jamie Bowden -- "It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold" Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur" Iain Bowen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 4:51:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peter3.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D122A37B403; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:51:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6ABpcM85714; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:51:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7A05380E; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:51:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: nathan@vidican.com Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Athlon MP / AMD 760MP Chipset (Athlon SMP question) In-Reply-To: <200107092108.f69L87E98563@mail.ipsnetwork.net> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:51:38 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20010710115138.A7A05380E@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Nathan Vidican" wrote: > I seem to recall a few discussions about the Dual Athlon buzz some > while back which had stated that the Athlon would essentially require a > completely different SMP spec than that currently utilized by the Intel > procesors. Assuming that this was true, one would assume that the O/S > too would require a different kind of SMP support in order to function > with these CPUs. It works fine. AMD implemented Intel MPSPEC 1.4 for SMP and it is closer to compliance than most Intel / serverworks systems. There is no magic required. I have a thunder K7 for my desktop with dual 1.2GHz AthlonMP's. All 4.x+ releases will boot on it. The only gotcha is that the older releases dont recognize the 766 IDE controller and run in biosdma mode instead of UDMA66/100. http://people.freebsd.org/~peter/thunderk7.txt I asked the Tyan people about the special power connector.. That's there solely for the AGPPro support. Other motherboards that have AGPPro have a second power connector. The base system uses nowhere near the power that the 460W power supplies are capable of, unless you start using the 200Watt+ double height AGPPro slot with the extra fingers for power feeds. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 4:56:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A441937B405 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:56:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rasputin@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #6) id 15Jw7i-0003rb-00; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:56:14 +0100 Received: (from rasputin@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6ABuDJ51068; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:56:13 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rasputin) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:56:13 +0100 From: Rasputin To: Jamie Bowden Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010710125613.A51035@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Reply-To: Rasputin References: <200107100731.f6A7VxR05700@panix1.panix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from ragnar@sysabend.org on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 04:41:19AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Jamie Bowden [010710 12:42]: > On 10 Jul 2001, Rajappa Iyer wrote: > :One of the nice things I like about FreeBSD (and I daresay I'm not > :alone in this) is that when I install it, I know that I'll get a > :kernel with a corresponding full and functional userland. I see the > :packaging of this `base system' as a bunch of (meta)packages as the > :thin edge of the wedge---pretty soon FreeBSD will resemble the > :hodge-podge collection of different (often conflicting) packages that > :Linux is. > Where as I see the ability to incrementally upgrade only the parts of the > OS that have changed from release to release as I can do right now in > Irix. I may be low on caffeine, but I don't see how breaking up the base system into packages makes it any easier to upgrade than using cvsup? Id have thought it would require more work to upgrade under some system similar to the ports tree (at least that's my experience) But like I said, I've probably misread this post. I thought the OP was referring to X in particular, and since that's upgraded via ports anyway, it does seem a good candidate to be installed by pkg_add (it's quite confusing for newbies to "pkg_info | grep XFree " and have it return nothing, especially when you're sat in Enlightenment...) -- Oh, I don't blame Congress. If I had $600 billion at my disposal, I'd be irresponsible, too. -- Lichty & Wagner Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns :: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 4:59:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hamster.franken.de (hamster.franken.de [193.141.110.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C2E837B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:59:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tanis@gaspode.franken.de) Received: from karnickel.franken.de (karnickel.franken.de [193.141.110.11]) by hamster.franken.de (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6ABxRo32772; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:59:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from tanis@gaspode.franken.de) Received: from gaspode.franken.de (lengfeld.core.main.franken.de [193.141.110.4]) by karnickel.franken.de (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6ABxR249149; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:59:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from tanis@gaspode.franken.de) Received: (from tanis@localhost) by gaspode.franken.de (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6ABxRv01590; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:59:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from tanis) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:59:27 +0200 From: German Tischler To: Volker Sturm Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: g++ and substring extraction Message-ID: <20010710135927.A1576@gaspode.franken.de> References: <000201c1092c$f05f4130$0100a8c0@volker> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5-current-20010403i In-Reply-To: <000201c1092c$f05f4130$0100a8c0@volker>; from v.sturm@gmx.de on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 12:41:55PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 12:41:55PM +0200, Volker Sturm wrote: > Hi, > I am using g++ 2.95.3 on 4.3-STABLE. I want to do some string operations > in one > of my functions. The manual for g++ says that there are member functions > like > somestring.before(i); or > somestring.at(0, i); Did you try the substr method ? For example string s2 = s1.substr(pos,length); --gt --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQEVAwUBO0ruHr7hO6NLB/FvAQG4/gf/f56G3AExH+st5wDAUF6C+u4rjbTMJClt /KhkFX0jz5Hyy4hU6oAOIGOZnCqEuJJkIufU0FVdd4I1Fv+bWr3Ue5dbGv9NB+Ic dyTEpOaKGLmYs+ixGY81wXtn4GQJYrZZ0Xjm56+rC99EU2kPuQcmsDa8aij0UyYp N9QqxKZIwxgkWvZQ+Z1ce6eztMmkJCFUdMFsREIASzfO58u+nToNlYtC4AhXOmt5 pXDxlioIRnE5io07rSKp+ILgiALQ8ElpxBOYfGqk0ZPBWKZwkRAoAs5joqFzlCTF 1tPgRw+zt3K8QU8mK1zPGQODfqcWer9O0WjgA9RGBz6pg/f5v4of+Q== =scMl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 5: 3:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [63.86.88.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 131E637B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:03:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id C3E6C755D; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C11F11D91; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:04:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Rasputin Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <20010710125613.A51035@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Message-ID: Approved: yep X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Rasputin wrote: :* Jamie Bowden [010710 12:42]: :> On 10 Jul 2001, Rajappa Iyer wrote: : :> :One of the nice things I like about FreeBSD (and I daresay I'm not :> :alone in this) is that when I install it, I know that I'll get a :> :kernel with a corresponding full and functional userland. I see the :> :packaging of this `base system' as a bunch of (meta)packages as the :> :thin edge of the wedge---pretty soon FreeBSD will resemble the :> :hodge-podge collection of different (often conflicting) packages that :> :Linux is. : :> Where as I see the ability to incrementally upgrade only the parts of the :> OS that have changed from release to release as I can do right now in :> Irix. : :I may be low on caffeine, but I don't see how breaking up the base system :into packages makes it any easier to upgrade than using cvsup? :Id have thought it would require more work to upgrade under some system :similar to the ports tree (at least that's my experience) :But like I said, I've probably misread this post. You're expecting the whole world to keep the source tree on disk and recompile the OS. Once I've done this, I cannot regress. This is unrealistic in production environments. I can update Irix without shutting down, and a single reboot at the end to load the new kernel. Everything is tracked via inst/swmgr, any part can be upgraded or downgraded as necessary, including dependancies. Jamie Bowden -- "It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold" Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur" Iain Bowen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 5:12:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D640B37B408 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:12:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@starjuice.net) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.31 #1) id 15JwOJ-000Bun-00 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:13:23 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: vfs.vmiodirenable undocumented Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:13:23 +0200 Message-ID: <45804.994767203@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Someone recently suggested that I tune vfs.vmiodirenable on a system with lots of memory. The CVS commit logs and the source tell me absolutely nothing about what this tunable does. Is anyone in a position to document it? Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 5:15:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns5.pacific.net.au (ns5.pacific.net.au [203.143.252.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34F1E37B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:15:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mckay@thehub.com.au) Received: from dungeon.home (ppp203.dyn249.pacific.net.au [203.143.249.203]) by ns5.pacific.net.au (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA20042; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 22:15:44 +1000 (EST) Received: from dungeon.home (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dungeon.home (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6ACGDF25604; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 22:16:13 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from mckay) Message-Id: <200107101216.f6ACGDF25604@dungeon.home> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: mckay@thehub.com.au, Kenneth Wayne Culver , Terry Lambert Subject: Re: more on latency References: <3B4A0F74.672D7B27@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <3B4A0F74.672D7B27@mindspring.com> from Terry Lambert at "Mon, 09 Jul 2001 20:09:24 +0000" Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 22:16:13 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday, 9th July 2001, Terry Lambert wrote: >Kenneth Wayne Culver wrote: >> >> I think I found the reason that my FreeBSD box is performing >> so poorly as a NATing router. When I do an ipnat -l to see >> what "active connections" are there on the router, a list >> about 3 pages long (using ipnat -l | more) appears. I think >> maybe it's having trouble because for every packet coming in >> and out of the router, it's got to look at that list of >> active connections for the right one to send to and from. Is >> there any way to make connections that aren't being used go >> away from the NAT faster? Thanks a lot. > >Don't run unnecessary daemons. > >The pcb lookups are a linear traversal, as well, and for >a large number of connections, the calllout wheel for >timers sucks. I can't imagine even the most inefficiently coded linear traversal causing this problem given the beefy machine being used. I set up a cable sharing system for friends of mine and it is a Pentium 100 with 2 ISA NICs! That system adds no more than 2 or so ms to the latency with 3 simultaneous counterstrike players. I used ipfw and natd in a trivial configuration on 4.3-R. I wonder if the problem is a lack of mbufs or some similar misconfiguration tragedy. "netstat -m" and "top" output might be helpful. Stephen. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 5:21: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A522A37B405 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:21:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@starjuice.net) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.31 #1) id 15JwWJ-000BxU-00 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:21:39 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: vfs.vmiodirenable undocumented In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:13:23 +0200." <45804.994767203@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:21:39 +0200 Message-ID: <45971.994767699@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:13:23 +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > Someone recently suggested that I tune vfs.vmiodirenable on a system > with lots of memory. The CVS commit logs and the source tell me > absolutely nothing about what this tunable does. > > Is anyone in a position to document it? Someone mailed me privately and pointed out that the sysctl is documented in tuning(7). Thanks, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 5:28:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from post.webmailer.de (natpost.webmailer.de [192.67.198.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C93F37B409; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:28:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Inferno@nightfire.de) Received: from blackangel.nightfire.de (p073.n01.ham.access.is-europe.net [195.179.168.73]) by post.webmailer.de (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00122; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:28:29 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20010710141558.01d3a790@post.strato.de> X-Sender: Inferno%nightfire.de@post.strato.de X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:26:43 +0200 To: Wes Peters From: Olaf Hoyer Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3B493922.3AC700@softweyr.com> References: <53494.994625611@critter> <20010708194534.X47870@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > ... or maybe we should remind ourselves that the only thing > > official about FreeBSD is the code. Let the CD vendors figure > > out ways to attract customers from each other, lets worry more > > about ways to attract 'customers' from other operating systems. > >Bill and Jordan are right on this one, guys. We (as in FreeBSD) can put >up the ISOs and every Tom, Dick and Harry with a CD burner can distribute >FreeBSD, and differentiate themselves on packaging, sales channel, and >customer service. Who knows, we might even get a few local shops to pre- >install FreeBSD on a machine or two, with their own FreeBSD discs thrown >in. It could happen. I'll talk to SuperDale and see if "Totally Awesome >Computers" will do this, they run their web site on FreeBSD. Hi folks! Well, I'm just returning from german Linuxtag, one of the biggest events concernung free software. (http://www.linuxtag.org) We ran also a booth there, providing information ( I also held some speech there, covering the history of BSD) and some contacts. We agreed to do something in Europe: - providing informational structure for BSD - providing a channel where people that want to do booths at exhibitions etc may contact and get some help, pre-financing (perhaps) and merchandise articles to help financing the whole thing. Basically, those people who showed up at our booth asked: Well, ok, it seems that this is a good OS, but where/whom can I contact in case of trouble? Who provides _commercial_ support? I'd love to buy a T-Shirt or a pin, can you sell me one? I already use BSD, but are there any books about it? ((No, not the handbook. People love to pay for additional literature helping make the bookshelf look cool.) So there certainly is money involved, and if we could organize it in a way, that money flows back to the project respectively into activities that help promoting BSD, that should be fine. This also includes the possibility (which needs to be checked for legal/trade commision issued yet) to provide any user with the possibility to order some CDs, T-Shirts whatsoever. BTW: BSD stands herein for: Free/Net/OpenBSD, BSD/OS, MacOS X, as far the BSD portion is concerned. Any input? Maybe we should take this over to -chat. Olaf To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 6:45:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from euphoria.confusion.net (dementia.confusion.net [205.166.119.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C032C37B405 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 06:45:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuyman@euphoria.confusion.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by euphoria.confusion.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f6ADjEZ26365; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 06:45:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 06:45:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Laurence Berland To: Rasputin Cc: Jamie Bowden , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <20010710125613.A51035@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Rasputin wrote: > I may be low on caffeine, but I don't see how breaking up the base system > into packages makes it any easier to upgrade than using cvsup? I think the discussion is Re: binary upgrades, like putting in the CD and hitting that upgrade option, which right now doesn't quite get you there afaik. > > Id have thought it would require more work to upgrade under some system > similar to the ports tree (at least that's my experience) > > But like I said, I've probably misread this post. > > I thought the OP was referring to X in particular, and since that's > upgraded via ports anyway, it does seem a good candidate to be > installed by pkg_add (it's quite confusing for newbies to > "pkg_info | grep XFree " and have it return nothing, especially when > you're sat in Enlightenment...) L: http://www.isp.northwestern.edu/~laurence To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 6:52:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.the-i-pa.com (mail.the-i-pa.com [151.201.71.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 166F937B405 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 06:52:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@iowna.com) Received: (qmail 18768 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2001 14:02:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO iowna.com) (151.201.71.193) by mail.the-i-pa.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 14:02:10 -0000 Message-ID: <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:49:18 -0400 From: Bill Moran X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > Oh, come now. FreeBSD's disk partitioning has always sucked. It does suck > somewhat less than many Linux linstallers, and a lot less than the OpenBSD > installer, but it still shoves way too many details and options at the > average user. Something akin to PartitionMagic would be an ideal way to go, > given unlimited resources to throw against this particular problem. Now, I've never used partition magic, but I (personally) find the FreeBSD partition program in sysinstall to be the easiest one I've ever used. What should be changed to make it easier? > The main problem with sysinstall all along has been that it is a one-off > program. There is no glitz in writing installers, and they're only used > once, then rarely if ever again. I disagree. I use sysinstall constantly. There's no easier way to install packages. I also direct newbies to use sysinstall to tweak parameters and install software. Especially on my home desktop system where I'm constantly installing/uninstalling software. As previously stated, I find the partitioning a perfect combination of easy to use/easy to control that I almost always use it when adding disks. While I won't disagree that there are things in sysinstall that can be improved (for example, you seem to get lost in menus at times) I don't think it should ever be pawned off as something that a user only sees once. Lurk -questions for a while and see how often a newbie is directed back to sysinstall to correct something or install a package. > OTOH, if you really want to take a stab at a FreeBSD problem that will > make you famous should you succeed, we'd all like to see a lovely, simple > installer that will run on both direct attached VGA and a serial console, > is lovely and well thought out, and intuitive to use. Extra points if you > can run it over X across the network. Obviously, these improvements would be good. -Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 6:54:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.the-i-pa.com (mail.the-i-pa.com [151.201.71.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7B4D937B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 06:54:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@iowna.com) Received: (qmail 18789 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2001 14:04:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO iowna.com) (151.201.71.193) by mail.the-i-pa.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 14:04:10 -0000 Message-ID: <3B4B0856.A67F02FD@iowna.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:51:18 -0400 From: Bill Moran X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <200107100332.UAA13663@usr01.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > If you pick "default installation" or "full installation", it > _should_ try to be smart; if you pick "custom installation", > you chould have to babysit it like you do today. > > In the "default" case, it should attempt to obtain a DHCP lease, > and, failing that, ask the user to give it settings, or let > them do IPv4 stateless autoconfiguration. Ad Hoc networking > should always "just work". If anyone is taking a vote, I disagree. I do not want any system ever assuming anything about my network. Even Win checks with the user before enabling DHCP. -Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 7:16:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from speedracer.speedtoys.com (speedracer.speedtoys.com [216.36.69.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3EE637B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:16:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gemohler@www.speedtoys.com) Received: from localhost (gemohler@localhost) by speedracer.speedtoys.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6AETXl23597; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:29:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gemohler@www.speedtoys.com) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:29:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Geoff Mohler X-Sender: gemohler@speedracer.speedtoys.com To: Matthew Jacob Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wx0 jumbo frame support explosions.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yay. :^) Timeframe? On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Matthew Jacob wrote: > Not debugged yet. > > > On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Geoff Mohler wrote: > > > When I enable jumbo frames in /usr/src/sys/pci.if_wx.c, and then set it > > via 'ifconfig wx0 mtu 9000' once the new kernel is booted..my system > > immediately goes zonkers...not even healthy enough to log. Just kernel > > panic and reboot. > > > > Idears? > > > > --- > > ****************************************** > > *New & Improved: http://www.speedtoys.com* > > ****************************************** > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > --- ****************************************** *New & Improved: http://www.speedtoys.com* ****************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 7:21:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (pc-62-31-42-140-hy.blueyonder.co.uk [62.31.42.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64D8437B405; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:21:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f6ADrr048842; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:53:53 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:53:53 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Olaf Hoyer Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010710145353.I16152@clan.nothing-going-on.org> References: <53494.994625611@critter> <20010708194534.X47870@elvis.mu.org> <3B493922.3AC700@softweyr.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010710141558.01d3a790@post.strato.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="X0cz4bGbQuRbxrVl" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010710141558.01d3a790@post.strato.de>; from Inferno@nightfire.de on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 02:26:43PM +0200 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --X0cz4bGbQuRbxrVl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 02:26:43PM +0200, Olaf Hoyer wrote: > We agreed to do something in Europe: >=20 > - providing informational structure for BSD > - providing a channel where people that want to do booths at exhibitions = etc > may contact and get some help, pre-financing (perhaps) and merchandise ar= ticles > to help financing the whole thing. Can I point you at the BSD EU Group mailing list, eug@bsd.eu.org, where much the same discussions are happening at the moment. N --=20 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- --X0cz4bGbQuRbxrVl Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtLCO8ACgkQk6gHZCw343VJUwCghIjNK1hsZIh1WFaP52pT1LeA SZUAmwTL1me+rlj47SYuYtsUQTYLvIgN =Fs/W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --X0cz4bGbQuRbxrVl-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 8:14:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2507737B40B for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:14:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from zaphod ([204.68.178.35] helo=softweyr.com ident=9aa4dfe30d29a6e7919b0a4dff55d2d9) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15JzIj-000FGK-00; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:19:49 -0600 Message-ID: <3B4B1B66.C011BF2B@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:12:38 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Moran Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Moran wrote: > > Wes Peters wrote: > > > Oh, come now. FreeBSD's disk partitioning has always sucked. It does suck > > somewhat less than many Linux linstallers, and a lot less than the OpenBSD > > installer, but it still shoves way too many details and options at the > > average user. Something akin to PartitionMagic would be an ideal way to go, > > given unlimited resources to throw against this particular problem. > > Now, I've never used partition magic, but I (personally) find the > FreeBSD > partition program in sysinstall to be the easiest one I've ever used. > What should be changed to make it easier? "How much of this disk do you want FreeBSD to use? ___%" Was that really so difficult to imagine? Better yet, a nice graphical view of the disk and the 4 possible entries in the partition table. Allow the user to grab the ends of partitions we can manipulate and move them around, either through keyboard navigation or with a mouse. Focus on the task we're attempting to accomplish: slicing the disk into 1 to 4 differnt logical parts, rather than on the crufty underlying details. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 8:16:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49A0F37B406 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:16:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from zaphod ([204.68.178.35] helo=softweyr.com ident=16cbea175edf1316610dc3e24419d83f) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15JzJx-000FGU-00; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:21:05 -0600 Message-ID: <3B4B1BB2.57ED1B00@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:13:54 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Laurence Berland Cc: Rasputin , Jamie Bowden , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Laurence Berland wrote: > > On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Rasputin wrote: > > > I may be low on caffeine, but I don't see how breaking up the base system > > into packages makes it any easier to upgrade than using cvsup? > > I think the discussion is Re: binary upgrades, like putting in the CD and > hitting that upgrade option, which right now doesn't quite get you there > afaik. I don't think the goal was to make the system easier to upgrade, but rather easier to subset. Do we really NEED to have sendmail on every DNS server we put together? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 8:37: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ambrisko.com (adsl-64-174-51-42.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.174.51.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8C6037B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:36:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko@ambrisko.com) Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by ambrisko.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f6AFa8781992 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:36:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ambrisko) From: Doug Ambrisko Message-Id: <200107101536.f6AFa8781992@ambrisko.com> Subject: Updated Aironet Sniffing patches for -stable To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:36:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have new patches for the Aironet sniffing and some major code clean-up of duplicated structures and defines it requires the latest -stable. http://www.ambrisko.com/doug/an/an.patch.cisco.rfmon2+ifconfig5 Applies to /usr/src if you don't have the linux ioctl patch from: http://www.ambrisko.com/doug/an/ installed then undef LINUX_COMPAT. Please test and then I will send-pr the patches in. Note this patch touches tcpdump & libpcap to add 802.11 support so a make world & kernel is recommended. This won't be needed when our tcpdump & libpcap is updated. Doug A. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 8:40:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from naboo.ethz.ch (naboo.ethz.ch [129.132.17.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 831A037B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:40:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from carlo@vis.ethz.ch) Received: by naboo.ethz.ch (Postfix, from userid 224) id 6D8E6275B7; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:40:27 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Inconsistency with wchar_t / wint_t in current To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:40:27 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010710154027.6D8E6275B7@naboo.ethz.ch> From: carlo@vis.ethz.ch (Carlo Dapor) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear fellow hackers I stumbled over an inconsistency with the data types wchar_t and wint_t. My machine is a FreeBSD-5.0 current as of July 8th, 2001. This following simple source code breaks unless You modify , see below. /* stddef.h is included by curses.h, but here I want to make sure the * modified version of stddef.h is picked up ! */ #include #include int main (char *argv[], int argc) { printf ("size of wchar_t is %d\n", sizeof (wchar_t)); printf ("size of wint_t is %d\n", sizeof (wint_t)); exit (0); return 0; } The error is: gcc -I. -O -Os -pipe -s -o mess mess.c mess.c: In function `main': mess.c:8: `wint_t' undeclared (first use in this function) mess.c:8: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once mess.c:8: for each function it appears in.) *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/tmp/wchar-mess. There are two different definitions of the both data types wchar_t and wint_t. Please refer to the output of the commands at the end of this mail. We have (n)curses.h, defining them both unsigned long; We have runetype,stddef,stdlib,wchar,wctype, defining them as _BSD_WCHAR_T_ / _BSD_WINT_T_ resp. _BSD_W{CHAR,INT}_T_ are defined in . Also, (n)curses is FSF originated, as oulined in the disclaimer. Now, I expected some symmetry here, note that wint_t is not defined in either {runetype,stddef,stdlib,wchar}.h. Also, wchar_t is not defined in wctype.h. The definitions in curses.h are dangerous, they should use _BSD_WCHAR_T_ / _BSD_WINT_T_, and both data types must be defined in the header files mentioned above. Is somebody working on reconciling the header files ? Eventually I fixed the build by inserting the following lines in a local stddef.h: *** /usr/include/stddef.h Fri May 25 02:29:30 2001 --- stddef.h Mon Jul 9 21:02:25 2001 *************** *** 61 **** --- 62,66 ---- + #ifdef _BSD_WINT_T_ + typedef _BSD_WINT_T_ wint_t; + #undef _BSD_WINT_T_ + #endif + Ciao, derweil, -- Carlo PS: Here are the revealing commands ! "fgrep wchar_t /usr/include/*.h /usr/include/sys/*.h | fgrep typedef" shows /usr/include/curses.h:typedef unsigned long wchar_t; /usr/include/ncurses.h:typedef unsigned long wchar_t; /usr/include/runetype.h:typedef _BSD_WCHAR_T_ wchar_t; /usr/include/stddef.h:typedef _BSD_WCHAR_T_ wchar_t; /usr/include/stdlib.h:typedef _BSD_WCHAR_T_ wchar_t; /usr/include/wchar.h:typedef _BSD_WCHAR_T_ wchar_t; Whereas "fgrep wint_t /usr/include/*.h /usr/include/sys/*.h | fgrep typedef" results in /usr/include/curses.h:typedef long int wint_t; /usr/include/ncurses.h:typedef long int wint_t; /usr/include/wchar.h:typedef _BSD_WINT_T_ wint_t; /usr/include/wctype.h:typedef _BSD_WINT_T_ wint_t; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 8:40:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99E0137B408; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:40:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.143.76.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.143.76]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15687; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4B21B3.26B76804@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:39:31 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nathan@vidican.com Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Athlon MP / AMD 760MP Chipset (Athlon SMP question) References: <200107092108.f69L87E98563@mail.ipsnetwork.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nathan Vidican wrote: > > I seem to recall a few discussions about the Dual Athlon > buzz some while back which had stated that the Athlon would > essentially require a completely different SMP spec than that > currently utilized by the Intel procesors. Assuming that this > was true, one would assume that the O/S too would require a > different kind of SMP support in order to function with these > CPUs. > Unfortuneately, a recent thread has me at a bit of a loss here; in > that people seem to be speaking about the processor/smp chipset as > though they function just like Intel's do. Assuming that this > conflicting information is indeed correct, then would it not be > feasible to assume that the code currently implemented for using SMP > implementations under FreeBSD would be portable to the new Athlon MP > processor line? You should check the SMP list archives. The systems work fine with FreeBSD, as it currently sits, but the motherboards are "jumbo sized", and take a strange power connector, so you can only get the power supply from one vendor (so far). There was an attempt to create a non-Intel standard called OpenAPIC, but no one implemented motherboards that supported it, so that attempt died. Instead, AMD implemented the Intel APIC specification; I'm not sure if they did it by licensing the patent (Intel had a patent on the APIC design), or if it's just been long enough for it to come off patent (I seem to remember the external 386 APIC chips were out in 1984 or a little after that, which would put them after the 1998 date for 14 years from date of issue for the patents on them). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 8:54: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FDE837B401; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:54:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.143.76.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.143.76]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20448; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:53:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4B2538.6FAC0C40@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:54:32 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Moran Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-config@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Package based configuration control References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <3B4A1E70.18A550B7@iowna.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Moran wrote: > > > While "going on forever" would actually be required in order > to fix things, I'm more interested in why you think that > sysintall needs "to go" - or did I misunderstand your previous > post? Do you think that there are simply so many problems > with sysinstall that it's not worth fixing? I guess I was > looking at the basic menu-driven layout and wondering > what you saw wrong with that. Well, for one thing, the packages menu puts up the wrong text field from the packages as the detailed description; for another, there are the navigation issues that Eric Melville is currently working on (space vs. tab vs. return). In general, I also think that the menus are too deep, and are not organized orthogonally (there should be as little difference as possible between the appearance of ports vs. packages vs. base system components, when it comes to installing them. It's also annoying that packages have to have their category headers compiled into the program as static strings, or they show up as two-headed stepchildren. But the main problem I have is that there are some things which are tracked, and some things which aren't; it should be the case that everything is tracked. A surprising number of people have expressed an interest in working on a package-based install in private email, so it's probably an idea whose time has come. We should probably resurrect the -config mailing list for this purpose. I've Cc:'ed that list on this response. If anyone wants to join the list, send a message to majordomo@freebsd.org With the body: subscribe freebsd-config@freebsd.org -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 8:55:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B873A37B405 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:55:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Bsdguru@aol.com) Received: from Bsdguru@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id i.b0.1719021d (25308); Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:54:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Bsdguru@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:54:59 EDT Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral To: billf@mu.org, hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In a message dated 07/09/2001 8:02:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, billf@mu.org writes: > BSDi really did make an impact. Just because you fail to see one doesn't mean > it didn't happen. You might want to read the cvs-all mailing list. If you'd > like, I can supply you with some procmail filters that will put all of the > commits of people who are/were supported by WC/BSDi/WRS into a folder called > 'direct-positive-result-of-bsdi-funding'. > > I'm also unclear on how you have installed FreeBSD in the past few years, > please clarify: > > [ ] purchased CD from BSDi > [ ] downloaded from ftp.freebsd.org (which BSDi was paying for) > [ ] downloaded from snapshot servers (partnership of USWest and WC/BSDi) > [ ] downloaded from FTP mirror (who got their data from ftp.freebsd.org..) > [ ] other (doesn't matter, the source that was used to generate the > binaries was stored on WC/BSDi equipment) > These mechanisms existed before without BSDi, so there was no "impact". Actually, ftp downloads got a LOT slower after BSDi took over, so i consider it a negative impact in that area. They made little difference as far as public perception is concerned. Obviously you got some dollars from them, which is good for you. BSDi wanted to put freebsd on the map, the same map as Linux. They failed. Come to terms with it. B To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 8:58:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C0E837B40B for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:58:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.143.76.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.143.76]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10701; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:58:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4B2638.8E577B10@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:58:48 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kc5vdj@yahoo.com Cc: Kenneth Wayne Culver , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more on latency References: <3B4A0F74.672D7B27@mindspring.com> <3B4A21C7.B9B63FE4@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jim Bryant wrote: > Terry Lambert wrote: > > Kenneth Wayne Culver wrote: > > > I think I found the reason that my FreeBSD box is performing > > > so poorly as a NATing router. When I do an ipnat -l to see > > > what "active connections" are there on the router, a list > > > about 3 pages long (using ipnat -l | more) appears. I think > > > maybe it's having trouble because for every packet coming in > > > and out of the router, it's got to look at that list of > > > active connections for the right one to send to and from. Is > > > there any way to make connections that aren't being used go > > > away from the NAT faster? Thanks a lot. > > > > Don't run unnecessary daemons. > > > > The pcb lookups are a linear traversal, as well, and for > > a large number of connections, the calllout wheel for > > timers sucks. > > Is there a way to get similar stats from natd? I don't know; you could look at the netstat output from the tun interface it uses, and that would give you some of the flow information. In general, FreeBSD doesn't completely track SNMP RFC mandated statistics; I've helped a local person hack code out of netstat to do things like reporting of the number of active connections using UCD SNMP, but it's not common to find FreeBSD keeping stats that match up 100% with the MIB entries people normally like to see from the generic MIBs. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 9: 0:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2375137B406 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:00:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Bsdguru@aol.com) Received: from Bsdguru@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id n.17.1841da86 (25308) for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:00:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Bsdguru@aol.com Message-ID: <17.1841da86.287c809d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:00:29 EDT Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral To: hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In a message dated 07/10/2001 11:14:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wes@softweyr.com writes: > "How much of this disk do you want FreeBSD to use? ___%" > > Was that really so difficult to imagine? Better yet, a nice graphical > view of the disk and the 4 possible entries in the partition table. Allow > the user to grab the ends of partitions we can manipulate and move them > around, either through keyboard navigation or with a mouse. Focus on the > task we're attempting to accomplish: slicing the disk into 1 to 4 differnt > logical parts, rather than on the crufty underlying details. > You are assuming the "average user" understands how much to allocate for root, usr, var and swap, which they dont. But you can certainly make suggestions based on the available space. An important question is: are you designing this for unix gurus, or for the guy in the bookstore that wants to use FreeBSD? (or a windows guy who doesnt understand unix partition concepts?). Is your goal to make it easier for the unix guy to install freebsd, or to expand the market by making FreeBSD usable by the less-than-clueful computer professional? Bryan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 9: 1:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E9F137B403; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:01:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.143.76.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.143.76]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26645; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4B26FE.6660FE5C@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:02:06 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <20010709144801.A38630@dragon.nuxi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David O'Brien wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 01:29:23PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Most of the work should be done using async mounts, or > > IT DOES. Terry please read the code... David: please install 4.3 --R E L E A S E--, the last official --R E L E A S E--. Don't install STABLE, and Don't Install CURRENT; I am well aware that the problems have been addressed since, but they have not been addressed by a --R E L E A S E--, or by any CDROM you can get without having to burn your own. Thanks, -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 9:12:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gekko.i-clue.de (server.ms-agentur.de [62.153.134.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 901E837B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:12:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from so@server.i-clue.de) Received: from i-clue.de (automatix.i-clue.de [192.168.0.112]) by gekko.i-clue.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id SAA00354; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:20:25 +0200 Message-ID: <3B4B29F5.7568871@i-clue.de> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:14:45 +0200 From: Christoph Sold Reply-To: so@server.i-clue.de X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [de] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bsdguru@aol.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear BSD"guru", Can you please refrain from trolling here? There is no point in bemoaning the past. Come up with a decent software package, put it in the ports tree, then maybe somebody will listen to you. The way you are acting just put your address into my mailers trash filter. Sorry about the wasted bandwith -Christoph Sold Bsdguru@aol.com schrieb: > > [lots of pointless lines deleted] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 9:14:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C06537B407 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:14:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@nuxi.ucdavis.edu) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (root@trang.nuxi.com [206.40.252.115]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f6AGDrR34741; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:13:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6AGDqq88305; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:13:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:13:52 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Terry Lambert Cc: Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010710091352.F48544@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <20010709144801.A38630@dragon.nuxi.com> <3B4B26FE.6660FE5C@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B4B26FE.6660FE5C@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 09:02:06AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 09:02:06AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > David O'Brien wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 01:29:23PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Most of the work should be done using async mounts, or > > > > IT DOES. Terry please read the code... > > > David: please install 4.3 --R E L E A S E--, the last > official --R E L E A S E--. /* * Miscellaneous support routines.. * * $FreeBSD: src/release/sysinstall/misc.c,v 1.40 1999/11/27 14:33:07 phk Exp $ ..snip... if (mount("ufs", mountpoint, RunningAsInit ? MNT_ASYNC | MNT_NOATIME : 0, (caddr_t)&ufsargs) == -1) { There you go Terry, async mounts for installs. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 9:22: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6F4D37B409; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:21:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.143.76.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.143.76]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28674; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4B2BC2.2E625A32@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:22:26 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nik Clayton Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Ted Mittelstaedt , Eric Wayte , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> <20010706092541.C23117@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> <3B49E58D.5EDDDA2A@mindspring.com> <20010709231626.B16152@clan.nothing-going-on.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nik Clayton wrote: > It's reasonable to want to control what get's called FreeBSD. I never said it wasn't; I would just like to draw the line on the far side of sysinstall being what shows up first thing when you boot from a CDROM. > The intent here is not to prevent third party installers -- > they can be open source, closed source, or whatever mix you > want. If you want to produce a commercial distribution of > FreeBSD that does not use sysinstall as the default > installation mechanism then go right ahead, make it the > default, have it come up automatically when your customers > boot from CD, and so on. > > However, if you want to call it FreeBSD, then, somewhere, > sysinstall (and whatever replaces it) must be available. > Put it on "boot-legacy.flp" if you want, and strongly urge > your customers not to use it. But make it available to > those that want it. This is amazingly more reasonable than previous posts, which have all suggested that it must be possible to boot the CDROM to sysinstall. Effectively, doing so would require that sysinstall take the front seat, and that you put another text menu entry on it to pick your installer. > Then I can make sure that the Handbook chapter on installation says, > right at the beginning: I also understand the documentation issue. Look, I've been programming professionally for ~22 years now, and I didn't just step off the turnup truck: you'll find my code in BSD all the way back to when I wrote the FAQ and patchkit for 386BSD 0.1. I know what professional software developement, and consistency in presentation to the user means for a product. ...Please look at it from the perspective of someone willing to work on improving the initial impression that FreeBSD leaves in a user's mind: FreeBSD is behind in the game from the start, since PCs come installed with Windows, and without a seperate partition that can be easily and immediately usable by a third party OS. It drops further behind because of the difficulty of transferring experience over to using the FreeBSD tools from people who have been trained up in the Windows style guide. I think that any attempt to make the initial experience less painful will require a lot of work, and the ability to license "Partittion Magic" or a similar tool, right out of the box, and have it be the first thing people see (or, preferrably, have it be one of the things that people see, as seamlessly integrated into the overall look and feel of the installation process as possible). The "Partition Magic for FreeBSD" isn't going to happen without $$$ being involved, I think. Walnut Creek sold a FreeBSD package that included one that ran under Windows. But the barrier to entry is still too high to be able to capture a reasonable mindshare. I _personally_ do not want to build such a distribution; I think it would open up whoever did that to extreme friction with the FreeBSD project: Hell, even the mere act of contemplating such a thing has practically set off a firestorm. No Thanks! I'll work on the periphery problems, hopefully enabling someone else to do the deed. Frankly, I don't see much of this work happening, unless there is at worst nose-thumbing ande grudging cooperation from the project. As Jordan says: Walnut Creek CDROM is dead; someone has to take up the mantle -- but not me... not today. There are too many people looking for a back to stick arrows into, and I'm happy to let the indians focus their scalping on Wind River Systems for now. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 9:29: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3E6137B406 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:28:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.143.76.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.143.76]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04038; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:28:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4B2D67.574C53D4@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:29:27 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Giorgos Keramidas Cc: Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > > The base system is not registered into the packages > > system, because of sysinstall. > > It's not installed from /usr/ports but from /usr/src. > I don't know if it's a good idea to have a huge > freebsd_base-5.0-current-20010624 in the packages list, or a zillion > freebsd_base-bin, freebsd_base-etc, etc. installed. BTW: I would settle for being able to select between base system components that are default (e.g. "bind" and "sendmail" and "perl", etc.), and those components from ports (e.g. "djbdns", and "postfix" and "newer than base version of perl") on an equivalency basis, but I don't see how you would manage this without the registration of base system components into the same configuration management system as the replacements you are permitted to select from for any given service or role. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 9:39: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB97737B409 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:38:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.143.76.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.143.76]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07833; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:38:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4B2FBD.5FD419C3@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:39:25 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsi@panix.com Cc: Jordan Hubbard , tlambert@primenet.com, wmoran@iowna.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <200107100342.UAA13676@usr01.primenet.com> <20010709213102G.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <200107100731.f6A7VxR05700@panix1.panix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Rajappa Iyer wrote: > > Well, I'd sorta like to *see* them before writing the coding > > equivalent of a blank check, but given reasonably functional > > implementations, sure, I'd be happy to commit your "sysinstall > > mountpoint auto-discovery" and "release package metadata" > > enhancements. > > One of the nice things I like about FreeBSD (and I daresay I'm not > alone in this) is that when I install it, I know that I'll get a > kernel with a corresponding full and functional userland. I see the > packaging of this `base system' as a bunch of (meta)packages as the > thin edge of the wedge---pretty soon FreeBSD will resemble the > hodge-podge collection of different (often conflicting) packages that > Linux is. That would be an option, but it would certianly not be the default. I can install a lot of stuff today that I would claim would put my system in the "hodge-podge" category, most of them from ports, some of them from the net. PS: Note that you only get a kernel if you create your release from the GENERIC config; using a different config with the "make release" process results in a CDROM that boots and installs your "/kernel.MYCONFIG", but doesn't do the final step of copying that file to "/kernel", which renderes the resulting system unbootable. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 9:44:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B668A37B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:44:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.143.76.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.143.76]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04694; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:44:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4B3107.39E8CAA3@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:44:55 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jamie Bowden Cc: Rajappa Iyer , Jordan Hubbard , tlambert@primenet.com, wmoran@iowna.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jamie Bowden wrote: > Where as I see the ability to incrementally upgrade only > the parts of the OS that have changed from release to release > as I can do right now in Irix. > > You know, it's funny that you told me Irix is antiquated not long ago > Terry, it has most of the feature set you seem to be looking for. I don't think I said that, I think I said SGI was a dead husk, after their suicidal leap... certainly, Irix has better cluster scalability than most OS's of any vintage, with XFS and their volume manager. The only OS that's even close is AIX. The one really antiquated thing I can point to in Irix is the ability to stage a quota denial of service attack on someone by "giving" them core dump files using the SVR3 chown semantics, but I think that's optional now that people have complained about it so long. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 9:52:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.freebsd.org (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D819437B503 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:52:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.freebsd.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f6AGq0t18073; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:52:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: Bsdguru@aol.com Cc: billf@mu.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010710095200C.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:52:00 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 27 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Bsdguru@aol.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:54:59 EDT > These mechanisms existed before without BSDi, so there was no "impact". > Actually, ftp downloads got a LOT slower after BSDi took over, so i consider > it a negative impact in that area. This is typical "Elvis hasn't been seen lately. Aliens are hard to spot too. Conclusion: Elvis is an Alien" thinking. BSDi had no effect on ftp.freebsd.org's services and kept things completely unchanged there, it was merely other factors which changed. The Internet started to suck more and changing economic realities in the ISP space forced the archive to move to the east coast, where things only got progressively worse. This would have occurred even sooner had Walnut Creek CDROM been involved and, in fact, we probably would have pulled the plug a lot sooner since WC had far less money to spend on things like that. Bill's points are valid too - looking exclusively on the dark side of things is an engineer's predilection that's not always fair or right, and though an honest discussion on what went wrong and right is fine, let's try to keep the crack-smoking conspiracy theories to a minimum. Thank you. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 9:54:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fac13.ds.psu.edu (fac13.ds.psu.edu [146.186.61.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E807C37B401; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:54:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu) Received: from fac13.ds.psu.edu (localhost.ds.psu.edu [127.0.0.1]) by fac13.ds.psu.edu (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6AGgCx34740; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:42:12 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu) Message-Id: <200107101642.f6AGgCx34740@fac13.ds.psu.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: nathan@vidican.com, questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Athlon MP / AMD 760MP Chipset (Athlon SMP question) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:39:31 PDT." <3B4B21B3.26B76804@mindspring.com> From: dochawk@psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:42:12 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG terry tumbled, > but the motherboards are "jumbo sized", and take a strange > power connector, so you can only get the power supply from > one vendor (so far). two, actually. > Instead, AMD implemented the Intel APIC specification; > I'm not sure if they did it by licensing the patent > (Intel had a patent on the APIC design), or if it's > just been long enough for it to come off patent The Athlon uses the Alpha's ev6 spec, not the intel spec. hawk -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 9:55:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.freebsd.org (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B591D37B40B; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:55:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.freebsd.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f6AGtDt18115; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:55:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG, wmoran@iowna.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <3B4B26FE.6660FE5C@mindspring.com> References: <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <20010709144801.A38630@dragon.nuxi.com> <3B4B26FE.6660FE5C@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010710095513W.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:55:13 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 12 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:02:06 -0700 > David: please install 4.3 --R E L E A S E--, the last > official --R E L E A S E--. I T I S T H E R E. Man, Terry, do you really get off on being so publically misinformed or is there something more pathological at work here? :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 9:56:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EBDA37B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:56:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.143.76.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.143.76]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03529; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4B33DA.242EFDDC@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:56:58 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rasputin Cc: Jamie Bowden , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <200107100731.f6A7VxR05700@panix1.panix.com> <20010710125613.A51035@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Rasputin wrote: > > Where as I see the ability to incrementally upgrade only > > the parts of the OS that have changed from release to > > release as I can do right now in Irix. > > I may be low on caffeine, but I don't see how breaking up > the base system into packages makes it any easier to upgrade > than using cvsup? > > Id have thought it would require more work to upgrade > under some system similar to the ports tree (at least > that's my experience) We're talking packages, not ports. We're also talking about being able to maintain basic configuration control, without having to screw around without compiling the sources yourself. Consider binary upgrades for things like security alerts, which could happen automatically, based on whatever criteria you specify (including "root exploit" or "Never Do Anything Without My Permission"). In the worst case, you could need to compile a newer version of "sendmail" or "bind" than that which came with the system, to resolve an exploit. You would still want to end up with a "RELEASE plus known patch sets" when you were done, so that you could feel both comfortable about your ability to reproduce your production system, should you need to replace it or to scale to more customers. Running "some snapshot of STABLE" is not really the way to do this. And there is the commercial support issue: what constitutes a "supported configuration"? Certainly not a "checkout your source tree from your local repository copy using this date tag: XXX". Also, you should be aware that in commercial deployment, having a compiler on board the system is often considered a bad thing, as it permits entre to exploiters bringing their own programs onto the system. One of the things that TrustedBSD played around with is binary signatures, where it is not possible to run a binary that does not have a corresponding approved signature. In such a system, it's really imperitive that configuration management occur through a centralized binary blessed to install only blessed binaries. That _really_ precludes rebuilding from sources. > But like I said, I've probably misread this post. > > I thought the OP was referring to X in particular, and > since that's upgraded via ports anyway, it does seem a > good candidate to be installed by pkg_add (it's quite > confusing for newbies to "pkg_info | grep XFree " and > have it return nothing, especially when you're sat in > Enlightenment...) This really demonstrates the problem with having base system components (I include X11, bind, sendmail, etc. in this) that are not easily upgraded. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 9:56:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.the-i-pa.com (mail.the-i-pa.com [151.201.71.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9791337B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:56:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@iowna.com) Received: (qmail 20080 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2001 17:06:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO iowna.com) (151.201.71.193) by mail.the-i-pa.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 17:06:00 -0000 Message-ID: <3B4B32F3.7AC70D66@iowna.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:53:07 -0400 From: Bill Moran X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> <3B4B1B66.C011BF2B@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > > Bill Moran wrote: > > > > Wes Peters wrote: > > > > > Oh, come now. FreeBSD's disk partitioning has always sucked. It does suck > > > somewhat less than many Linux linstallers, and a lot less than the OpenBSD > > > installer, but it still shoves way too many details and options at the > > > average user. Something akin to PartitionMagic would be an ideal way to go, > > > given unlimited resources to throw against this particular problem. > > > > Now, I've never used partition magic, but I (personally) find the > > FreeBSD > > partition program in sysinstall to be the easiest one I've ever used. > > What should be changed to make it easier? > > "How much of this disk do you want FreeBSD to use? ___%" This would be a nice little addition (and probably easy to add) but I don't see a tremendious gain from this. > Better yet, a nice graphical > view of the disk and the 4 possible entries in the partition table. I would classify this as "fluff and glitz", but that may just be me. > Allow > the user to grab the ends of partitions we can manipulate and move them > around, either through keyboard navigation or with a mouse. Hmmm ... we're really aiming at novice users here now, aren't we? I suppose that's not a bad thing, but I just never thought of going so far with it. > Focus on the > task we're attempting to accomplish: slicing the disk into 1 to 4 differnt > logical parts, rather than on the crufty underlying details. Hmmm ... well, I was never upset with the "crufty details" ... I rather like to know what's going on under the hood all the time. Then again, that's me. If you're targeting newbies and other less-educated (or less "I sure would like to figure this out" inclined) people, then what you're suggesting would probably be a good idea. OTOH: if you made it so the "crufty details" were no longer visible at all, I would be upset to NOT be able to see what was going on. > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" You're on Earth. No further explanation needed. -Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 9:58:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285CD37B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:58:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.143.76.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.143.76]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14154; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:58:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4B345D.187202B@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:59:09 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jamie Bowden Cc: Rasputin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jamie Bowden wrote: > You're expecting the whole world to keep the source tree on disk and > recompile the OS. Once I've done this, I cannot regress. This is > unrealistic in production environments. I can update Irix without > shutting down, and a single reboot at the end to load the new kernel. > > Everything is tracked via inst/swmgr, any part can be upgraded or > downgraded as necessary, including dependancies. In a production environment, the "downgraded" part is oftem the most critical of the two, since "upgrades" often aren't, and being able to "undo" one that is more trouble than it's worth is often worth the entire price of the system, when you are up against a wall. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 10: 1:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B4E137B407; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:01:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from culverk@wam.umd.edu) Received: from rac4.wam.umd.edu (IDENT:root@rac4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.144]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24838; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:01:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac4.wam.umd.edu (IDENT:sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA15309; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:01:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (culverk@localhost) by rac4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15305; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:01:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac4.wam.umd.edu: culverk owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:01:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Wayne Culver To: nathan@vidican.com Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Athlon MP / AMD 760MP Chipset (Athlon SMP question) In-Reply-To: <200107092108.f69L87E98563@mail.ipsnetwork.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG SMP works on athlons... while internally AMD uses the Alpha EV6 bus to give each CPU a full 200MHz point-to-point bus between it and it's RAM, to the OS, it just looks like any other intel based SMP machine. (It just runs faster) Ken On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Nathan Vidican wrote: > I seem to recall a few discussions about the Dual Athlon buzz some > while back which had stated that the Athlon would essentially require a > completely different SMP spec than that currently utilized by the Intel > procesors. Assuming that this was true, one would assume that the O/S > too would require a different kind of SMP support in order to function > with these CPUs. > Unfortuneately, a recent thread has me at a bit of a loss here; in > that people seem to be speaking about the processor/smp chipset as > though they function just like Intel's do. Assuming that this > conflicting information is indeed correct, then would it not be > feasible to assume that the code currently implemented for using SMP > implementations under FreeBSD would be portable to the new Athlon MP > processor line? > The threads I'm speaking of, were to freebsd-questions most > recently wherein someone had been asking if the new Tyan ThunderK7 > motherboard would work with FreeBSD. The general concencus was 'why > not', from the responses I had read... but no one who answered really > seemed to know for sure. > Just for the record, is it or is it not possible to run SMP with > the new Athlon MP Processors; or has no-one even tried yet? Currently > the only O/S I know of which is promoting the usage of such systems is > Novell Netware, and I am just curious if FreeBSD will (if it is not > currently) be capable of running on such a system? > > > -- > Nathan Vidican > Nathan@Vidican.com > http://Nathan.Vidican.com/ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 10: 4: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9822337B401; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:04:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dg@root.com) Received: (from dg@localhost) by root.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f6AGqoS32871; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:52:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dg) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:52:50 -0700 From: David Greenman To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: Greg Lehey , "Julian Stacey Jhs@jhs.muc.de" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, bod@FreeBSDFoundation.org Subject: Re: Re. The Foundation [was Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral] Message-ID: <20010710095250.M89686@nexus.root.com> References: <20010710061919.V80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> <200107092058.f69KwgU09270@aslan.scsiguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200107092058.f69KwgU09270@aslan.scsiguy.com>; from gibbs@scsiguy.com on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 02:58:42PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>> The Foundation has yet to approach Wind River about the Trademark, >>> so I cannot speculate on their disposition. >> >>What are your plans to change this situation? > >The Foundation isn't planning to do anything about the trademark or >in regards to any of its other proposed activities until sufficient >donations have arrived. I believe that the financial statement released >with our announcement makes it clear why this must be the case. How much do you think it will cost to transfer the trademark? -DG David Greenman Co-founder, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org President, TeraSolutions, Inc. - http://www.terasolutions.com Pave the road of life with opportunities. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 10: 8:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gekko.i-clue.de (server.ms-agentur.de [62.153.134.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA00B37B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:08:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from so@server.i-clue.de) Received: from i-clue.de (automatix.i-clue.de [192.168.0.112]) by gekko.i-clue.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id TAA00908; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:16:13 +0200 Message-ID: <3B4B370A.497E89D8@i-clue.de> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:10:34 +0200 From: Christoph Sold Reply-To: so@server.i-clue.de X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [de] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Halliday Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can someone verify this? References: <3B4793CB.FDC5B64@penix.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Paul Halliday schrieb: > > FreeBSD dissent.p450.box 4.3-RC FreeBSD 4.3-RC #3: Sun Jun 10 22:27:47 > EDT 2001 root@dissent.p450.box:/usr/src/sys/compile/workstation > i386 > > FreeBSD useless.dell.box 4.3-STABLE FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE #6: Fri Jul 6 > 18:57:08 EDT 2001 > root@useless.dell.box:/usr/src/sys/compile/useless i386 > > mount /dev/acd0c /cdrom > should obviously fail, yet causes... > > panic: vm -fault on nofault entry, addr: c3e1e000 # FreeBSD msgate.ms-agentur.de 4.3-Stable FreeBSD 4.3-Stable#1: Mon Jul 9 20:26:31 CEST 2001 so@msgate.ms-agentur.de:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/MSGATE i386 # dmesg|grep acd acd0: CDROM ata ata1-master using PIO4 # mount /dev/acd0c /cdrom /** with an ISO CD-ROM **/ mount: /dev/acd0c on /cdrom: incorrect super block # mount /dev/acd0c /cdrom /** without any disc **/ mount: /dev/acd0c: device busy No panic, no problem. Sorry, did not try with audio CDs -- none at work available HTH -Christoph Sold To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 10:11:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from aslan.scsiguy.com (aslan.scsiguy.com [63.229.232.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A150A37B407; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:10:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gibbs@scsiguy.com) Received: from scsiguy.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.scsiguy.com (8.11.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f6AHAlU20752; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:10:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gibbs@scsiguy.com) Message-Id: <200107101710.f6AHAlU20752@aslan.scsiguy.com> To: David Greenman Cc: Greg Lehey , "Julian Stacey Jhs@jhs.muc.de" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, bod@FreeBSDFoundation.org Subject: Re: Re. The Foundation [was Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral] In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:52:50 PDT." <20010710095250.M89686@nexus.root.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:10:46 -0600 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>> The Foundation has yet to approach Wind River about the Trademark, >>>> so I cannot speculate on their disposition. >>> >>>What are your plans to change this situation? >> >>The Foundation isn't planning to do anything about the trademark or >>in regards to any of its other proposed activities until sufficient >>donations have arrived. I believe that the financial statement released >>with our announcement makes it clear why this must be the case. > > How much do you think it will cost to transfer the trademark? We're seeking legal counsel on this issue now. We should have a better estimate shortly. -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 10:13: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CCDA37B405 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:13:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.143.76.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.143.76]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23197; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:12:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4B3798.31B4B8E1@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:12:56 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Moran Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Moran wrote: > Now, I've never used partition magic, but I (personally) > find the FreeBSD partition program in sysinstall to be the > easiest one I've ever used. What should be changed to make > it easier? 1) Buy a new laptop 2) Make the Windows partition smaller 3) Install FreeBSD #1 & #3 are doable, even though #3 is counter to all the training we put people through to get them Windows savvy. #2 can not be done in the FreeBSD partition program, without destroying your Windows partition, but Partition Magic can do it, no problem. > I disagree. I use sysinstall constantly. There's no easier > way to install packages. ??? You suggested that people keep up to date using "cvsup"; but doing that won't result in new categories showing up in "sysinstall", nor in your local packages archive being updated to match your "cvsup" sources. > > OTOH, if you really want to take a stab at a FreeBSD > > problem that will make you famous should you succeed, > > we'd all like to see a lovely, simple installer that > > will run on both direct attached VGA and a serial console, > > is lovely and well thought out, and intuitive to use. > > Extra points if you can run it over X across the network. > > Obviously, these improvements would be good. Part of this is concurrent version management. Right now, I can't make concurrent distribution images for things like PicoBSD. If I can install components on a one-off basis, I can build a "PicoBSD" cafeteria-style. For the serial console to work, the 2.88M boot floppy image needs to include a "/boot.config" with a "-P" in it, so that it comes up on video and keyboard if a keyboard is present, but comes up on serial, if one is not (the "-P" approach isn't perfect; as noted in the handbook, the probe code can fail to probe the keyboard unless it's a 101/102 key or better: it should use the BIOS instead, as the BIOS always gets it right). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 10:15:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1ED537B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:15:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.143.76.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.143.76]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07681; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4B3866.FBFF9A65@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:16:22 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Moran Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <200107100332.UAA13663@usr01.primenet.com> <3B4B0856.A67F02FD@iowna.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Moran wrote: > > If you pick "default installation" or "full installation", it > > _should_ try to be smart; if you pick "custom installation", > > you chould have to babysit it like you do today. > > > > In the "default" case, it should attempt to obtain a DHCP lease, > > and, failing that, ask the user to give it settings, or let > > them do IPv4 stateless autoconfiguration. Ad Hoc networking > > should always "just work". > > If anyone is taking a vote, I disagree. I do not want any system > ever assuming anything about my network. Even Win checks with the > user before enabling DHCP. FYI: The networking bootstrap process I described above is derived from the process used by Windows 98 and above, as it comes configured by default on systems with integral network cards. The "link.local" draft RFC for doing the IPv4 stateless autoconfiguration was coauthored by a Microsoft employee. See the IETF "ZEROCONF" working group for more details: this stuff is going to be part of the standards soon. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 10:18:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEC0537B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:18:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.143.76.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.143.76]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19251; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4B38ED.2EFE0A9B@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:18:37 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: Laurence Berland , Rasputin , Jamie Bowden , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <3B4B1BB2.57ED1B00@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > > I think the discussion is Re: binary upgrades, like putting > > in the CD and hitting that upgrade option, which right now > > doesn't quite get you there afaik. > > I don't think the goal was to make the system easier to upgrade, > but rather easier to subset. Do we really NEED to have sendmail > on every DNS server we put together? A properly designed system would support both. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 10:24: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E0C537B401; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:24:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.143.76.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.143.76]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20484; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4B3A58.A6CFC592@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:24:40 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <20010709144801.A38630@dragon.nuxi.com> <3B4B26FE.6660FE5C@mindspring.com> <20010710091352.F48544@dragon.nuxi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David O'Brien wrote: > There you go Terry, async mounts for installs. Thanks. This does not appear to work on upgrades for things like /usr/ports. Now I will have to go find out why; how annoying: yet more work. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 10:29: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ABBE37B409; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:29:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.143.76.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.143.76]) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16621; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4B3B84.A5D7F91E@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:29:40 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG, wmoran@iowna.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <20010709144801.A38630@dragon.nuxi.com> <3B4B26FE.6660FE5C@mindspring.com> <20010710095513W.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan Hubbard wrote: > > David: please install 4.3 --R E L E A S E--, the last > > official --R E L E A S E--. > > I T I S T H E R E. Man, Terry, do you really get off on being so > publically misinformed or is there something more pathological at work > here? :-) Yeah, there something more pathological: what the code says is not what the code appears to do, in practice, during an upgrade. As I told David, now I just have to find out why... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 10:37:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.the-i-pa.com (mail.the-i-pa.com [151.201.71.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EF01937B405 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:37:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@iowna.com) Received: (qmail 20387 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2001 17:46:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO iowna.com) (151.201.71.193) by mail.the-i-pa.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 17:46:23 -0000 Message-ID: <3B4B3C69.B2267DE8@iowna.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:33:29 -0400 From: Bill Moran X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010710095200C.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan Hubbard wrote: > From: Bsdguru@aol.com > > These mechanisms existed before without BSDi, so there was no "impact". > > Actually, ftp downloads got a LOT slower after BSDi took over, so i consider > > it a negative impact in that area. > BSDi had no effect on ftp.freebsd.org's services and kept things > completely unchanged there, it was merely other factors which changed. > The Internet started to suck more and changing economic realities in > the ISP space forced the archive to move to the east coast, where > things only got progressively worse. This would have occurred even > sooner had Walnut Creek CDROM been involved and, in fact, we probably > would have pulled the plug a lot sooner since WC had far less money to > spend on things like that. I'm going to go out on a limb here ... There are how many comitters now? and how many developers? And how many people like me who are VERY reliant on FreeBSD and are not (yet) serious developers? Add all those numbers up and you get a whole LOT of people. The upshot being that keeping that many people informed accurately as to (for example) whether or not the BSDi merger caused the ftp site to slow down is going to be tough. Very tough. Damn near impossible. Yet, just about every one of those folks is going to know that BSDi bought Walnut Creek, and just about every one of those people is going to notice when the ftp site slows down. And a frightening percentage of them are going to put two and two together and come up with an answer that sounds right, even if it isn't. In the lack of an authoritative announcement such as "Because of Internet infrastructure problems we are moving ftp.freebsd.org and we don't know whether this will improve the situation or hurt it." Along with the subsequent announcements that the change didn't particularly help. Look at it, how many sources of (mis)information are there? All the mailing lists? The "announce" section of the website? Daemonnews? trash^H^H^H^H^Hslashdot? (who sometimes seem to hate BSD as much as they hate Microsoft) With all these, the inner workings of how one merger or another affects the big picture are simply not going to be broadly available. Making them broadly avialable would be a wonderful thing for the community. Perhaps an announcements page on the web site that is updated with more frequent announcements? Maybe a special mailing list that can be used to send out frequent announments as to what's going on in general. How would you keep speculation from getting out of hand? Personally, I don't know. But I think (overall) at least part of the solution to the arguments that have been occurring is to improve the communication channels. So that's my "going out on a limb" for today. Hope this dissertation is actually helpful/useful. -Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 10:51:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tabby.kudra.com (gw.kudra.com [199.6.32.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E102B37B407 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:51:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@tabby.kudra.com) Received: (from robert@localhost) by tabby.kudra.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) id f6AHp5e86984 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:51:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:51:04 -0400 From: Robert Sexton To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: a DDB Question. Message-ID: <20010710135104.A86848@tabby.kudra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm trying to track down a memory leak using ddb. DDB is a really neat piece of work, but its not very well documented. I notice that the man page is dated 1996, and folks have added useful things like 'call', that are undocumented. Specifically, what it the correct syntax to examine a static variable in a kernel routine? I built a little bit of code to help me out, like this: static int my_test_routine() { static int counter; return(counter++); } So exactly what would be the syntax to examine 'counter'? Thanks. -- Robert Sexton - robert@kudra.com, Cincinnati OH, USA There's safety in numbers... Large prime numbers. - John Gilmore To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 10:54:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.the-i-pa.com (mail.the-i-pa.com [151.201.71.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BD0A937B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:54:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@iowna.com) Received: (qmail 20491 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2001 18:03:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO iowna.com) (151.201.71.193) by mail.the-i-pa.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 18:03:47 -0000 Message-ID: <3B4B407D.CD189F6C@iowna.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:50:53 -0400 From: Bill Moran X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> <3B4B3798.31B4B8E1@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > Bill Moran wrote: > > Now, I've never used partition magic, but I (personally) > > find the FreeBSD partition program in sysinstall to be the > > easiest one I've ever used. What should be changed to make > > it easier? > > 1) Buy a new laptop > 2) Make the Windows partition smaller > 3) Install FreeBSD Touche ... considering the last time I installed FreeBSD on a laptop, the procedure was: 1) Boot from FreeBSD CD 2) Delete existing partition 3) Install FreeBSD OTOH: I don't see this as causing sysinstall's partition editor to be bad/worthless. How many other installers allow partition resizing (I don't know) Just add this feature (I'm not saying it would be easy, I'm saying that it doesn't require scrapping the existing system to add it, and lack of it does not invalidiate the quality/usefulness of what currently exists.) > > I disagree. I use sysinstall constantly. There's no easier > > way to install packages. > > ??? > > You suggested that people keep up to date using "cvsup"; Don't remember saying that, but I probably did ;) > but doing that won't result in new categories showing up > in "sysinstall", nor in your local packages archive being > updated to match your "cvsup" sources. You missed my point. I'm not defending sysintall in the previous paragraph. I'm defending an overall system maintenance utility that can be used for general stuff like changing network config, adding users, adding/removing software, etc. sysinstall does this now (whether badly or not). My point is only this: Do NOT assume that sysinstall is ONLY used during initial installation. It currently has the ability to help out long after the system is installed. Any utility that replaces it should be able to do the same. -Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 10:57:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail3.panix.com (mail3.panix.com [166.84.0.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D30A237B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:57:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsi@panix.com) Received: from panix1.panix.com (panix1.panix.com [166.84.0.226]) by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A145198280; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:57:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rsi@localhost) by panix1.panix.com (8.11.0/8.7.1/PanixN1.0) id f6AHvj916923; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:57:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200107101757.f6AHvj916923@panix1.panix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: panix1.panix.com: rsi set sender to rsi@panix.com using -f To: Jamie Bowden Cc: Jordan Hubbard , tlambert@primenet.com, wmoran@iowna.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: From: Rajappa Iyer Date: 10 Jul 2001 13:57:45 -0400 Reply-To: rsi@panix.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jamie Bowden writes: > On 10 Jul 2001, Rajappa Iyer wrote: > :One of the nice things I like about FreeBSD (and I daresay I'm not > :alone in this) is that when I install it, I know that I'll get a > :kernel with a corresponding full and functional userland. I see the > :packaging of this `base system' as a bunch of (meta)packages as the > :thin edge of the wedge---pretty soon FreeBSD will resemble the > :hodge-podge collection of different (often conflicting) packages that > :Linux is. > > Where as I see the ability to incrementally upgrade only the parts of the > OS that have changed from release to release as I can do right now in > Irix. Yes, I understand the argument, but fear that it's all too easy to get into the kind of package mess that all Linux dists have. It would require considerable amount of release engineering and testing to get everything right. Do you really think it's worth expending that amount of effort for an arguably minor improvement? Regards, Rajappa -- a.k.a. Rajappa Iyer. They also surf who stand in the waves. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 11: 1:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.the-i-pa.com (mail.the-i-pa.com [151.201.71.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 69F0337B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:01:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@iowna.com) Received: (qmail 20550 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2001 18:10:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO iowna.com) (151.201.71.193) by mail.the-i-pa.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 18:10:29 -0000 Message-ID: <3B4B420C.1947DABE@iowna.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:57:32 -0400 From: Bill Moran X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <200107100332.UAA13663@usr01.primenet.com> <3B4B0856.A67F02FD@iowna.com> <3B4B3866.FBFF9A65@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > If anyone is taking a vote, I disagree. I do not want any system > > ever assuming anything about my network. Even Win checks with the > > user before enabling DHCP. > > FYI: The networking bootstrap process I described above > is derived from the process used by Windows 98 and above, > as it comes configured by default on systems with integral > network cards. Personally, I don't consider win98 a reference point by which to model OS design. When you say win98 and above do you include the NT line (win2k)? With the _current_ IPv4 network, I don't see any good reason for servers to use DHCP, and FreeBSD is primarily a server OS, so why should it default to DHCP? > The "link.local" draft RFC for doing the > IPv4 stateless autoconfiguration was coauthored by a > Microsoft employee. I'm not familiar with the standards you reference above, what's the RFC#? > See the IETF "ZEROCONF" working group for more details: > this stuff is going to be part of the standards soon. Possibly. But then again, IPv6 will change a number of the rules as we know them. Which will be adopted and come into widespread use first is a matter for fortune tellers. -Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 11:18: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [63.86.88.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8505537B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:17:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 4018B755D; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:18:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D44D1D91; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:18:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:18:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Rajappa Iyer Cc: Jordan Hubbard , tlambert@primenet.com, wmoran@iowna.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <200107101757.f6AHvj916923@panix1.panix.com> Message-ID: Approved: yep X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 10 Jul 2001, Rajappa Iyer wrote: :Jamie Bowden writes: : :> On 10 Jul 2001, Rajappa Iyer wrote: : :> :One of the nice things I like about FreeBSD (and I daresay I'm not :> :alone in this) is that when I install it, I know that I'll get a :> :kernel with a corresponding full and functional userland. I see the :> :packaging of this `base system' as a bunch of (meta)packages as the :> :thin edge of the wedge---pretty soon FreeBSD will resemble the :> :hodge-podge collection of different (often conflicting) packages that :> :Linux is. :> :> Where as I see the ability to incrementally upgrade only the parts of the :> OS that have changed from release to release as I can do right now in :> Irix. : :Yes, I understand the argument, but fear that it's all too easy to get :into the kind of package mess that all Linux dists have. It would :require considerable amount of release engineering and testing to get :everything right. Do you really think it's worth expending that :amount of effort for an arguably minor improvement? I wouldn't call having that kind of improvement minor. For all inst/swmgr's warts, I can use it on a graphics or serial console with no problem. I can use it to do network installs of new machines or network upgrades on existing machines. Part of what makes it as usefull as it is is tied to the SGI Prom having network support built in, which most PC's lack (I'd say all, but someone, somewhere, would present a motherboard with onboard networking and a bios that had network support). This can be overcome with a minimal kernel (and even SGI goes this route with the miniroot). Is Irix the best Unix in the world? No, but there are some damn nice aspects to it, and it wouldn't hurt to emulate it where it shines. It will of course install from local CDROM or tape drive as well. One of Irix's shining features is its installation and package management systems, which are one and the same. You can load scripts from within it to automate with subsystems are installed (guaranteeing consistency of the machines you have to manage). Part of my default installation handles instified third party software, because I can. I could automate the process to the level of Solaris' Jumpstart if I chose, but don't have enough machines here to warrant that level of automation. And at anytime, I can remove a subsystem (like printing for example if I decide I don't need it) without manually digging through the OS directory tree and deleting bits (that something else may require that I wasn't aware of). Jamie Bowden -- "It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold" Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur" Iain Bowen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 11:25:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from torb.pix.net (sdsl-216-36-104-218.dsl.iad.megapath.net [216.36.104.218]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D488137B401; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:25:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stripes@iamsofired.com) Received: (from stripes@localhost) by torb.pix.net (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f6AIPDj16010; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:25:13 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from stripes@iamsofired.com) X-Authentication-Warning: torb.pix.net: stripes set sender to stripes@iamsofired.com using -f Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:25:13 -0400 From: Josh M Osborne To: dochawk@psu.edu Cc: tlambert2@mindspring.com, nathan@vidican.com, questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Athlon MP / AMD 760MP Chipset (Athlon SMP question) Message-ID: <20010710142513.A15929@torb.pix.net> References: <3B4B21B3.26B76804@mindspring.com> <200107101642.f6AGgCx34740@fac13.ds.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200107101642.f6AGgCx34740@fac13.ds.psu.edu>; from dochawk@psu.edu on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 12:42:12PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 12:42:12PM -0400, dochawk@psu.edu wrote: [...] > > Instead, AMD implemented the Intel APIC specification; > > I'm not sure if they did it by licensing the patent > > (Intel had a patent on the APIC design), or if it's > > just been long enough for it to come off patent > > The Athlon uses the Alpha's ev6 spec, not the intel spec. The APIC covers things like how I/O interrupts are routed. The thing AMD licensed from DEC (or Compaq) is the ev6 "bus" protocol for keeping the cache contents coherent between CPUs. That is basically invisible to even OS software (as long as it works), other then altering how long memory references take. The current Intel's have a shared bus, and all memory traffic goes over it, and some cache coherency traffic as well. The AMD's/EV6's have a memory bus PER CPU plus a coherency bus. I think the coherency bus may even be point-to-point between the CPU and coherency controller, not a all the CPUs with the coherency controller being responsible for routing messages as needed. It is clearly a more expensive, more complex system. It also allows much higher memory bandwidth (if two CPUs are looking at different chunks of the address space they get their own path to memory). If the coherency "bus" really is point-to-point the coherency controller has to have a big chunk of SRAM, but you should be able to get dramatically more CPUs to access memory quickly. That may explain why you can buy Alpha systems with 40+ CPUs, and Intel XENON boxes with no more then eight (or is it four?). It is also part of why the big Alphas are costly, but only part of it... -- Not speaking for much of anyone, maybe not even myself To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 12: 9:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from damgwp01.corp.sprint.com (parker2.sprint.com [199.14.91.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 473E937B407 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:09:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve.d.meacham@mail.sprint.com) Received: from kcmgwp02.corp.sprint.com (kcmgwp02 [10.185.6.93]) by damgwp01.corp.sprint.com (Switch-2.1.3/Switch-2.1.0) with ESMTP id f6AJMQD25016 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:22:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from kcopmp01.corp.sprint.com (kcopmp01m.corp.sprint.com [10.74.2.72]) by kcmgwp02.corp.sprint.com (Switch-2.0.2/Switch-2.0.2) with ESMTP id f6AJ9DZ16521 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:09:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by kcopmp01.corp.sprint.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_18546)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA12166 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:09:12 -0500 (CDT) From: steve.d.meacham@mail.sprint.com X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:09:11 -0500 Message-Id: Subject: ie ethernet device driver MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline ;Creation-Date="Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:09:11 -0500" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have two machines which still use the ie ethernet driver. It seems to have been disabled, but I'm not sure why. Can someone explain why it has been removed, or perhaps if it got broken, if it is feasible to put it back into -STABLE? The driver is still listed in a number of places including man, LINT, the source, etc. However, it is unusable because it has been removed from isa_compat.h so it cannot be recognized by the OS. In addition, there is an intermittent bug (PR 16214) with the driver. There is a fix for both of these problems here: http://www.jfitz.com/tips/freebsd_etherexpress16.html It modifies the following files, which are the culprits for the current lack of support for the ie driver: /usr/src/sys/dev/ie/if_ie.c and /usr/src/sys/i386/isa/isa_compat.h The fix works great and I've had no issues with the machines running it, even though I put a heavy load on both of them for network services. They shuffle mail, answer DNS queries, and provide ntp and nfs services for months without a problem. These machines and cards are old, granted. But there is a certain pride that I can take in keeping a 486DX/100 and a 386SX/16 as two of the most stable machines in a production environment. Regards, Steven To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 12:34:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp3.xs4all.nl (smtp3.xs4all.nl [194.109.127.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE6D037B401; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:34:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [213.84.32.253]) by smtp3.xs4all.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24203; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:34:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from wkb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.11.4/8.11.3) id f6AJY3S01463; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:34:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:34:02 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Josh M Osborne Cc: dochawk@psu.edu, tlambert2@mindspring.com, nathan@vidican.com, questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Athlon MP / AMD 760MP Chipset (Athlon SMP question) Message-ID: <20010710213402.D1389@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <3B4B21B3.26B76804@mindspring.com> <200107101642.f6AGgCx34740@fac13.ds.psu.edu> <20010710142513.A15929@torb.pix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010710142513.A15929@torb.pix.net>; from stripes@iamsofired.com on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 02:25:13PM -0400 X-OS: FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 02:25:13PM -0400, Josh M Osborne wrote: > On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 12:42:12PM -0400, dochawk@psu.edu wrote: > [...] > > > Instead, AMD implemented the Intel APIC specification; > > > I'm not sure if they did it by licensing the patent > > > (Intel had a patent on the APIC design), or if it's > > > just been long enough for it to come off patent > > > > The Athlon uses the Alpha's ev6 spec, not the intel spec. > That may explain why you can buy Alpha systems with 40+ CPUs, and 32 max, on Wildfire. > Intel XENON boxes with no more then eight (or is it four?). It is Eight, eg on a Compaq Proliant 8000. Or 32 for the Unisys (IIRC) CMP machines. -- | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands email: wilko@FreeBSD.org |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte "Youth is not a time in life, it is a state of mind" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 12:42:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC88B37B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:42:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Bsdguru@aol.com) Received: from Bsdguru@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id n.fb.16813a83 (4410) for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:42:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Bsdguru@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:42:33 EDT Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral To: hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In a message dated 07/10/2001 12:52:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jkh@osd.bsdi.com writes: > BSDi had no effect on ftp.freebsd.org's services and kept things > completely unchanged there which pretty much confirms my "no impact" statement in that area. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 12:45:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A863437B406; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:44:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lplist@closedsrc.org) Received: by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1003) id 9CA1655407; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D0D951610; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:29:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Linh Pham To: Josh M Osborne Cc: , , , , Subject: Re: Athlon MP / AMD 760MP Chipset (Athlon SMP question) In-Reply-To: <20010710142513.A15929@torb.pix.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2001-07-10, Josh M Osborne scribbled: # The current Intel's have a shared bus, and all memory traffic goes # over it, and some cache coherency traffic as well. The official names of Intel's bus include: GTL, GTL+, AGTL and AGTL+. The new iTanic (aka Itanium) processor uses the AGTL+ protocol whereas the Pentium II/III use the GTL protocol. The Pentium 4 uses the GTL+ which allows for the quad-pumped 100Mhz FSB. I could have mixed up which processor uses which... but you get the idea :) # The AMD's/EV6's have a memory bus PER CPU plus a coherency bus. # I think the coherency bus may even be point-to-point between the # CPU and coherency controller, not a all the CPUs with the coherency # controller being responsible for routing messages as needed. If I read the specs correctly on the EV6 protocol... each CPU has a separate connection to the 'northbridge' chip. It's up to the northbridge to provide connectivity to the memory. # It is clearly a more expensive, more complex system. It also allows # much higher memory bandwidth (if two CPUs are looking at different # chunks of the address space they get their own path to memory). If # the coherency "bus" really is point-to-point the coherency controller # has to have a big chunk of SRAM, but you should be able to get # dramatically more CPUs to access memory quickly. The biggest problem is the number of traces required... which is more than double of that found in a single-processor configuration. Also, there is a memory bandwidth bottleneck if you have both processors hitting memory... there isn't a lot of bandwidth left open for other devices ;-) # That may explain why you can buy Alpha systems with 40+ CPUs, and # Intel XENON boxes with no more then eight (or is it four?). It is # also part of why the big Alphas are costly, but only part of it... 32-way machines are built differently than your 2-way or 4-way servers. Some use cellular multi-processing, some use NUMA, and many other techologies and concepts to allow massive number of processors within a single server. You can build a 32-way Xeon machine (Unisys has... NUMA-Q... which used to be Sequent, I believe has a 32-way configuration available) but they are very, very expensive... mostly when each 'pod' or 'cell' requires 2+ Meg of coherency cache... plus the numerous amounts of memory channels. -- Linh Pham [lplist@closedsrc.org] // 404b - Brain not found To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 12:54:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mcs.anl.gov (cliff.mcs.anl.gov [140.221.9.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 580C037B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:54:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lekostaj@mcs.anl.gov) Received: from fluffhead.mcs.anl.gov (fluffhead.mcs.anl.gov [140.221.10.70]) by mcs.anl.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA55964 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:54:41 -0500 Received: (from lekostaj@localhost) by fluffhead.mcs.anl.gov (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f6AJsfE29803; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:54:41 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fluffhead.mcs.anl.gov: lekostaj set sender to lekostaj@fluffhead.mcs.anl.gov using -f To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: TCP Window Size From: Joseph Lekostaj Date: 10 Jul 2001 14:54:41 -0500 Message-ID: Lines: 22 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090003 (Oort Gnus v0.03) XEmacs/21.1 (Channel Islands) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been trying to up my TCP window size from the default 16K and it's caused nothing but problems. From the info I've found so far, these are the sysctl i've changed: kern.ipc.maxsockbuffer=2097152 net.inet.tcp.rfc1323=1 net.inet.tcp.sendspace=524288 net.inet.tcp.recvspace=524288 But if I do that, on boot I get all sorts of error messages about buffer space. i.e.: Jul 9 11:53:20 ccn64 portmap[180]: cannot create tcp socket: No buffer space available Jul 9 11:53:21 ccn64 inetd[199]: shell/tcp: socket: No buffer space available Jul 9 11:53:21 ccn64 inetd[199]: login/tcp: socket: No buffer space available Jul 9 11:58:55 ccn64 RPC::PlClient[243]: Cannot connect: No buffer space available Jul 9 11:58:55 ccn64 RPC::PlClient[246]: Cannot connect: No buffer space available Is there anything I'm missing? -- Joe LeKostaj ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just don't create a file called -rf. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 13: 7:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAE6E37B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:07:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6AK6vq87486; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:06:57 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:06:54 -0400 To: Bill Moran , Wes Peters From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 9:49 AM -0400 7/10/01, Bill Moran wrote: >Wes Peters wrote: > > > Oh, come now. FreeBSD's disk partitioning has always sucked. > > It does suck somewhat less than many Linux linstallers, and a > > lot less than the OpenBSD installer, actually, there are a few things about the openbsd partitioning setup which I kinda like... :-) > > but it still shoves way too many details and options at the > > average user. Something akin to PartitionMagic would be an > > ideal way to go, given unlimited resources to throw against > > this particular problem. > >Now, I've never used partition magic, but I (personally) find the >FreeBSD partition program in sysinstall to be the easiest one I've >ever used. What should be changed to make it easier? The main problem I have seen with this discussion is that the current partitioning program works well for you (Bill). Every time anyone suggests something, you reply that it seems frivolous to you, or that there is no other installer that you personally have used which does a better job. We're not trying to suggest things to make partitioning easier for YOU, we're suggesting things which would make it nicer/easier/friendlier for US, or people that we deal with. Pretty much every time I have used the disk-partitioning software for freebsd I have hated it. The *reason* I hate it changes from run-to-run, but I've never been particularly happy with it. It is clear that you've had better luck with it than I have. I think I'll just leave it at that, instead of trying to interest you in making some changes to it. I do not mean this as a sarcastic jab, I am just making the observation that the current setup seems to work well for you, and thus you're not going to be as interested in changing it as we might have hoped. I do wish I could find someone who was interested in making changes to it, though. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 13: 9:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66CA237B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:09:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6AK9bq26794; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:09:37 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:09:35 -0400 To: Bsdguru@aol.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 3:42 PM -0400 7/10/01, Bsdguru@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 07/10/2001 12:52:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >jkh@osd.bsdi.com writes: > >> BSDi had no effect on ftp.freebsd.org's services and kept things >> completely unchanged there > >which pretty much confirms my "no impact" statement in that area. I must admit, I am also pretty close to filtering out everything from your userid, as your comments are just a waste of time. That's pretty amazing, considering that most of this thread is a waste of time, and yet you're the only one who really strikes me as being worth a filter. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 13:15:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from euphoria.confusion.net (dementia.confusion.net [205.166.119.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3032D37B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:15:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuyman@euphoria.confusion.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by euphoria.confusion.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f6AKFCZ28858; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:15:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Laurence Berland To: Wes Peters Cc: Rasputin , Jamie Bowden , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <3B4B1BB2.57ED1B00@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Wes Peters wrote: > Laurence Berland wrote: > > > > On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Rasputin wrote: > > > > > I may be low on caffeine, but I don't see how breaking up the base system > > > into packages makes it any easier to upgrade than using cvsup? > > > > I think the discussion is Re: binary upgrades, like putting in the CD and > > hitting that upgrade option, which right now doesn't quite get you there > > afaik. > > I don't think the goal was to make the system easier to upgrade, but rather > easier to subset. Do we really NEED to have sendmail on every DNS server > we put together? Also very true. But in the context of upgrades, which is what Rasputin was coming from, it's a binary upgrade issue, not a source one, which is why cvsup isn't a fair comparison. I definitely think it'd be nice to have things like sendmail somewhat more separate. > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 13:33: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6876F37B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:32:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6AKWpq78904; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:32:51 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20010707203138B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> References: <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010707203138B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:32:48 -0400 To: Jordan Hubbard , rh@matriplex.com From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: The Foundation [was Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral] Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:30 AM -0700 7/7/01, Richard Hodges wrote: >Could I just ask exactly what the FreeBSD Foundation _is_? > >I read the announcement and bylaws, and it looks like it is supposed >to be the offical organization representing FreeBSD. On the other >hand, many people have suggested that there is no connection between >Core and the Foundation. It is a foundation which will fund some projects intended to benefit FreeBSD, and "the public good". People can send contributions to the foundation and get a tax write-off. For the most part, there could be a hundred different foundations, each contributing to freebsd in their own way, and any given FreeBSD user could contribute to the foundations that they "trust" the most, or which is funding the kinds of projects which that user is particularly interested in. The United Way collects money, and gives some of that to a local hospital. That does not mean the hospital IS the united way, or that the united way IS the hospital. They are separate entities. >Although I infer tacit consent, I have not heard any official >blessing of the Foundation, either. But there is more than a >hint of transfering the FreeBSD trademark to the Foundation. I'll admit that this trademark issue is the one very odd thing about the foundation. I like the idea of the foundation, and for the record I have already sent a small contribution to them. If good things come of that, I'll send more. Still, I am a bit uneasy about the trademark being turned over to them. Not that I worry about the individuals, but I wonder about the foundation itself. Let's say the trademark is moved, and then the foundation folds. What happens to the trademark then? What happens if the foundation gets the trademark, and then they DO have to legally defend it from someone who's just out to make trouble? Could such an action cause the demise of the foundation? On the other hand, I have no better course of action to suggest wrt the trademark. It's just that this is the one "odd thing" about the FreeBSD Foundation, at least in my mind. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 13:34:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.the-i-pa.com (mail.the-i-pa.com [151.201.71.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C268C37B405 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:34:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@iowna.com) Received: (qmail 21360 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2001 20:43:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO iowna.com) (151.201.71.193) by mail.the-i-pa.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 20:43:32 -0000 Message-ID: <3B4B65ED.452CDD5E@iowna.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:30:37 -0400 From: Bill Moran X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG *sigh* this has gotten way off track somehow. Looking back, I'm probably primarily to blame. The fact is: *I* *AM* interested in replacing or helping out with an effort to replace/improve sysinstall. However, there are two critical things I must understand if I am to do anything truely productive along this line: 1. Should sysinstall be fixed or replaced. 2. What needs done to fix or improve sysinstall. Now, I've gotten several excellent suggestions with regard to #2. If any of my replies to these seem like arguments, then that's just a part of my inability to communicate, as what I'm trying to do is *understand* what exactly needs done. If I only change what *I* want, it might not be terribly useful overall (as can be seen by my divergence from other's opinions) You make an excellent point of this in your second paragraph below. What I was really interested in getting answered was #1, as it was suggested by Terry Lambert that "sysinstall must go" (don't remember his exact words) I have no desire to start repairing something if a complete replacement is in order. The fact of the matter is that I don't understand the problem enough to fix it. It may seem strange to people that I'm more interested in understanding this problem than in fixing problems that I already understand. Well, I always have been a little strange ... Personally, I would appreciate it if folks would *not* back off from this conversation, since I'm acutally beginning to understand, thanks to the tireless efforts of many who already understand. -Bill Garance A Drosihn wrote: > The main problem I have seen with this discussion is that the > current partitioning program works well for you (Bill). Every > time anyone suggests something, you reply that it seems frivolous > to you, or that there is no other installer that you personally > have used which does a better job. We're not trying to suggest > things to make partitioning easier for YOU, we're suggesting > things which would make it nicer/easier/friendlier for US, or > people that we deal with. > > Pretty much every time I have used the disk-partitioning software > for freebsd I have hated it. The *reason* I hate it changes from > run-to-run, but I've never been particularly happy with it. It > is clear that you've had better luck with it than I have. I think > I'll just leave it at that, instead of trying to interest you in > making some changes to it. I do not mean this as a sarcastic jab, > I am just making the observation that the current setup seems to > work well for you, and thus you're not going to be as interested > in changing it as we might have hoped. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 14: 7:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.freebsd.org (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8678E37B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:07:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.freebsd.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f6AL6ot19020; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:06:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: drosih@rpi.edu Cc: wmoran@iowna.com, wes@softweyr.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: References: <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010710140650S.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:06:50 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 10 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:06:54 -0400 > I do wish I could find someone who was interested in making changes > to it, though. Why can't we just nominate you and be done with it? :) - jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 14:13:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [206.40.252.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 172B137B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:13:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6ALD6f97962; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:13:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:13:05 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Carlo Dapor Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Inconsistency with wchar_t / wint_t in current Message-ID: <20010710141305.A97675@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.org References: <20010710154027.6D8E6275B7@naboo.ethz.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010710154027.6D8E6275B7@naboo.ethz.ch>; from carlo@vis.ethz.ch on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 05:40:27PM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 05:40:27PM +0200, Carlo Dapor wrote: > I stumbled over an inconsistency with the data types wchar_t and wint_t. > My machine is a FreeBSD-5.0 current as of July 8th, 2001. I thought these were fixed. I'll look into it. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 14:22:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ipsnetwork.net (mail.ipsnetwork.net [209.202.83.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F077E37B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:22:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nathan@vidican.com) Received: from 78lb019 (gw6.ipsnetwork.net [209.202.83.120]) by mail.ipsnetwork.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f6ALUIT00386; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:30:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from nathan@vidican.com) Message-ID: <000601c10985$930938c0$6700000a@78lb019> From: "Nathan Vidican" To: "Wilko Bulte" Cc: References: <3B4B21B3.26B76804@mindspring.com> <200107101642.f6AGgCx34740@fac13.ds.psu.edu> <20010710142513.A15929@torb.pix.net> <20010710213402.D1389@freebie.xs4all.nl> Subject: Re: Athlon MP / AMD 760MP Chipset (Athlon SMP question) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:16:22 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eclipse manufacturs 32-way xeon boxes too. http://www.eclipse.com/, recently bought out by Data General, (http://www.dg.com/, used to be the manufacturers of the Aviion/Eclipse mainframe machines... and their proprietory O/S 'unicos'. They still sell/manufacture the numa based 32-way xeon boxes, though they've stopped supporting the legacy mainframes. Nathan Vidican Nathan@Vidican.com http://Nathan.Vidican.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wilko Bulte" To: "Josh M Osborne" Cc: ; ; ; ; Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 3:34 PM Subject: Re: Athlon MP / AMD 760MP Chipset (Athlon SMP question) > On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 02:25:13PM -0400, Josh M Osborne wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 12:42:12PM -0400, dochawk@psu.edu wrote: > > [...] > > > > Instead, AMD implemented the Intel APIC specification; > > > > I'm not sure if they did it by licensing the patent > > > > (Intel had a patent on the APIC design), or if it's > > > > just been long enough for it to come off patent > > > > > > The Athlon uses the Alpha's ev6 spec, not the intel spec. > > > That may explain why you can buy Alpha systems with 40+ CPUs, and > > 32 max, on Wildfire. > > > Intel XENON boxes with no more then eight (or is it four?). It is > > Eight, eg on a Compaq Proliant 8000. Or 32 for the Unisys (IIRC) CMP > machines. > > -- > | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands email: wilko@FreeBSD.org > |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte "Youth is not a time in life, it is a state of mind" > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 14:22:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp-out.hamburg.pop.de (smtp-out.hamburg.pop.de [195.222.210.86]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34D3E37B406 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:22:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ) Received: from mail.hamburg.pop.de ([193.98.9.7] helo=mail.provi.de) by smtp-out.hamburg.pop.de with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15K4yd-0001Sk-00 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:23:27 +0200 Received: from daemon by mail.provi.de with local (Exim 3.20 #2) id 15K4xo-0000mT-00 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:22:36 +0200 From: To: Subject: mail failed, returning to sender X-No-Resend: True Message-Id: Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:22:36 +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG |------------------------- Message log follows: -----------------------| | no valid recipients were found for this message | |----------------------------------------------------------------------| | t.schmeissel@mail.hh.provi.de - unknown user |----------------------------------------------------------------------| German translation: Sie haben Ihre eMail an die Adresse "t.schmeissel@mail.hh.provi.de" gerichtet. Der hintere Teil der Adresse ("Domain"), "@mail.hh.provi.de", ist gueltig, der Benutzernamen jedoch nicht. Ueberpruefen Sie bitte insbesondere diesen Teil der eMail-Adresse! Sie erhalten im Anhang die ersten zehn Zeilen Ihrer Original-eMail zurueck. Mit freundlichen Gruessen, Point of Presence GmbH, Hamburg ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers-digest@freebsd.org Tue Jul 10 23:22:35 2001 Return-path: Envelope-to: t.schmeissel@mail.hh.provi.de Delivery-date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:22:35 +0200 Received: from mx2.freebsd.org ([216.136.204.119]) by mail.provi.de with smtp (Exim 3.20 #2) id 15K4xm-0000mE-00 for t.schmeissel@mail.hh.provi.de; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:22:34 +0200 Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FF5255DFF; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:22:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers-digest@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 538) id 0F14E37B408; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:22:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E28E92E81CA; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:22:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers-digest) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:22:21 -0700 From: owner-freebsd-hackers-digest@FreeBSD.ORG (freebsd-hackers-digest) To: freebsd-hackers-digest@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: freebsd-hackers-digest V5 #175 Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers-digest@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:22:22 -0700 (PDT) freebsd-hackers-digest Tuesday, July 10 2001 Volume 05 : Number 175 In this issue: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral wx0 jumbo frame support explosions.. Re: wx0 jumbo frame support explosions.. Re: best way to migrate to a new disk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 14:26:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jever.heim2.tu-clausthal.de (jever.heim2.tu-clausthal.de [139.174.240.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E738537B405 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:26:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from uwe@jever.heim2.tu-clausthal.de) Received: (from uwe@localhost) by jever.heim2.tu-clausthal.de (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f6ALQDV12090 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:26:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from uwe) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:26:12 +0200 From: Uwe Pierau To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010710232612.A12026@heim2.tu-clausthal.de> Reply-To: Uwe Pierau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD jever.heim2.tu-clausthal.de 4.3-STABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Moran wrote in list.freebsd-hackers: # [...] # 1. Should sysinstall be fixed or replaced. Read the fine manual. ;) sysinstall(8): >BUGS > This utility is a prototype which lasted several years past its expira­ > tion date and is greatly in need of death. # 2. What needs done to fix or improve sysinstall. See 1. And if you didn't already know Jordans "Installation and package tools document, version 1.0" you should read it also: http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=77877+0+archive/2000/freebsd-hackers/20000917.freebsd-hackers HTH, Uwe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 14:28:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 241C937B406 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:28:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6ALSVq55574; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:28:31 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3B4B65ED.452CDD5E@iowna.com> References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> <3B4B65ED.452CDD5E@iowna.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:28:26 -0400 To: Bill Moran From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Suggestions for sysinstall / disklabel Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG coming from thread "Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral"... At 4:30 PM -0400 7/10/01, Bill Moran wrote: >*sigh* this has gotten way off track somehow. Looking back, I'm >probably primarily to blame. > >The fact is: *I* *AM* interested in replacing or helping out with >an effort to replace/improve sysinstall. However, there are two >critical things I must understand if I am to do anything truely >productive along this line: > >1. Should sysinstall be fixed or replaced. >2. What needs done to fix or improve sysinstall. > >Now, I've gotten several excellent suggestions with regard to #2. >If any of my replies to these seem like arguments, then that's >just a part of my inability to communicate, as what I'm trying to >do is *understand* what exactly needs done. If I only change what >*I* want, it might not be terribly useful overall (as can be seen >by my divergence from other's opinions) You make an excellent point >of this in your second paragraph below. > >What I was really interested in getting answered was #1, as it >was suggested by Terry Lambert that "sysinstall must go" (don't >remember his exact words) I have no desire to start repairing >something if a complete replacement is in order. > >The fact of the matter is that I don't understand the problem >enough to fix it. It may seem strange to people that I'm more >interested in understanding this problem than in fixing problems >that I already understand. Well, I always have been a little >strange ... > >Personally, I would appreciate it if folks would *not* back >off from this conversation, since I'm actually beginning to >understand, thanks to the tireless efforts of many who already >understand. I am inclined to say "replace sysinstall", just because it has so many quirks in it's user-interface which have annoyed me. On the other hand, I do want something a lot like sysinstall, and maybe if enough of the little things got fixed up then I might not be so eager to have it completely replaced. Part of the install process is the disk-partitioning step, which is more of an issue with fdisk and disklabel than sysinstall. Every time I go to use those I end up hitting something I don't particularly like, although the specifics of what I dislike are different each time. Eventually I get it to do exactly what I want it to do, at which point I try to put the whole experience out of my mind... :-) The one (silly, trivial) thing that I *like* about Openbsd's disk-partitioning setup is that I say "I want about 50 meg for this partition", and it automatically rounds up to the nearest "even boundary". It figures out the next-largest number of sectors such that no disk space is wasted. Yes, I realize it's a 20-gig disk now, but it still annoys me when I see "800 sectors unusable" for each partition I create. I like the recent change so the partition-size can be displayed in sectors vs Kilobytes vs Megabytes (we may soon have to add Gigabytes to that!). It would also be nice to have percentage as display option there. I create several different partitions, and inevitably I get to the end and realize some partition is too large or too small. What I'd like to do at that point is say "just take partition , and increase it by 20 meg", and have it move all the partitions after it to match that. Instead, I end up having to delete all the partitions down to the one I want to change, and then recreate them all. I very much like the recent change so you can turn on the softupdates flag for a partition when you are creating it. However, there is some kind of column-counting mistake there, such that if you are creating more than one columns-worth of partitions, then turning on the softupdates flag for a partition in the second column writes past column 80 on the screen (which is to say, it writes on the first character of the following row). I know there are other things which have annoyed me when I've gone to use the disk editor, but I'm afraid I have not written them down anywhere, and those are the only things that I remember off the top of my head. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 14:29:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [206.40.252.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75FD637B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:29:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6ALTGT98153; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:29:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:29:16 -0700 From: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG To: Bill Moran Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010710142916.B97675@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com>; from wmoran@iowna.com on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 09:49:18AM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 09:49:18AM -0400, Bill Moran wrote: > Now, I've never used partition magic, but I (personally) find the > FreeBSD > partition program in sysinstall to be the easiest one I've ever used. > What should be changed to make it easier? Maybe not "easier" but better: + Allow one to specify the partition letter, than assumeing `e'. + Allow one to specify the ordering of partitions that will be written. Alpha users keep getting bit in the ass because sysinstall orders the swap partition at the begining of the disk vs. after /. One cannot tell which order the partitions will be written to disk. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 14:30:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32B0F37B408 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:30:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6ALUZq27000; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:30:35 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20010710140650S.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> References: <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> <20010710140650S.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:30:33 -0400 To: Jordan Hubbard From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 2:06 PM -0700 7/10/01, Jordan Hubbard wrote: >From: Garance A Drosihn >Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral >Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:06:54 -0400 > > > I do wish I could find someone who was interested in making > > changes to it, though. > >Why can't we just nominate you and be done with it? :) I'm still slogging my way thru lpr/lpd code, and I dare say there's enough crappy code in there to keep me occupied for quite some time... -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 14:34:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3918737B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:34:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from wes by softweyr.com with local (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15K5EQ-000Fr6-00; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:39:46 -0600 Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral To: stuyman@confusion.net (Laurence Berland) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:39:46 -0600 (MDT) Cc: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters), rara.rasputin@virgin.net (Rasputin), ragnar@sysabend.org (Jamie Bowden), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Laurence Berland" at Jul 10, 2001 01:15:11 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: Wes Peters Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Laurence Berland wrote: > > On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Wes Peters wrote: > > > Laurence Berland wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Rasputin wrote: > > > > > > > I may be low on caffeine, but I don't see how breaking up the base system > > > > into packages makes it any easier to upgrade than using cvsup? > > > > > > I think the discussion is Re: binary upgrades, like putting in the CD and > > > hitting that upgrade option, which right now doesn't quite get you there > > > afaik. > > > > I don't think the goal was to make the system easier to upgrade, but rather > > easier to subset. Do we really NEED to have sendmail on every DNS server > > we put together? > > Also very true. But in the context of upgrades, which is what Rasputin > was coming from, it's a binary upgrade issue, not a source one, which is > why cvsup isn't a fair comparison. I definitely think it'd be nice to > have things like sendmail somewhat more separate. Right, but updates were NOT the driving REASON for removing chunks of FreeBSD to ports. Of course this change will have ramifications for updates. The primary change, from my viewpoint, is that I don't have to wait to update sendmail on my DNS servers, because sendmail won't be part of the default system anymore. Yippee! -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 14:45:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [194.221.183.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 31E4137B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:45:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tmoestl@gmx.net) Received: (qmail 20221 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jul 2001 21:45:47 -0000 Received: from pd900c789.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO forge.local) (217.0.199.137) by mail.gmx.net (mp008-rz3) with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 21:45:47 -0000 Received: from tmm by forge.local with local (Exim 3.30 #1) id 15K5KD-0002PL-00; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:45:45 +0200 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:45:45 +0200 From: Thomas Moestl To: Paul Halliday Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Can someone verify this? Message-ID: <20010710234545.A8799@crow.dom2ip.de> Mail-Followup-To: Thomas Moestl , Paul Halliday , hackers@freebsd.org References: <3B4793CB.FDC5B64@penix.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B4793CB.FDC5B64@penix.org>; from dp@penix.org on Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 06:57:15PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Sat, 2001/07/07 at 18:57:15 -0400, Paul Halliday wrote: > FreeBSD dissent.p450.box 4.3-RC FreeBSD 4.3-RC #3: Sun Jun 10 22:27:47 > EDT 2001 root@dissent.p450.box:/usr/src/sys/compile/workstation > i386 > > FreeBSD useless.dell.box 4.3-STABLE FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE #6: Fri Jul 6 > 18:57:08 EDT 2001 > root@useless.dell.box:/usr/src/sys/compile/useless i386 > > mount /dev/acd0c /cdrom > should obviously fail, yet causes... > > panic: vm -fault on nofault entry, addr: c3e1e000 > > ....reboot. > any ideas? If it was an audio CD you were trying to mount: this is a known problem. The attached patch fixes it for me by disallowing reading of partial blocks; this could also be fixed by setting the buffer size different from the transfer size in such a case. - thomas --7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="acd-stable.diff" Index: dev/ata/atapi-cd.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/dev/ata/atapi-cd.c,v retrieving revision 1.48.2.10 diff -u -r1.48.2.10 atapi-cd.c --- dev/ata/atapi-cd.c 2001/02/25 21:35:20 1.48.2.10 +++ dev/ata/atapi-cd.c 2001/07/09 21:48:58 @@ -1126,9 +1126,7 @@ /* reject all queued entries if media changed */ if (cdp->atp->flags & ATAPI_F_MEDIA_CHANGED) { bp->b_error = EIO; - bp->b_flags |= B_ERROR; - biodone(bp); - return; + goto failure; } bzero(ccb, sizeof(ccb)); @@ -1149,7 +1147,11 @@ lastlba = cdp->info.volsize; } - count = (bp->b_bcount + (blocksize - 1)) / blocksize; + if (bp->b_bcount % blocksize != 0) { + bp->b_error = EINVAL; + goto failure; + } + count = bp->b_bcount / blocksize; if (bp->b_flags & B_READ) { /* if transfer goes beyond range adjust it to be within limits */ @@ -1191,6 +1193,11 @@ atapi_queue_cmd(cdp->atp, ccb, bp->b_data, count * blocksize, bp->b_flags & B_READ ? ATPR_F_READ : 0, 30, acd_done,bp); + return; + +failure: + bp->b_flags |= B_ERROR; + biodone(bp); } static int --7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 14:47:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D8D037B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:47:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6ALlSq05226; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:47:28 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> <3B4B65ED.452CDD5E@iowna.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:47:26 -0400 To: Bill Moran From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Suggestions for sysinstall / disklabel Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 2:29 PM -0700 7/10/01, David O'Brien wrote: >On Tue, Jul 10, 2001, Bill Moran wrote: > > Now, I've never used partition magic, but I (personally) find > > the FreeBSD partition program in sysinstall to be the easiest > > one I've ever used. > > What should be changed to make it easier? > >Maybe not "easier" but better: > >+ Allow one to specify the partition letter, than assumeing `e'. >+ Allow one to specify the ordering of partitions that will be written. > Alpha users keep getting bit in the ass because sysinstall orders the > swap partition at the begining of the disk vs. after /. One cannot > tell which order the partitions will be written to disk. Hmm. Is it a different program on Alpha than i386? On i386, the order on the disk seems to always be the order they were created in disklabel (which might or might not match the order of the partition letters...). On i386, I know know the program seems to want to futz with the partition letters based on the name you give to the partition, which is sometimes annoying. Ie, it "wants" the root partition to be partition 'a', and swap to be partition 'b', but there are times when that's not what *I* want (for one reason or another). I sometimes create partitions with the wrong name (such as '/') so I can get the partition letter I want, and then rename the partition after it has assigned the letter. It may just be the weird way I operate, in that I create multiple 'fdisk partitions' which will hold freebsd "slices" (so I can boot between freebsd-stable and freebsd-current). Or I'll use sysinstall to repartition one disk while up-and-running on a different disk. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 15: 0:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [216.33.66.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0593837B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:00:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1098) id 0CCC581D06; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:00:51 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:00:50 -0500 From: Bill Fumerola To: Joseph Lekostaj Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TCP Window Size Message-ID: <20010710170050.F47870@elvis.mu.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from lekostaj@mcs.anl.gov on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 02:54:41PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.3-FEARSOME-20010617 i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 02:54:41PM -0500, Joseph Lekostaj wrote: > > I've been trying to up my TCP window size from the default 16K and it's caused nothing but problems. From the info I've found so far, these are the sysctl i've changed: > > kern.ipc.maxsockbuffer=2097152 > net.inet.tcp.rfc1323=1 > net.inet.tcp.sendspace=524288 > net.inet.tcp.recvspace=524288 Good christ thats a lot of memory per socket. kern.ipc.maxsockets is also fairly important to know here too. Nothing is going to prevent the above values from getting out of hand, short of a huge amount of memory dedicated to sockets.. see below... > But if I do that, on boot I get all sorts of error messages about buffer space. i.e.: > > Jul 9 11:53:20 ccn64 portmap[180]: cannot create tcp socket: No buffer space available > Jul 9 11:53:21 ccn64 inetd[199]: shell/tcp: socket: No buffer space available > Jul 9 11:53:21 ccn64 inetd[199]: login/tcp: socket: No buffer space available > Jul 9 11:58:55 ccn64 RPC::PlClient[243]: Cannot connect: No buffer space available > Jul 9 11:58:55 ccn64 RPC::PlClient[246]: Cannot connect: No buffer space available > > Is there anything I'm missing? The memory to support blowing 524k of memory per socket? As I recall this memory is eaten as the sockets are created. If you really think you need that much memory (you don't), you're going to need to increase your socket memory to a lot more then 2097152.... I'd personally suggest just tuning net.inet.tcp.*space to 64k at most. -- Bill Fumerola - security yahoo / Yahoo! inc. - fumerola@yahoo-inc.com / billf@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 15: 9: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [216.33.66.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A80037B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:09:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1098) id 2F72E81D05; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:09:07 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:09:07 -0500 From: Bill Fumerola To: billf@mu.org Cc: Joseph Lekostaj , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TCP Window Size Message-ID: <20010710170907.G47870@elvis.mu.org> References: <20010710170050.F47870@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010710170050.F47870@elvis.mu.org>; from billf@mu.org on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 05:00:50PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.3-FEARSOME-20010617 i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 05:00:50PM -0500, Bill Fumerola wrote: > Good christ thats a lot of memory per socket. kern.ipc.maxsockets is > also fairly important to know here too. Nothing is going to prevent > the above values from getting out of hand, short of a huge amount of > memory dedicated to sockets.. see below... ignore this, I was mistaken at what time the memory gets allocated -- Bill Fumerola - security yahoo / Yahoo! inc. - fumerola@yahoo-inc.com / billf@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 15:14:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.salesforce.com (nat-63-150-46-70.salesforce.com [63.150.46.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B1A537B405 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:14:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ggong@cal.alumni.berkeley.edu) Received: from ggongws (ggong-ws.internal.salesforce.com [10.0.15.25]) by mx1.salesforce.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f6AMCqR78411; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:12:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ggong@cal.alumni.berkeley.edu) Message-ID: <00d001c1098d$79b183c0$190f000a@ggongws> From: "Gilbert Gong" To: "Bill Moran" , "Garance A Drosihn" Cc: "Wes Peters" , References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> <3B4B65ED.452CDD5E@iowna.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:12:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm also interested in helping out with the installer. I have also just read Jordan's message (at http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=77877+0+archive/2000/freebsd-ha ckers/20000917.freebsd-hackers as referenced in another email) and here is how I see it. #2 cannot happen without #1 happening first. Jordan outlines a number of underlying problems which simply writing a new installer, in terms of just a new frontend to what sysinstall currently does, cannot solve. Many of the underlying structures and mechanisms for distribution and packaging must be modified to resolve those problems. These problems are generally the same as the ones other people are bringing up, or are needed changes before other types of changes can be made (though some, such as adding "partition magic" style partition sizing could be added without these underlying changes). I think, from a "will be accepted by the community" perspective, what has to happen is the old installer must evolve, little by little, into something which is more modular and can be easily replaced or interfaced into by other alternate installers. As it becomes more modular, it will be easier to change some of the underlying mechanisms. As other people have said, the installer is the first exposure of new people to FreeBSD. That means it is really important, and therefore a lot of us will care about what happens to it. Major overhauls are not going to go over easily (think bikeshed, only instead of what color to paint the bikeshed, we are discussing what color to paint the large centerpiece at the entrance to the world headquarters). Gilbert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Moran" To: "Garance A Drosihn" Cc: "Wes Peters" ; Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 1:30 PM Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral > *sigh* this has gotten way off track somehow. Looking back, I'm > probably primarily to blame. > > The fact is: *I* *AM* interested in replacing or helping out with > an effort to replace/improve sysinstall. However, there are two > critical things I must understand if I am to do anything truely > productive along this line: > > 1. Should sysinstall be fixed or replaced. > 2. What needs done to fix or improve sysinstall. > > Now, I've gotten several excellent suggestions with regard to #2. > If any of my replies to these seem like arguments, then that's > just a part of my inability to communicate, as what I'm trying to > do is *understand* what exactly needs done. If I only change what > *I* want, it might not be terribly useful overall (as can be seen > by my divergence from other's opinions) You make an excellent point > of this in your second paragraph below. > > What I was really interested in getting answered was #1, as it > was suggested by Terry Lambert that "sysinstall must go" (don't > remember his exact words) I have no desire to start repairing > something if a complete replacement is in order. > > The fact of the matter is that I don't understand the problem > enough to fix it. It may seem strange to people that I'm more > interested in understanding this problem than in fixing problems > that I already understand. Well, I always have been a little > strange ... > > Personally, I would appreciate it if folks would *not* back > off from this conversation, since I'm acutally beginning to > understand, thanks to the tireless efforts of many who already > understand. > > -Bill > > Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > The main problem I have seen with this discussion is that the > > current partitioning program works well for you (Bill). Every > > time anyone suggests something, you reply that it seems frivolous > > to you, or that there is no other installer that you personally > > have used which does a better job. We're not trying to suggest > > things to make partitioning easier for YOU, we're suggesting > > things which would make it nicer/easier/friendlier for US, or > > people that we deal with. > > > > Pretty much every time I have used the disk-partitioning software > > for freebsd I have hated it. The *reason* I hate it changes from > > run-to-run, but I've never been particularly happy with it. It > > is clear that you've had better luck with it than I have. I think > > I'll just leave it at that, instead of trying to interest you in > > making some changes to it. I do not mean this as a sarcastic jab, > > I am just making the observation that the current setup seems to > > work well for you, and thus you're not going to be as interested > > in changing it as we might have hoped. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 15:15:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.freebsd.org (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02ACB37B405 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:15:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.freebsd.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f6AMFMt19294; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:15:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: drosih@rpi.edu Cc: wmoran@iowna.com, wes@softweyr.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggestions for sysinstall / disklabel In-Reply-To: References: <3B4B65ED.452CDD5E@iowna.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010710151522N.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:15:22 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 13 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Suggestions for sysinstall / disklabel Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:28:26 -0400 > However, there is some kind of column-counting mistake there, > such that if you are creating more than one columns-worth of > partitions, then turning on the softupdates flag for a partition > in the second column writes past column 80 on the screen (which > is to say, it writes on the first character of the following row). This was fixed post-4.3. - jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 15:20:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from revolt.poohsticks.org (revolt.poohsticks.org [63.227.60.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5977337B406 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:20:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drew@revolt.poohsticks.org) Received: from revolt.poohsticks.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revolt.poohsticks.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6AMKCT58220; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:20:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drew@revolt.poohsticks.org) Message-Id: <200107102220.f6AMKCT58220@revolt.poohsticks.org> To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Joseph Lekostaj , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TCP Window Size In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:00:50 CDT." <20010710170050.F47870@elvis.mu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <58217.994803612.1@revolt.poohsticks.org> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:20:12 -0600 From: Drew Eckhardt Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20010710170050.F47870@elvis.mu.org>, billf@mu.org writes: >I'd personally suggest just tuning net.inet.tcp.*space to 64k at most. 1. Depends on your application. To avoid TCP window size related slowdowns, it needs to be at least as large as the bandwidth delay product (multiply bandwidth by RTT). 2. net.inet.tcp.*space affects the _defaults_. Changing them means that you'll use huge amounts of memory even in places where it doesn't matter (like ftp control connections). Instead, use setsockopt with SO_SNDBUF and SO_RCVBUF where appropriate. -- Home Page For those who do, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 15:39:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [194.221.183.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 086C937B405 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:39:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tmoestl@gmx.net) Received: (qmail 16403 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jul 2001 22:39:28 -0000 Received: from pd900c789.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO forge.local) (217.0.199.137) by mail.gmx.net (mp002-rz3) with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 22:39:28 -0000 Received: from tmm by forge.local with local (Exim 3.30 #1) id 15K6AA-0002dv-00; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 00:39:26 +0200 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 00:39:26 +0200 From: Thomas Moestl To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Cc: Matt Dillon , Boris Popov Subject: Please review: bugfix for vinvalbuf() Message-ID: <20010711003926.B8799@crow.dom2ip.de> Mail-Followup-To: Thomas Moestl , hackers@FreeBSD.org, Matt Dillon , Boris Popov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="QKdGvSO+nmPlgiQ/" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --QKdGvSO+nmPlgiQ/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi, I've just tripped over an obviously long-standing (since about Jan. 1998) bug in vinvalbuf while looking into PR kern/26224. The problematic code looks like (on -CURRENT): /* * Destroy the copy in the VM cache, too. */ mtx_lock(&vp->v_interlock); if (VOP_GETVOBJECT(vp, &object) == 0) { vm_object_page_remove(object, 0, 0, (flags & V_SAVE) ? TRUE : FALSE); } mtx_unlock(&vp->v_interlock); The locks seem to be needed for file systems that don't perform real locking (on -STABLE, they are simplelocks). This, however, is incorrect because vm_object_page_remove may sleep. I've attached a patch that passes the interlock to vm_object_page_remove, which in turn passes it to a modified version of vm_page_sleep, which unlocks it around the sleep. I think that this is correct, because the object should be in a valid state when we sleep (and all checks are reexecuted in that case). Since I'm not very experienced with vfs and vm stuff, I'd be glad if this patch could get some review. In particular, is the lock/unlock pair really still needed, and are there notable differeces in -STABLE (because the fix would need the be MFC'ed)? Thanks, - thomas --QKdGvSO+nmPlgiQ/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vinvalbuf.diff" Index: kern/vfs_subr.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/kern/vfs_subr.c,v retrieving revision 1.315 diff -u -r1.315 vfs_subr.c --- kern/vfs_subr.c 2001/07/04 16:20:13 1.315 +++ kern/vfs_subr.c 2001/07/10 19:45:41 @@ -800,7 +800,7 @@ mtx_lock(&vp->v_interlock); if (VOP_GETVOBJECT(vp, &object) == 0) { vm_object_page_remove(object, 0, 0, - (flags & V_SAVE) ? TRUE : FALSE); + (flags & V_SAVE) ? TRUE : FALSE, &vp->v_interlock); } mtx_unlock(&vp->v_interlock); Index: vm/vm_map.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/vm/vm_map.c,v retrieving revision 1.206 diff -u -r1.206 vm_map.c --- vm/vm_map.c 2001/07/04 20:15:16 1.206 +++ vm/vm_map.c 2001/07/10 20:02:41 @@ -1875,7 +1875,7 @@ vm_object_page_remove(object, OFF_TO_IDX(offset), OFF_TO_IDX(offset + size + PAGE_MASK), - FALSE); + FALSE, NULL); } VOP_UNLOCK(object->handle, 0, curproc); vm_object_deallocate(object); @@ -1991,7 +1991,7 @@ offidxend = offidxstart + count; if ((object == kernel_object) || (object == kmem_object)) { - vm_object_page_remove(object, offidxstart, offidxend, FALSE); + vm_object_page_remove(object, offidxstart, offidxend, FALSE, NULL); } else { pmap_remove(map->pmap, s, e); if (object != NULL && @@ -1999,7 +1999,7 @@ (object->flags & (OBJ_NOSPLIT|OBJ_ONEMAPPING)) == OBJ_ONEMAPPING && (object->type == OBJT_DEFAULT || object->type == OBJT_SWAP)) { vm_object_collapse(object); - vm_object_page_remove(object, offidxstart, offidxend, FALSE); + vm_object_page_remove(object, offidxstart, offidxend, FALSE, NULL); if (object->type == OBJT_SWAP) { swap_pager_freespace(object, offidxstart, count); } @@ -2994,7 +2994,7 @@ /* * Remove unneeded old pages */ - vm_object_page_remove(first_object, 0, 0, 0); + vm_object_page_remove(first_object, 0, 0, 0, NULL); /* * Invalidate swap space Index: vm/vm_object.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/vm/vm_object.c,v retrieving revision 1.196 diff -u -r1.196 vm_object.c --- vm/vm_object.c 2001/07/04 20:15:16 1.196 +++ vm/vm_object.c 2001/07/10 20:03:23 @@ -1438,7 +1438,7 @@ * The object must be locked. */ void -vm_object_page_remove(vm_object_t object, vm_pindex_t start, vm_pindex_t end, boolean_t clean_only) +vm_object_page_remove(vm_object_t object, vm_pindex_t start, vm_pindex_t end, boolean_t clean_only, struct mtx *interlk) { vm_page_t p, next; unsigned int size; @@ -1478,7 +1478,7 @@ * interrupt -- minimize the spl transitions */ - if (vm_page_sleep_busy(p, TRUE, "vmopar")) + if (vm_page_sleep_busy_lk(p, TRUE, "vmopar", interlk)) goto again; if (clean_only && p->valid) { @@ -1509,7 +1509,7 @@ * The busy flags are only cleared at * interrupt -- minimize the spl transitions */ - if (vm_page_sleep_busy(p, TRUE, "vmopar")) + if (vm_page_sleep_busy_lk(p, TRUE, "vmopar", interlk)) goto again; if (clean_only && p->valid) { @@ -1601,7 +1601,7 @@ if (next_pindex < prev_object->size) { vm_object_page_remove(prev_object, next_pindex, - next_pindex + next_size, FALSE); + next_pindex + next_size, FALSE, NULL); if (prev_object->type == OBJT_SWAP) swap_pager_freespace(prev_object, next_pindex, next_size); Index: vm/vm_object.h =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/vm/vm_object.h,v retrieving revision 1.73 diff -u -r1.73 vm_object.h --- vm/vm_object.h 2001/07/04 20:15:16 1.73 +++ vm/vm_object.h 2001/07/10 19:52:18 @@ -187,7 +187,7 @@ void vm_object_vndeallocate (vm_object_t); void vm_object_init (void); void vm_object_page_clean (vm_object_t, vm_pindex_t, vm_pindex_t, boolean_t); -void vm_object_page_remove (vm_object_t, vm_pindex_t, vm_pindex_t, boolean_t); +void vm_object_page_remove (vm_object_t, vm_pindex_t, vm_pindex_t, boolean_t, struct mtx *); void vm_object_pmap_copy (vm_object_t, vm_pindex_t, vm_pindex_t); void vm_object_pmap_copy_1 (vm_object_t, vm_pindex_t, vm_pindex_t); void vm_object_pmap_remove (vm_object_t, vm_pindex_t, vm_pindex_t); Index: vm/vm_page.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/vm/vm_page.c,v retrieving revision 1.168 diff -u -r1.168 vm_page.c --- vm/vm_page.c 2001/07/04 23:27:08 1.168 +++ vm/vm_page.c 2001/07/10 20:03:55 @@ -508,7 +508,7 @@ */ int -vm_page_sleep_busy(vm_page_t m, int also_m_busy, const char *msg) +vm_page_sleep_busy_lk(vm_page_t m, int also_m_busy, const char *msg, struct mtx *interlk) { GIANT_REQUIRED; if ((m->flags & PG_BUSY) || (also_m_busy && m->busy)) { @@ -518,7 +518,11 @@ * Page is busy. Wait and retry. */ vm_page_flag_set(m, PG_WANTED | PG_REFERENCED); + if (interlk != NULL) + mtx_unlock(interlk); tsleep(m, PVM, msg, 0); + if (interlk != NULL) + mtx_lock(interlk); } splx(s); return(TRUE); Index: vm/vm_page.h =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/vm/vm_page.h,v retrieving revision 1.89 diff -u -r1.89 vm_page.h --- vm/vm_page.h 2001/07/04 23:27:09 1.89 +++ vm/vm_page.h 2001/07/10 19:59:42 @@ -340,7 +340,9 @@ void vm_page_copy(vm_page_t src_m, vm_page_t dest_m); void vm_page_free(vm_page_t m); void vm_page_free_zero(vm_page_t m); -int vm_page_sleep_busy(vm_page_t m, int also_m_busy, const char *msg); +#define vm_page_sleep_busy(m, also_m_busy, msg) \ + vm_page_sleep_busy_lk(m, also_m_busy, msg, NULL) +int vm_page_sleep_busy_lk(vm_page_t m, int also_m_busy, const char *msg, struct mtx *); void vm_page_dirty(vm_page_t m); void vm_page_undirty(vm_page_t m); vm_page_t vm_page_list_find(int basequeue, int index, boolean_t prefer_zero); Index: vm/vnode_pager.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/vm/vnode_pager.c,v retrieving revision 1.134 diff -u -r1.134 vnode_pager.c --- vm/vnode_pager.c 2001/07/04 19:00:13 1.134 +++ vm/vnode_pager.c 2001/07/10 19:57:35 @@ -294,7 +294,7 @@ vm_freeze_copyopts(object, OFF_TO_IDX(nsize), object->size); if (nobjsize < object->size) { vm_object_page_remove(object, nobjsize, object->size, - FALSE); + FALSE, NULL); } /* * this gets rid of garbage at the end of a page that is now --QKdGvSO+nmPlgiQ/-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 15:50: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from london.physics.purdue.edu (london.physics.purdue.edu [128.210.67.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F63937B405; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:50:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@physics.purdue.edu) Received: from bohr.physics.purdue.edu (bohr.physics.purdue.edu [128.210.67.12]) by london.physics.purdue.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12592; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:50:02 -0500 (EST) Received: by bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 12409) id C62C35BB5; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:50:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:50:03 -0500 From: Will Andrews To: "Lakey, Jeremy # IHTUL" Cc: questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: (a bit offtopic) KDE2.1.1 install Message-ID: <20010710175003.Y97456@bohr.physics.purdue.edu> Reply-To: Will Andrews References: <4242F92CA015D5119B96006008340142012554FC@claven.cistech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.17i In-Reply-To: <4242F92CA015D5119B96006008340142012554FC@claven.cistech.com>; from jeremy.lakey@ndchealth.com on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 02:27:35PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ redirected to -questions ] On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 02:27:35PM -0500, Lakey, Jeremy # IHTUL (jeremy.lakey@ndchealth.com) wrote: > I'm running a p233 with 128mgs of ram, and KDE 2.1.1 install has been > compiling ALL MORNING! > > Is this unusual? No. It takes 6 hours on my dual Pentium III 600MHz with 640MB RAM to install KDE 2.1.2[*] (from ports/x11/kde2 meta-port). I would imagine on your system it will take 12-18 hours. Use the packages if you don't like this. OR.. use something lighter on the system like Window Maker... 8) -- wca [*] 2.1.2 is just a security release for kdelibs only. Nevertheless, it's what's currently in ports. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 16:45: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mimer.webgiro.com (mimer.webgiro.com [213.162.131.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E23C37B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:45:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 501) id A1501343B3; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 01:40:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C70C343AE for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 01:40:17 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 01:40:17 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: [ANNOUNCE] SPY-1.1 - syscall monitoring kernel module Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I just uploaded an updated version of the SPY, which is a kernel module that allows to selectively monitor and/or block execution of any syscalls. This version works on relatively current -CURRENT (after the struct proc changes). You can get it from: http://people.freebsd.org/~abial See also the detailed description there. I should be able also to provide a version for 4-STABLE soon, depending on my time and availability of the machine... Enjoy! -- Andrzej // ---------------------------------------------------------------- // Andrzej Bialecki , Chief System Architect // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ---------------------------------------------------------------- // FreeBSD developer (http://www.freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 17:44:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.vicor-nb.com (bigwoop.vicor-nb.com [208.206.78.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2261937B405 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:44:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@vicor-nb.com) Received: from vicor-nb.com (dhcp122.vicor-nb.com [208.206.78.122]) by mail.vicor-nb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 037361B211 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:44:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4BA385.1C6A7E59@vicor-nb.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:53:25 -0700 From: Julian ELischer Organization: VICOR X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.3-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: B/W quickcam..(anyone got the program?) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I had a copy of Xfqcam that used to run this B/W qcam I have sitting here but it seems that I must have got it from somewher estrange because I cannot find it anywhere these days... anyone still have a copy of it? (I think it was left on my on=ld machine at whistle when I left :-( ) julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 18:10:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.viasoft.com.cn (unknown [61.153.1.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D25637B405 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:10:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsddiy@163.net) Received: from xyf ([192.168.1.54]) by mail.viasoft.com.cn (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27949; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:12:09 +0800 Message-ID: <004901c109a6$e5805ae0$3601a8c0@xyf> From: "David Xu" To: "Sheldon Hearn" , References: <45971.994767699@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Subject: Re: vfs.vmiodirenable undocumented Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:14:18 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG but why hasn't a complete sysctl manual? I see OpenBSD has a better sysctl manual, our sysctl(8) is too bad, except the command usage info is useful, all left is garbage=20 information and waste disk space. Regards, David Xu ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Sheldon Hearn To: Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 8:21 PM Subject: Re: vfs.vmiodirenable undocumented=20 >=20 >=20 > On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:13:23 +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: >=20 > > Someone recently suggested that I tune vfs.vmiodirenable on a system > > with lots of memory. The CVS commit logs and the source tell me > > absolutely nothing about what this tunable does. > >=20 > > Is anyone in a position to document it? >=20 > Someone mailed me privately and pointed out that the sysctl is > documented in tuning(7). >=20 > Thanks, > Sheldon. >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 18:21:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sneakerz.org (sneakerz.org [216.33.66.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B613337B406 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:21:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@sneakerz.org) Received: by sneakerz.org (Postfix, from userid 1092) id B21E95D020; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 20:21:33 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 20:21:33 -0500 From: Alfred Perlstein To: David Xu Cc: Sheldon Hearn , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: vfs.vmiodirenable undocumented Message-ID: <20010710202133.X1894@sneakerz.org> References: <45971.994767699@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <004901c109a6$e5805ae0$3601a8c0@xyf> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <004901c109a6$e5805ae0$3601a8c0@xyf>; from bsddiy@163.net on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 09:14:18AM +0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * David Xu [010710 20:10] wrote: > but why hasn't a complete sysctl manual? > I see OpenBSD has a better sysctl manual, our sysctl(8) is too bad, > except the command usage info is useful, all left is garbage > information and waste disk space. David, I know you're busy writing the nextgen version of the FreeBSD logging filesystem, but I'm hoping that you'll be able to fit in an improved sysctl(8) into your work queue as well. What do you say? -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] Ok, who wrote this damn function called '??'? And why do my programs keep crashing in it? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 18:24:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7339037B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:24:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmah@employees.org) Received: from intruder.bmah.org ([24.176.204.87]) by femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010711012451.JNGT18257.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@intruder.bmah.org>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:24:51 -0700 Received: (from bmah@localhost) by intruder.bmah.org (8.11.4/8.11.3) id f6B1Opv16887; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:24:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmah) Message-Id: <200107110124.f6B1Opv16887@intruder.bmah.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/09/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: "David Xu" Cc: "Sheldon Hearn" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vfs.vmiodirenable undocumented In-Reply-To: <004901c109a6$e5805ae0$3601a8c0@xyf> References: <45971.994767699@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <004901c109a6$e5805ae0$3601a8c0@xyf> Comments: In-reply-to "David Xu" message dated "Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:14:18 +0800." From: "Bruce A. Mah" Reply-To: bmah@FreeBSD.ORG X-Face: g~c`.{#4q0"(V*b#g[i~rXgm*w;:nMfz%_RZLma)UgGN&=j`5vXoU^@n5v4:OO)c["!w)nD/!!~e4Sj7LiT'6*wZ83454H""lb{CC%T37O!!'S$S&D}sem7I[A 2V%N&+ X-Image-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/Images/bmah-cisco-small.gif X-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_-1370626972P"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:24:50 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --==_Exmh_-1370626972P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If memory serves me right, "David Xu" wrote: > but why hasn't a complete sysctl manual? > I see OpenBSD has a better sysctl manual, our sysctl(8) is too bad, > except the command usage info is useful, all left is garbage > information and waste disk space. I'm sorry, I missed the part of your message containing the patches to fix this problem. Bruce. --==_Exmh_-1370626972P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: Exmh version 2.3.1+ 05/14/2001 iD8DBQE7S6ri2MoxcVugUsMRAsFHAJ0UJEcZ/KCjECzVc8lfcUwZnqNp2QCeLwSk hCQ9V0VkG3Og8I7dmt7/Njw= =+qbX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_-1370626972P-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 18:27:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16ECD37B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:27:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from culverk@wam.umd.edu) Received: from rac1.wam.umd.edu (IDENT:root@rac1.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.141]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01091; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac1.wam.umd.edu (IDENT:sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac1.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA07212; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (culverk@localhost) by rac1.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07208; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:27:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac1.wam.umd.edu: culverk owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:27:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Wayne Culver To: Joseph Lekostaj Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TCP Window Size In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You made it way to big... On 10 Jul 2001, Joseph Lekostaj wrote: > > I've been trying to up my TCP window size from the default 16K and it's caused nothing but problems. From the info I've found so far, these are the sysctl i've changed: > > kern.ipc.maxsockbuffer=2097152 > net.inet.tcp.rfc1323=1 > net.inet.tcp.sendspace=524288 > net.inet.tcp.recvspace=524288 > > But if I do that, on boot I get all sorts of error messages about buffer space. i.e.: > > Jul 9 11:53:20 ccn64 portmap[180]: cannot create tcp socket: No buffer space available > Jul 9 11:53:21 ccn64 inetd[199]: shell/tcp: socket: No buffer space available > Jul 9 11:53:21 ccn64 inetd[199]: login/tcp: socket: No buffer space available > Jul 9 11:58:55 ccn64 RPC::PlClient[243]: Cannot connect: No buffer space available > Jul 9 11:58:55 ccn64 RPC::PlClient[246]: Cannot connect: No buffer space available > > Is there anything I'm missing? > > -- > Joe LeKostaj > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Just don't create a file called -rf. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 19: 2:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (cust-P5-R11-246.POOL.ESR.SJO.wwc.com [206.112.122.246]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 190C537B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:02:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6B2GO102444; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:16:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200107110216.f6B2GO102444@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Bill Moran Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:51:18 EDT." <3B4B0856.A67F02FD@iowna.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:16:24 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > In the "default" case, it should attempt to obtain a DHCP lease, > > and, failing that, ask the user to give it settings, or let > > them do IPv4 stateless autoconfiguration. Ad Hoc networking > > should always "just work". > > If anyone is taking a vote, I disagree. I do not want any system > ever assuming anything about my network. Even Win checks with the > user before enabling DHCP. Er, you *are* kidding, right? All modern Windows versions will try to get a lease long before the user has any say in the matter. So does OS X. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 10 23:43:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECE1C37B403; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:43:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f6B6hTB24707; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:43:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:43:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200107110643.f6B6hTB24707@earth.backplane.com> To: Thomas Moestl Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Boris Popov Subject: more on Re: Please review: bugfix for vinvalbuf() References: <20010711003926.B8799@crow.dom2ip.de> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Hi, : :I've just tripped over an obviously long-standing (since about :Jan. 1998) bug in vinvalbuf while looking into PR kern/26224. The :problematic code looks like (on -CURRENT): : : /* : * Destroy the copy in the VM cache, too. : */ : mtx_lock(&vp->v_interlock); : if (VOP_GETVOBJECT(vp, &object) == 0) { : vm_object_page_remove(object, 0, 0, : (flags & V_SAVE) ? TRUE : FALSE); : } : mtx_unlock(&vp->v_interlock); : :The locks seem to be needed for file systems that don't perform real :locking (on -STABLE, they are simplelocks). :This, however, is incorrect because vm_object_page_remove may sleep. :I've attached a patch that passes the interlock to :vm_object_page_remove, which in turn passes it to a modified version :of vm_page_sleep, which unlocks it around the sleep. :I think that this is correct, because the object should be in a valid :state when we sleep (and all checks are reexecuted in that case). : :Since I'm not very experienced with vfs and vm stuff, I'd be glad if :this patch could get some review. In particular, is the lock/unlock :pair really still needed, and are there notable differeces in -STABLE :(because the fix would need the be MFC'ed)? : :Thanks, : - thomas Ok, I've looked at this more. What is supposed to happen is that the 'while (vp->v_numoutput) ...' code just above the section you cited is supposed to prevent the deadlock. The while code looks like this: while (vp->v_numoutput > 0) { vp->v_flag |= VBWAIT; tsleep(&vp->v_numoutput, PVM, "vnvlbv", 0); } However, as Ian points out in his followup, it doesn't work: :... :I've seen a related deadlock here in 4.x with NFS; vm_fault locks :a page and then calls vput which aquires the v_interlock. This code :in vinvalbuf locks the v_interlock first, and then vm_object_page_remove() :locks the page. That's a simple lock-order reversal deadlock which I :guess would still exist even with this patch. It doesn't work for the simple reason that vm_fault isn't busying the page for writing, it's busying it for reading, so v_numoutput will be 0. I think the best solution is to change vinvalbuf's wait loop to wait on vm_object->paging_in_progress instead of vp->v_numoutput, or perhaps to wait for both conditions to be satisfied. vm_object->paging_in_progress applies to reads and writes, while vp->v_numoutput only applies to writes. I know this isn't the most correct solution... there is still the lock reversal if vm_object_remove_pages() were ever to sleep. The idea is that it won't sleep if there is no paging in progress because nobody will have any of the object's pages locked. I think it is the best we can do for the moment. There are several places in vm/vm_object.c where the same assumption is made (testing against vm_object->paging_in_progress, though, which works, not vp->v_numoutput). - Thomas, if you are interested this could be a little project for you. See if you can code-up another while() loop to also wait for the object's paging_in_progress count to become 0 in the vinvalbuf() code. Look in vm/vm_object.c for examples of how to construct such a loop. I will be happy to review and test whatever you come up with and I'm sure Ian will too! -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 0:57:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD21E37B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 00:57:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=87ed9f50397bae1fb7517569bcc9ee5d) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15KExy-0000PR-00; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 02:03:26 -0600 Message-ID: <3B4C084E.2A14655A@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 02:03:26 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Moran Cc: tlambert2@mindspring.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <200107100332.UAA13663@usr01.primenet.com> <3B4B0856.A67F02FD@iowna.com> <3B4B3866.FBFF9A65@mindspring.com> <3B4B420C.1947DABE@iowna.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Moran wrote: > > Terry Lambert wrote: > > > If anyone is taking a vote, I disagree. I do not want any system > > > ever assuming anything about my network. Even Win checks with the > > > user before enabling DHCP. > > > > FYI: The networking bootstrap process I described above > > is derived from the process used by Windows 98 and above, > > as it comes configured by default on systems with integral > > network cards. > > Personally, I don't consider win98 a reference point > by which to model OS design. When you say win98 and > above do you include the NT line (win2k)? With > the _current_ IPv4 network, I don't see any good > reason for servers to use DHCP Just because you don't see it doesn't make it a bad idea. Network admins begged for years for a centralized IP address space management server; now that they've been given one (that works, and is FREE) people like you bitch about it and won't use it. Feh. > and FreeBSD is primarily a server OS Sez who? For what it's worth, my DoBox now does an automatic DHCP with a short time- out, and if it doesn't get a least on the DSL or CableModem uplink, tries a PPPoE lease. If that fails as well, THEN it asks the user what to do, because it has exhausted it's limited supply of knowlege about how to automatically configure the uplink. That, my friends, is the correct way to do it: try everything you reasonably can, then and only then pester the user if none of the default(s) worked. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 1: 7:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts14.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB8CF37B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 01:07:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dp@penix.org) Received: from penix.org ([65.92.112.161]) by tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20010711080740.XMGA2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@penix.org>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 04:07:40 -0400 Message-ID: <3B4C0CC5.5A46CB45@penix.org> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 04:22:29 -0400 From: Paul Halliday X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.3-RC i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Moestl Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Can someone verify this? References: <3B4793CB.FDC5B64@penix.org> <20010710234545.A8799@crow.dom2ip.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thomas Moestl wrote: > > If it was an audio CD you were trying to mount: this is a known > problem. The attached patch fixes it for me by disallowing reading of > partial blocks; this could also be fixed by setting the buffer size > different from the transfer size in such a case. > > - thomas > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > acd-stable.diffName: acd-stable.diff > Type: Plain Text (text/plain) Worked like a charm. Thanks. -- Paul H. ___________________ http://dp.penix.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 1:14:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DFEC37B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 01:14:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=b86cb317b704b3826038002f2fe01935) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15KFEA-0000Pg-00; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 02:20:10 -0600 Message-ID: <3B4C0C3A.64E05112@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 02:20:10 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Moran Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> <3B4B1B66.C011BF2B@softweyr.com> <3B4B32F3.7AC70D66@iowna.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Moran wrote: > > Wes Peters wrote: > > > Allow > > the user to grab the ends of partitions we can manipulate and move them > > around, either through keyboard navigation or with a mouse. > > Hmmm ... we're really aiming at novice users here now, aren't we? I > suppose > that's not a bad thing, but I just never thought of going so far with > it. > > > Focus on the > > task we're attempting to accomplish: slicing the disk into 1 to 4 differnt > > logical parts, rather than on the crufty underlying details. > > Hmmm ... well, I was never upset with the "crufty details" ... I rather > like > to know what's going on under the hood all the time. Then again, that's > me. If you're targeting newbies and other less-educated (or less "I sure > would like to figure this out" inclined) people, then what you're > suggesting would probably be a good idea. Uh, yeah, by definition, we're targeting people who have never seen FreeBSD before -- that's what an installer is all about. This is a lesson I had pounded into me the hard way many years ago by Rob Clyde, who was at that time trying to get people to buy the software I was writing. The lesson: "If they can't install it, they'll never know how good it is." That lesson led to a rather graceless 30-day slip in a very important release, to give our 3-man team time to write a multi-architecture, across-the-network installation tool. It added zero value to the product itself, but made it so that independant auditors from the "Big 8" accounting firms could install our security monitoring package easily on every machine at a customer site, using a 30-day "walk around" license, run their audits, present the reports to their customer, and leave the software installed with a couple of weeks of license left. Within 6 months, half our sales were converted walk around licenses left by auditors. I'll close and bow out of this bikeshed by quoting Rob again: "If they can't install it, they'll never know how good it is." This is probably the only POSITIVE less Rob Clyde ever taught me, but it's a good one. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 1:38:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from l04.research.kpn.com (l04.research.kpn.com [139.63.192.204]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED82837B407; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 01:38:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from K.J.Koster@kpn.com) Received: by l04.research.kpn.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:38:36 +0100 Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452205FD9D60@l04.research.kpn.com> From: "Koster, K.J." To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Athlon MP / AMD 760MP Chipset (Athlon SMP question) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:38:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear All, > > The new iTanic (aka Itanium) processor... > TiTanic? Hmm, no wonder they get such bad press over this thing. Kees Jan ===================================================== You can't have everything. Where would you put it? [Steven Wright] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 2:20:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from axl.seasidesoftware.co.za (axl.seasidesoftware.co.za [196.31.7.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F3A637B403; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 02:20:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sheldonh@starjuice.net) Received: from sheldonh (helo=axl.seasidesoftware.co.za) by axl.seasidesoftware.co.za with local-esmtp (Exim 3.31 #1) id 15KGBQ-0000J6-00; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:21:24 +0200 From: Sheldon Hearn To: bmah@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: "David Xu" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vfs.vmiodirenable undocumented In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:24:50 MST." <200107110124.f6B1Opv16887@intruder.bmah.org> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:21:24 +0200 Message-ID: <1183.994843284@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:24:50 MST, "Bruce A. Mah" wrote: > I'm sorry, I missed the part of your message containing the patches to > fix this problem. Bruce, I'm using your message as an example because you're good at shrugging stuff like this off. :-) I'm very concerned with the fact that this style of response has become commonly accepted within the FreeBSD community. Yes, we like patches. Yes, in this case the only reason we don't have what David requested is that nobody's done the work. However, there's no need for sarcasm. This response could easily be reworded as Everyone agrees that better sysctl documentation would be great, but nobody has done the work to provide it. If you'd like to do the work, check the -hackers archives, where you'll find a few opinions about how this should be done. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 2:21: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nef.ens.fr (nef.ens.fr [129.199.96.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D65737B431 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 02:20:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Rahul.Siddharthan@lpt.ens.fr) Received: from corto.lpt.ens.fr (corto.lpt.ens.fr [129.199.122.2]) by nef.ens.fr (8.10.1/1.01.28121999) with ESMTP id f6B9Ktm02915 ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:20:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from (rsidd@localhost) by corto.lpt.ens.fr (8.9.3/jtpda-5.3.1) id LAA95852 ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:20:54 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:20:54 +0200 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Terry Lambert Cc: Rasputin , Jamie Bowden , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010711112054.D93534@lpt.ens.fr> References: <200107100731.f6A7VxR05700@panix1.panix.com> <20010710125613.A51035@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <3B4B33DA.242EFDDC@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B4B33DA.242EFDDC@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 09:56:58AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert said on Jul 10, 2001 at 09:56:58: > > Also, you should be aware that in commercial deployment, > having a compiler on board the system is often considered > a bad thing, as it permits entre to exploiters bringing > their own programs onto the system. I've seen people disable compilers before, but I haven't understood how it helps. You can compile elsewhere and bring the binary onto the system, can't you? Unless the system is some extremely rare OS or doesn't ship with a compiler at all -- neither of which is true of FreeBSD. R To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 4:24:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from proxon.bnc.net (proxon.bnc.net [62.225.99.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9449437B407 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 04:24:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from noses@proxon.bnc.net) Received: (from noses@localhost) by proxon.bnc.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f6BBO9B46455; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:24:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from noses) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:24:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200107111124.f6BBO9B46455@proxon.bnc.net> From: Noses To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Organization: Noses' cave In-Reply-To: <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> User-Agent: tin/1.5.6-20000803 ("Dust") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-STABLE (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) wrote: > Oh, come now. FreeBSD's disk partitioning has always sucked. I just installed NetBSD on a Sun. Believe me, I'd even willing to pay for sysinstall as it is right now. It was a nightmare. > The main problem with sysinstall all along has been that it is a one-off > program. There is no glitz in writing installers, and they're only used > once, then rarely if ever again. I guess you're wrong; it is actually easier to tell customers to use /stand/sysinstall for package management and configuration of /etc/rc.conf than having them attack delicate parts of the system with clumsy fingers. Noses. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 4:51:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jake.akitanet.co.uk (jake.akitanet.co.uk [212.1.130.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD88137B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 04:51:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wiggy@wopr.akitanet.co.uk) Received: from dsl-212-135-208-201.dsl.easynet.co.uk ([212.135.208.201] helo=wopr.akitanet.co.uk) by jake.akitanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #3) id 15KIWI-000ME7-00; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:51:06 +0100 Received: from wiggy by wopr.akitanet.co.uk with local (Exim 3.21 #2) id 15KIWk-000Int-00; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:51:34 +0100 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:51:34 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Noses Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010711125134.D56234@jake.akitanet.co.uk> References: <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <200107111124.f6BBO9B46455@proxon.bnc.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200107111124.f6BBO9B46455@proxon.bnc.net>; from noses@noses.com on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 01:24:09PM +0200 X-Scanner: exiscan *15KIWI-000ME7-00*$AK$peqWh9rdPvkMpqChhTeGg/* Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jul 11, Noses wrote: > > I guess you're wrong; it is actually easier to tell customers to use > /stand/sysinstall for package management and configuration of /etc/rc.conf > than having them attack delicate parts of the system with clumsy fingers. Never mind customers, I like to use it myself. I'm not really somebody who wants to get into how to build X and KDE, so when I do need it on a box, I just use all the stuff in /stand/sysinstall The problem with the FreeBSD install is that it's not intuitive the first time you go to use it. Once you've done it, the next time is easy, but if you want to make it as appealing to install to a newbie as say, Mandrake, then it needs a lot of work. As somebody else has said on this thread, if the newbies can't install the OS and the packages they want easily, they aren't going to use it. With Mandrake they can have a working, partitioned up system with a choice of window managers under X, loads of apps pre-installed, the whole lot, in less than an hour. Currently with FreeBSD to get X and KDE and perhaps a few other apps on will take a fair bit longer if you're new to the Unix game. I suppose it all depends on whether you're more interested in the Desktop or the Server - I use FBSD as a server OS, so am happy with minimal installs. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 5: 0:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com [65.24.0.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 441B637B406 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 05:00:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@iowna.com) Received: from iowna.com (dhcp065-024-023-038.columbus.rr.com [65.24.23.38]) by clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f6BBuiZ11804 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:56:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B4C3FB8.9D667B0A@iowna.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:59:52 -0400 From: Bill Moran X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <200107110216.f6B2GO102444@mass.dis.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > > If anyone is taking a vote, I disagree. I do not want any system > > ever assuming anything about my network. Even Win checks with the > > user before enabling DHCP. > > Er, you *are* kidding, right? All modern Windows versions will try to > get a lease long before the user has any say in the matter. So does OS X. Well, I haven't gotten around to installing win2k or OS X yet. The last time I installed NT4 I seem to remember it explicitly asking me if I wanted to use DHCP or not, but I don't remember if I was on a network with a DHCP server when I did that, so it might have tried and failed. Apparently my information is terribly out of date. It appears as if I'll have to humbly stand corrected. -Bill -- If a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, then what can I get for two hands in the bush? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 5:17: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com [65.24.0.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A22E337B406 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 05:17:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@iowna.com) Received: from iowna.com (dhcp065-024-023-038.columbus.rr.com [65.24.23.38]) by clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f6BCDQZ18670; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:13:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B4C43A2.85516A24@iowna.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:16:34 -0400 From: Bill Moran X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <200107100332.UAA13663@usr01.primenet.com> <3B4B0856.A67F02FD@iowna.com> <3B4B3866.FBFF9A65@mindspring.com> <3B4B420C.1947DABE@iowna.com> <3B4C084E.2A14655A@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > Just because you don't see it doesn't make it a bad idea. Network admins > begged for years for a centralized IP address space management server; > now that they've been given one (that works, and is FREE) people like you > bitch about it and won't use it. Feh. Are you saying you use DHCP for servers? If so, maybe I should shut up and listen for a while because apparently there's something here I can learn. I've been using it for client IP pools for years now, but not for servers. > > and FreeBSD is primarily a server OS > > Sez who? OK, that was a bad statement to make. I made an assumption there which may be terribly incorrect and is based only on my customer base. (which involves 9 FreeBSD servers and only one desktop machine - mine) That is (admittedly) a painfully small sampling and I have never seen any survey to back that statement. I'll consent that it was unfounded. > For what it's worth, my DoBox now does an automatic DHCP with a short time- > out, and if it doesn't get a least on the DSL or CableModem uplink, tries > a PPPoE lease. If that fails as well, THEN it asks the user what to do, > because it has exhausted it's limited supply of knowlege about how to > automatically configure the uplink. That, my friends, is the correct way > to do it: try everything you reasonably can, then and only then pester the > user if none of the default(s) worked. Well, the only place I dislike this is a server. Since many (most?) servers will be able to get DHCP addys, but the admin would rather them have a static IP. However, my original whine about DHCP was based on the assumption that most FreeBSD machines are servers and since I have to admit that I can't back that statement up, I'll have to admit that I really don't have much experience in how much demand there is for automatic network config during install time. The only statement I can accurately make is: "_I_ would like to have the option to NOT use DHCP at install time." -Bill -- If a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, then what can I get for two hands in the bush? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 5:29:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.newgold.net (aphex.newgold.net [209.42.222.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6360637B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 05:29:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmallett@newgold.net) Received: (qmail 3023 invoked by uid 1000); 11 Jul 2001 12:29:28 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 11 Jul 2001 12:29:28 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:29:28 +0000 (GMT) From: Joseph Mallett To: Bill Moran Cc: Wes Peters , Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <3B4C43A2.85516A24@iowna.com> Message-ID: <20010711122814.D3021-100000@Aphex.NewGold.NET> Organization: xMach Core Team [ http://www.xMach.org/ ] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Are you saying you use DHCP for servers? If so, maybe I should shut up > and > listen for a while because apparently there's something here I can > learn. I did for a long time because I simply couldn't get a static IP from my ISP. Hell, I'd love to use it now, then I wouldn't have to make sure I hardcode the IP/route/netmask/etc. into all my startup scripts on every box. But maybe convenience is a bad thing. -- Joseph A. Mallett http://srcsys.org xMach Core Team, www.xMach.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 5:30:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com [65.24.0.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F90837B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 05:30:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@iowna.com) Received: from iowna.com (dhcp065-024-023-038.columbus.rr.com [65.24.23.38]) by clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f6BCRHZ24667; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:27:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B4C46E1.8E65DB80@iowna.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:30:25 -0400 From: Bill Moran X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> <3B4B1B66.C011BF2B@softweyr.com> <3B4B32F3.7AC70D66@iowna.com> <3B4C0C3A.64E05112@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > > Hmmm ... well, I was never upset with the "crufty details" ... I rather > > like > > to know what's going on under the hood all the time. Then again, that's > > me. If you're targeting newbies and other less-educated (or less "I sure > > would like to figure this out" inclined) people, then what you're > > suggesting would probably be a good idea. > > Uh, yeah, by definition, we're targeting people who have never seen > FreeBSD before -- that's what an installer is all about. This is a > lesson I had pounded into me the hard way many years ago by Rob Clyde, > who was at that time trying to get people to buy the software I was > writing. The lesson: "If they can't install it, they'll never know > how good it is." I'll have to say that if I've been arguing against other people on this, I can't honestly argue against that logic. You're absolutely right that a lot of people will abort from trying something new at the first sign troubble. Thus the installer has to be super-simple and reliable and all that other stuff. I guess the thing that I'm worried about, which hasn't been explicitly stated but I've inferred from the conversation, is that a new installer will take on some characteristics of other installers that I despise. These characteristics can be broadly classified as "The software thinks it knows best, even when it doesn't have a clue, and will refuse to allow you to fix its mistakes." Having access to the crufty details gives me a lot of control and keeps me from saying, "I don't know what's wrong and I don't know how to fix it." I can never honestly say that with any open-source software, because I can always dig around in the source until I find what's wrong. So, on this topic, what I really WANT to say is: please don't make the crufty details inaccessable while making the interface easier to use. Along with that, I think I'm finally getting a handle on what really needs done to sysinstall. It's been a painful process, wrought with misunderstandings and confusion, but I think I'm finally getting what the point is. -Bill -- If a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, then what can I get for two hands in the bush? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 5:36:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com [65.24.0.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DF8E37B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 05:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@iowna.com) Received: from iowna.com (dhcp065-024-023-038.columbus.rr.com [65.24.23.38]) by clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f6BCWVZ27034; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B4C481B.D817A2B8@iowna.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:35:39 -0400 From: Bill Moran X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joseph Mallett Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010711122814.D3021-100000@Aphex.NewGold.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joseph Mallett wrote: > > > Are you saying you use DHCP for servers? If so, maybe I should shut up > > and > > listen for a while because apparently there's something here I can > > learn. > > I did for a long time because I simply couldn't get a static IP from my > ISP. Hell, I'd love to use it now, then I wouldn't have to make sure I > hardcode the IP/route/netmask/etc. into all my startup scripts on every > box. But maybe convenience is a bad thing. Hmmm ... but I'm talking about servers in general. It's one thing to have a dynamic IP on the outside of a firewall machine, but do you have a dynamic IP on the inside? Do other servers use dynamic IPs when they aren't forced to? -- If a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, then what can I get for two hands in the bush? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 6:14:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jake.akitanet.co.uk (jake.akitanet.co.uk [212.1.130.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30C7D37B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 06:14:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wiggy@wopr.akitanet.co.uk) Received: from dsl-212-135-208-201.dsl.easynet.co.uk ([212.135.208.201] helo=wopr.akitanet.co.uk) by jake.akitanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #3) id 15KJoc-000Ng5-00; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:14:06 +0100 Received: from wiggy by wopr.akitanet.co.uk with local (Exim 3.21 #2) id 15KJp9-000NTN-00; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:14:39 +0100 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:14:39 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Bill Moran Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010711141439.B73193@jake.akitanet.co.uk> References: <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> <3B4B1B66.C011BF2B@softweyr.com> <3B4B32F3.7AC70D66@iowna.com> <3B4C0C3A.64E05112@softweyr.com> <3B4C46E1.8E65DB80@iowna.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3B4C46E1.8E65DB80@iowna.com>; from wmoran@iowna.com on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 08:30:25AM -0400 X-Scanner: exiscan *15KJoc-000Ng5-00*$AK$l9.lXVv1AIbokJU/if/HK.* Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jul 11, Bill Moran wrote: > Along with that, I think I'm finally getting a handle on what really > needs done to sysinstall. It's been a painful process, wrought with > misunderstandings and confusion, but I think I'm finally getting what > the point is. To me, the point seems to be that to increase the userbase an installer that a 10 year old could use is a Good Thing. However, there should be an option before the installer starts up to go to a more traditional install (/stand/sysinstall is still fine for me, because I'm used to it), or whilst in the "magical fairies do it all for me"-installer, there should be the ability to get a detailed amount of status information and an "Advanced" option on the dialogues to be able to allow people to have more control if they need it at various points. The idea of more packages being installed and configured as a default is probably a good one too. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 6:23:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ndcorp.com (mail.ndchealth.com [206.227.248.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6495237B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 06:23:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremy.lakey@ndchealth.com) Received: from claven.cistech.com (claven.cistech.com [198.200.166.25]) by mail.ndcorp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22923 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:19:03 -0400 Received: by claven.cistech.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <3C4CYPGC>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:18:28 -0500 Message-ID: <4242F92CA015D5119B9600600834014201255504@claven.cistech.com> From: "Lakey, Jeremy # IHTUL" To: "'freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:18:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hmm.. At 10, I could've compiled it myself from source and installed, and the number of 10 year olds that can do that these days is growing. On that note tho, someone writes an installer, that's fantastic, but who says EVERYONE MUST USE IT?! You still have the option of doing it your own way, pre-installer, eh? -----Original Message----- From: Paul Robinson [mailto:paul@akita.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 8:15 AM To: Bill Moran Cc: Wes Peters; freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral To me, the point seems to be that to increase the userbase an installer that a 10 year old could use is a Good Thing. However, there should be an option before the installer starts up to go to a more traditional install (/stand/sysinstall is still fine for me, because I'm used to it), or whilst in the "magical fairies do it all for me"-installer, there should be the ability to get a detailed amount of status information and an "Advanced" option on the dialogues to be able to allow people to have more control if they need it at various points. The idea of more packages being installed and configured as a default is probably a good one too. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 7:34:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from aslan.scsiguy.com (aslan.scsiguy.com [63.229.232.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B50CC37B401; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:34:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gibbs@scsiguy.com) Received: from scsiguy.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.scsiguy.com (8.11.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f6BEYBU36829; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:34:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gibbs@scsiguy.com) Message-Id: <200107111434.f6BEYBU36829@aslan.scsiguy.com> To: Nik Clayton Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: What makes it FreeBSD... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 09 Jul 2001 23:16:26 BST." <20010709231626.B16152@clan.nothing-going-on.org> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:34:11 -0600 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >It's reasonable to want to control what get's called FreeBSD. > Certainly. But I think it has to go beyond the installer. We should define an environment that third party applications can depend on being available in any installation that claims to be FreeBSD. Without this, you have the same environement that Linux does where third party apps are only qualified on distribution U and X and have no hope of working on distributions Y and Z. -- Justin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 7:39:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E705337B406; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:39:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmah@employees.org) Received: from intruder.bmah.org ([24.176.204.87]) by femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010711143941.QFMZ9548.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@intruder.bmah.org>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:39:41 -0700 Received: (from bmah@localhost) by intruder.bmah.org (8.11.4/8.11.3) id f6BEde062643; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:39:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmah) Message-Id: <200107111439.f6BEde062643@intruder.bmah.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/09/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: bmah@FreeBSD.ORG, "David Xu" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vfs.vmiodirenable undocumented In-Reply-To: <1183.994843284@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> References: <1183.994843284@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Comments: In-reply-to Sheldon Hearn message dated "Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:21:24 +0200." From: bmah@FreeBSD.ORG (Bruce A. Mah) Reply-To: bmah@FreeBSD.ORG X-Face: g~c`.{#4q0"(V*b#g[i~rXgm*w;:nMfz%_RZLma)UgGN&=j`5vXoU^@n5v4:OO)c["!w)nD/!!~e4Sj7LiT'6*wZ83454H""lb{CC%T37O!!'S$S&D}sem7I[A 2V%N&+ X-Image-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/Images/bmah-cisco-small.gif X-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_298942880P"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:39:40 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --==_Exmh_298942880P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If memory serves me right, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > > > On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:24:50 MST, "Bruce A. Mah" wrote: > > > I'm sorry, I missed the part of your message containing the patches to > > fix this problem. > > Bruce, I'm using your message as an example because you're good at > shrugging stuff like this off. :-) :-) > I'm very concerned with the fact that this style of response has become > commonly accepted within the FreeBSD community. While I'm not sure this is a "commonly accepted" response, I agree with you 100% that this would be a Bad Thing (TM). > Yes, we like patches. Yes, in this case the only reason we don't have > what David requested is that nobody's done the work. > > However, there's no need for sarcasm. This response could easily be > reworded as > > Everyone agrees that better sysctl documentation would be great, > but nobody has done the work to provide it. If you'd like to do > the work, check the -hackers archives, where you'll find a few > opinions about how this should be done. In general, I agree with you. If the post I was responding to was the first one of its type I'd seen from David, I wouldn't have responded this way. In fact, when he wrote some text to the effect of "the release notes are bad, they should be like NetBSD", I tried (unsuccessfully) to engage in some dialog to figure out what his concerns were. Several months (and many observed posts later), I'm of the opinion that discouraging David from making "this sucks" posts (without providing any attempt at solutions) would be a Good Thing (TM). Maybe my response should have provided more context, so that people wouldn't *think* that replies like this were (or should be) the norm. Just explaining myself. You're absolutely right that this isn't a good way to reply to people's concerns in the general case. Cheers, Bruce. --==_Exmh_298942880P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: Exmh version 2.3.1+ 05/14/2001 iD8DBQE7TGUs2MoxcVugUsMRAnYPAJ4gdxmbB5k4IJIcgcbjoUcx21DgDwCgyAtd GAPM5BbkuqLaomxVQzyfZDw= =Kqo3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_298942880P-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 7:42: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from l04.research.kpn.com (l04.research.kpn.com [139.63.192.204]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96C7237B401; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:42:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from K.J.Koster@kpn.com) Received: by l04.research.kpn.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:42:00 +0100 Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452205FD9D70@l04.research.kpn.com> From: "Koster, K.J." To: "'Justin T. Gibbs'" , Nik Clayton Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: What makes it FreeBSD... Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:41:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear All, > > > >It's reasonable to want to control what get's called FreeBSD. > > > > Certainly. But I think it has to go beyond the installer. We > should define an environment that third party applications can > depend on being available in any installation that claims to > be FreeBSD. Without this, you have the same environement that > Linux does where third party apps are only qualified on distribution > U and X and have no hope of working on distributions Y and Z. > To me, what makes it FreeBSD is the fact that it came straight off cvsup.*.freebsd.org. We are fortunate to have a centralised distribution schema, so we can actually distinguish what is freebsd and what is (technically) not (darwin, trustedbsd). Kees Jan ===================================================== You can't have everything. Where would you put it? [Steven Wright] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 8:59:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (ussenterprise.ufp.org [208.185.30.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F7C337B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:59:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bicknell@ussenterprise.ufp.org) Received: (from bicknell@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f6BFxTW64891; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:59:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bicknell) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:59:29 -0400 From: Leo Bicknell To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: joelh@gnu.org Subject: PR bin/7265 - ln Message-ID: <20010711115929.G63273@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Organization: United Federation of Planets Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm going to dig up and old can of worms here, but I think I have something new to offer that might fix it. This is in reference to pr bin/7265, which can be found at: http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=bin%2F7265 From the how to repeat section, probably all you need to know: # cd /usr # ln -s src/sys /sys # cd /sys /sys: No such file or directory. (Emit the anguished wails of a tired sysadmin who thinks he's just lost his kernel source. Repeating this last step is optional.) There was a lot of talk about adding flags to ln to fix this problem to warn when the destination of a link doesn't exist and the like. Rightfully so, many worried that adding flags would cause issues (eg with POSIX options later) or that making ln emit messages in this case might break shell scripts. I think these are all valid points to one degree or another. But then it hit me, the problem isn't with ln. My origional discussion is in the pr, but here's an abbreviated version. There is no error in linking to a non-existing (at the time of link) file/directory. The ln should not produce an error, and warnings are, in general, frowned upon. However, there is very much an error from cd, and error that is quite poorly reported. cd gets this partically right, if you try to cd to an actual file, it produces a different error message: > touch file > cd file file: Not a directory. Quite clear. So, it would appear that the error "No such file or directory" really means one of two things (that I've come up with so far, can we think of more cases): "No such directory." "Symlink destination does not exist." Let's consider my hypothetical patched cd (which means patched shells, because it's a builtin): # cd /usr # ln -s src/sys /sys # cd /sys /sys: Symlink destination does not exist. I think our sysadmin would not be wailing, or at least not so much in that this error points you right where to look to either verify your files are still there, or verify the link is wrong. Since there is no change to ln, I don't think anyone can object that we're going to break scripts using ln. :-) The change to cd is only in the text of the error message, which is made more specific. I suppose someone could argue that a script uses that error message, but I highly doubt it as the script should be using the return value from cd, which would be unchanged. I also think it's hard to argue that error messages that better pinpoint the problem are a bad thing. The biggest drawback to this solution is that it will require shells to be changed, since as I mentioned before cd is a builtin. I still think that's cleaner than polluting ln, and is also a superior fix to the problem. Consider the can of worms open, who wants to bite? :-) -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org Systems Engineer - Internetworking Engineer - CCIE 3440 Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 9:56:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [63.86.88.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB70F37B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:56:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 86C5B755D; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:57:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83C211D90; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:57:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:57:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Terry Lambert , Rasputin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <20010711112054.D93534@lpt.ens.fr> Message-ID: Approved: yep X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: :Terry Lambert said on Jul 10, 2001 at 09:56:58: :> :> Also, you should be aware that in commercial deployment, :> having a compiler on board the system is often considered :> a bad thing, as it permits entre to exploiters bringing :> their own programs onto the system. : :I've seen people disable compilers before, but I haven't understood :how it helps. You can compile elsewhere and bring the binary onto the :system, can't you? Unless the system is some extremely rare OS or :doesn't ship with a compiler at all -- neither of which is true of :FreeBSD. It's a barrier to entry. Not everyone has your FreeBSD release level at home, or Solaris, Irix, AIX, HP/UX, etc. readily available to them. With FreeBSD (and Linux) it's easier to overcome, but it requires more effort on the script kiddie contingent's part. They're your most likely attacker anyway, and anyone who really wants in isn't going to be derailed by anything but inplugging the machine and turning it off. Jamie Bowden -- "It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold" Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur" Iain Bowen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 10: 2:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.webmonster.de (datasink.webmonster.de [194.162.162.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7A8A137B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:02:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karsten@rohrbach.de) Received: (qmail 55892 invoked by uid 1000); 11 Jul 2001 17:02:47 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:02:47 +0200 From: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" To: Terry Lambert Cc: Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getting rid of sysinstall - Was: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010711190247.D52923@mail.webmonster.de> Mail-Followup-To: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" , Terry Lambert , Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="fOHHtNG4YXGJ0yqR" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 01:29:23PM -0700 X-Arbitrary-Number-Of-The-Day: 42 X-URL: http://www.webmonster.de/ X-Disclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my employer Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --fOHHtNG4YXGJ0yqR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Terry Lambert(tlambert2@mindspring.com)@2001.07.09 13:29:23 +0000: [...] > There are too many steps. >=20 > X11 is a distribution set, instead of a package. >=20 > Etc. (I could go on forever). > =2E..then let's wrap up a concept of a interpreter language driven installer. redhat does it in python since years, so could we... some rough and spontaneuos ideas: - stripped down python interpreter runs as init - class framework for 'plugin modules' such as postinst config,... - basic 'service' classes for abstraction of the ui, binary execution and fileio (for config files) - every class has properties which can be preloaded (=3Dunattended install functionality from 'recorded' install session or manually generated setup) - ability to run in 'expert' command line mode (ab)using interactive python, text ui, x gui/tk mode - after installing the base dist, we could import batteries included python libs from the userland for configuration/upgrade management and so on, perhaps stuff configuration metadata into xml and re-write it to the appropriate (maybe new/different) format -- oops, i said the x-word :-> - instrumentation to do 'the right thing' _or_ to be very talkative by message/dialog emission properties, severity levels -- we would need some kind of policy for that because of the multiple user interfaces - remote install dialog ui using ethernet as transport (yay!) would be a nice idea - making the base system consist of packages would raise the need for package db flagging of non-removable/mandatory pkgs - xf86 must become a package, yes ;-) IMHO it's a pain in the ass to upgrade xf86 without side effects when it was installed as tarball - with that step we also could package sendmail and bind out of the base system ;-) hint-hint - package signature verification would also be a nice thing to have, especially with signature fetching over the net so the scheme would boil down to something like this: [gui multiplexer]<--+-->[cli] ^ +-->[text ui] [cdboot/loader] | +-->[xf86 gui] | | +-->[remote ui] v | +-->[unattended] [kernel]->[python]->[rc-loader] | | | v v [messaging/core]<------+-->[config writers] ^ +-->[exec subsystem] | | ^ v | | [sig verifier]<->[dist source handling] | v ^ | [fdisk/disklabel/...] [cd mount]<---------+ | [hd mount]<---------+ +-->[upgrade subsys] [nfs mount]<---------+ +-->[package installer] [ftp/http fetcher]<---------+ =09 this in no way perfect, just some idea -- feel free to flame me if i missed the point, but don't rip out my intestines ;-) /k > -- Terry >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message --=20 > "The path of excess leads to the tower of wisdom." --W. Blake KR433/KR11-RIPE -- WebMonster Community Founder -- nGENn GmbH Senior Techie http://www.webmonster.de/ -- ftp://ftp.webmonster.de/ -- http://www.ngenn.n= et/ karsten&rohrbach.de -- alpha&ngenn.net -- alpha&scene.org -- catch@spam.de GnuPG 0x2964BF46 2001-03-15 42F9 9FFF 50D4 2F38 DBEE DF22 3340 4F4E 2964 B= F46 Please do not remove my address from To: and Cc: fields in mailing lists. 1= 0x --fOHHtNG4YXGJ0yqR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7TIa3M0BPTilkv0YRAsD2AKChZwWwXUQvrIq1HC5QVt0AllQJzwCgvslq ckDLJMXVlMJwkkon5wcoQow= =bcv8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --fOHHtNG4YXGJ0yqR-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 10:15:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.webmonster.de (datasink.webmonster.de [194.162.162.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B466637B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:15:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karsten@rohrbach.de) Received: (qmail 56342 invoked by uid 1000); 11 Jul 2001 17:15:30 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:15:30 +0200 From: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" To: Giorgos Keramidas Cc: tlambert2@mindspring.com, Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sysinstall - Was: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010711191530.F52923@mail.webmonster.de> Mail-Followup-To: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" , Giorgos Keramidas , tlambert2@mindspring.com, Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="u5E4XgoOPWr4PD9E" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr>; from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 05:13:44AM +0300 X-Arbitrary-Number-Of-The-Day: 42 X-URL: http://www.webmonster.de/ X-Disclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my employer Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --u5E4XgoOPWr4PD9E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Giorgos Keramidas(keramida@ceid.upatras.gr)@2001.07.10 05:13:44 +0000: > Terry Lambert writes: >=20 > > The base system is not registered into the packages > > system, because of sysinstall. >=20 > It's not installed from /usr/ports but from /usr/src. > I don't know if it's a good idea to have a huge > freebsd_base-5.0-current-20010624 in the packages list, or a zillion > freebsd_base-bin, freebsd_base-etc, etc. installed. this would be too rpm-ish ;-) then you would also catch the dependency problems with 'package foo needs bar2.0; baz4.3 provides bar1.5; need to upgrade baz* to baz4.4; baz4.4 depends on bar2.2; bar2.0 cannot be upgrade because of dependency loop; ...' >=20 > > There are a lot of navigational problems with the code; > > Eric Melville is addressing some of them. >=20 > This is true. >=20 > > The disk partitioning sucks. >=20 > This has worked for me without any problems, but you must have met some t= o say > that it sucks. Can you elaborate on this, instead of throwing a plain 's= ucks' > and hoping that we agree with you? for server installation it would be nifty to have percentual partition size templates and parameter presets for newfs. for the desktop arena we would need something like some buttons: 1) i want to wipe my harddisk and install 2) i want to install on a partition 3) i don't know what i am doing please stop >=20 > > The upgrade process should automatically discover the > > FS mount points. >=20 > Yep. Nice idea. Can we have a patch, please? >=20 > > It's too "chatty". >=20 > And this is too terse a complaint to have any meaning whatsoever. it lacks 'real' message/dialog filtering done with dialog properties >=20 > > The network setup should attempt to obtain a DHCP lease, > > without having to be told to do it, at least for initial > > install. >=20 > No, please don't. > I don't want sysinstall trying to play `smart' behind my back. >=20 > > X11 is a distribution set, instead of a package. >=20 > But... but... I did install only those parts of X11 that I wanted. > I'm not sure I understand this claim. upgrading xf86 is a pain in the ass on a production machine. first you remove all of x with the mtree files (that were not correct for some time) and then you install it from ports ;-) >=20 > > Etc. (I could go on forever). >=20 > Thank you for not doing so. obvious deficiencies of the system need to be addressed. /k --=20 > Vegetarians for oral sex -- "The only meat that's fit to eat" KR433/KR11-RIPE -- WebMonster Community Founder -- nGENn GmbH Senior Techie http://www.webmonster.de/ -- ftp://ftp.webmonster.de/ -- http://www.ngenn.n= et/ karsten&rohrbach.de -- alpha&ngenn.net -- alpha&scene.org -- catch@spam.de GnuPG 0x2964BF46 2001-03-15 42F9 9FFF 50D4 2F38 DBEE DF22 3340 4F4E 2964 B= F46 Please do not remove my address from To: and Cc: fields in mailing lists. 1= 0x --u5E4XgoOPWr4PD9E Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7TImxM0BPTilkv0YRAt42AJ9uRMTHFXXiV/R8My6aQx1ijdmepQCeNC5Q V7pMEDx4iKFzwoZrWn1MUl0= =d9OC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --u5E4XgoOPWr4PD9E-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 10:23: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.freebsd.org (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8C7D37B401; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:22:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.freebsd.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f6BHMUt21984; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:22:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: sheldonh@starjuice.net Cc: bmah@FreeBSD.ORG, bsddiy@163.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vfs.vmiodirenable undocumented In-Reply-To: <1183.994843284@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> References: <200107110124.f6B1Opv16887@intruder.bmah.org> <1183.994843284@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010711102230C.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:22:30 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 42 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Sheldon Hearn Subject: Re: vfs.vmiodirenable undocumented Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:21:24 +0200 > I'm very concerned with the fact that this style of response has become > commonly accepted within the FreeBSD community. I would have to disagree that this is an area of concern. Let's take it from the other perspective: There are a lot of clueless individuals out there who just don't understand the volunteer nature of open source and think it's fine to walk up and post criticisms on the bulletin board without any truly helpful suggestions, or to demand work of volunteers rather than offering to ASSIST them in their efforts. It happens all the time, and each time it does it serves to disillusion the volunteers just a little bit more as they wonder just why they're doing this for such an ungrateful pack of cretins. In such instances, I'd much rather have the volunteer vent a little steam and perhaps feel better rather than bottle it up until one day it just becomes all too much and they walk away from the project entirely. I'm not being alarmist or dramatic in painting that picture either because it's happened more times than I like to think about. It's also the case that people tend to only really learn lessons when they're hard lessons, and if getting a public spanking (albeit a mild one in this case) is what it takes to really drive the point home then I'll be the first to hand out paddles. Some people, like Mr Xu here, are even more resistant to clue transfer than most (just read the archives) and, if anything, Bruce was being rather admirably restrained with his response. In short, your approach may be fine one for conducting sensitivity training at the Oh Shamalu Spiritual Center, but I'm not sure it's appropriate here. This is the freebsd-hackers mailing list, and if you can't take a little engineering heat then this is probably the wrong place for you. Not everything in life needs to be "kinder and gentler", to borrow words from George Bush, and I suspect the folks who run police academies and military training programs would be the first to agree with me. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 11: 5: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B41D437B406 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:05:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f6BI4uY30719; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:04:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:04:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200107111804.f6BI4uY30719@earth.backplane.com> To: Thomas Moestl Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Paul Halliday Subject: Re: Can someone verify this? References: <3B4793CB.FDC5B64@penix.org> <20010710234545.A8799@crow.dom2ip.de> <3B4C0CC5.5A46CB45@penix.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :Thomas Moestl wrote: :> :> If it was an audio CD you were trying to mount: this is a known :> problem. The attached patch fixes it for me by disallowing reading of :... Thomas, that looks like a good thing to commit to me, are you going to commit it? Maybe also MFC it to stable? -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 11:24:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DD7C37B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:24:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Bsdguru@aol.com) Received: from Bsdguru@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id p.a3.188fa0a9 (4238); Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:24:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Bsdguru@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:24:11 EDT Subject: Re: Intel ISP1100 or similar 1U experience with 4.3 stable To: dave@hawk-systems.com (Dave VanAuken) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In a message dated 07/10/2001 11:54:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dg@root.com writes Its generally a bad idea to house a multi-processor system in a 1U enclosure, as there isnt enough cooling space and 3/4" fans are simply not powerful enough. Unless space is ridiculously scarce, you can get much better cooling and reliability with a 2U unit. B To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 11:30:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp-2.enteract.com (smtp-2.enteract.com [207.229.143.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5627437B409 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:30:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@tumbolia.com) Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (shell-1.enteract.com [207.229.143.40]) by smtp-2.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848235FEA; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:30:30 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:30:30 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt X-X-Sender: To: Bill Moran Cc: Wes Peters , Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <3B4C43A2.85516A24@iowna.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Bill Moran wrote: :Wes Peters wrote: :> Just because you don't see it doesn't make it a bad idea. Network admins :> begged for years for a centralized IP address space management server; :> now that they've been given one (that works, and is FREE) people like you :> bitch about it and won't use it. Feh. : :Are you saying you use DHCP for servers? If so, maybe I should shut up :and listen for a while because apparently there's something here I can :learn. I've been using it for client IP pools for years now, but not :for servers. Using DHCP for servers means it's much less work to renumber a network, change router addresses, DNS servers, and so on. Very useful if you've got a zillion machines. Change the settings, and as leases expire, the client servers get the new ones. david -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 11:35:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [206.40.252.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B439237B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:35:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6BIYrF64110; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:34:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:34:53 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: Bill Moran , Wes Peters , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Suggestions for sysinstall / disklabel Message-ID: <20010711113453.A63964@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> <3B4B65ED.452CDD5E@iowna.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from drosih@rpi.edu on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 05:47:26PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 05:47:26PM -0400, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > >+ Allow one to specify the partition letter, than assumeing `e'. > >+ Allow one to specify the ordering of partitions that will be written. > > Alpha users keep getting bit in the ass because sysinstall orders the > > swap partition at the begining of the disk vs. after /. One cannot > > tell which order the partitions will be written to disk. > > Hmm. Is it a different program on Alpha than i386? Same. > On i386, the > order on the disk seems to always be the order they were created > in disklabel (which might or might not match the order of the > partition letters...). Correct. The Alpha's root *must* be the first partition (starting at the "begining" of the disk). People often know how much swap they want, and take what is left for other things. So they allocate swap first. Sysinstall's disk editor gives no feedback on how it is going to lay out the disk. There have been numerious install failures reported to freebsd-alpha@ because of this. > On i386, I know know the program seems to want to futz with the > partition letters based on the name you give to the partition, which > is sometimes annoying. Agreed. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 11:47:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com [65.24.0.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2E5E37B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:47:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@iowna.com) Received: from iowna.com (dhcp065-024-023-038.columbus.rr.com [65.24.23.38]) by clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f6BIhoZ05093; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:43:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B4C9F21.88B95ECF@iowna.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:46:57 -0400 From: Bill Moran X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Scheidt Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Scheidt wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Bill Moran wrote: > > :Wes Peters wrote: > :> Just because you don't see it doesn't make it a bad idea. Network admins > :> begged for years for a centralized IP address space management server; > :> now that they've been given one (that works, and is FREE) people like you > :> bitch about it and won't use it. Feh. > : > :Are you saying you use DHCP for servers? If so, maybe I should shut up > :and listen for a while because apparently there's something here I can > :learn. I've been using it for client IP pools for years now, but not > :for servers. > > Using DHCP for servers means it's much less work to renumber a network, > change router addresses, DNS servers, and so on. Very useful if you've got > a zillion machines. Change the settings, and as leases expire, the client > servers get the new ones. Hmmm ... here I can see it. I guess this is partly my lack of knowledge of large installations. The largest facility I consult for has 4 servers. That's hardly a chore to change if you want to change the IP pool. Change the DHCP for the clients and change 4 network configs. Hrmmm ... I appear to be doing a good job of exposing where my experience is lacking this week ... -Bill -- If a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, then what can I get for two hands in the bush? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 11:52:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from www.kozubik.com (www.kozubik.com [166.90.8.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAEC137B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:52:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Received: from localhost (john@localhost) by www.kozubik.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6BIkv757826; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:47:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:46:57 -0700 (PDT) From: John Kozubik To: Leo Bicknell Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, joelh@gnu.org Subject: Re: PR bin/7265 - ln In-Reply-To: <20010711115929.G63273@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think this sounds reasonable. If I may, I would suggest two small changes: "/sys: Symbolic Link destination src/sys does not exist" I feel that the actual words "symbolic link" are more appropriate than "SymLink", but more importantly, as we are striving for clarity in the error, the error can designate where the link attempted to incorrectly send the user. ----- John Kozubik - john@kozubik.com - http://www.kozubik.com On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Leo Bicknell wrote: > > I'm going to dig up and old can of worms here, but I think I have > something new to offer that might fix it. This is in reference to > pr bin/7265, which can be found at: > > http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=bin%2F7265 > > >From the how to repeat section, probably all you need to know: > > # cd /usr > # ln -s src/sys /sys > # cd /sys > /sys: No such file or directory. > > (Emit the anguished wails of a tired sysadmin who thinks he's just > lost his kernel source. Repeating this last step is optional.) > > There was a lot of talk about adding flags to ln to fix this problem > to warn when the destination of a link doesn't exist and the like. > Rightfully so, many worried that adding flags would cause issues > (eg with POSIX options later) or that making ln emit messages in this > case might break shell scripts. I think these are all valid points > to one degree or another. > > But then it hit me, the problem isn't with ln. My origional discussion > is in the pr, but here's an abbreviated version. There is no error > in linking to a non-existing (at the time of link) file/directory. The > ln should not produce an error, and warnings are, in general, frowned > upon. However, there is very much an error from cd, and error that > is quite poorly reported. > > cd gets this partically right, if you try to cd to an actual file, it > produces a different error message: > > > touch file > > cd file > file: Not a directory. > > Quite clear. > > So, it would appear that the error "No such file or directory" really > means one of two things (that I've come up with so far, can we think > of more cases): > > "No such directory." > "Symlink destination does not exist." > > Let's consider my hypothetical patched cd (which means patched shells, > because it's a builtin): > > # cd /usr > # ln -s src/sys /sys > # cd /sys > /sys: Symlink destination does not exist. > > I think our sysadmin would not be wailing, or at least not so much in > that this error points you right where to look to either verify your > files are still there, or verify the link is wrong. > > Since there is no change to ln, I don't think anyone can object that > we're going to break scripts using ln. :-) The change to cd is only > in the text of the error message, which is made more specific. I > suppose someone could argue that a script uses that error message, > but I highly doubt it as the script should be using the return value > from cd, which would be unchanged. I also think it's hard to argue > that error messages that better pinpoint the problem are a bad thing. > > The biggest drawback to this solution is that it will require shells > to be changed, since as I mentioned before cd is a builtin. I still > think that's cleaner than polluting ln, and is also a superior fix > to the problem. > > Consider the can of worms open, who wants to bite? :-) > > -- > Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org > Systems Engineer - Internetworking Engineer - CCIE 3440 > Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 12: 6:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [194.221.183.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E47BA37B407 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:06:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tmoestl@gmx.net) Received: (qmail 8664 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jul 2001 19:06:17 -0000 Received: from pc19ebf4b.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO forge.local) (193.158.191.75) by mail.gmx.net (mp008-rz3) with SMTP; 11 Jul 2001 19:06:17 -0000 Received: from tmm by forge.local with local (Exim 3.30 #1) id 15KPJQ-0000oD-00; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 21:06:16 +0200 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 21:06:16 +0200 From: Thomas Moestl To: Matt Dillon Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Paul Halliday Subject: Re: Can someone verify this? Message-ID: <20010711210615.A2266@crow.dom2ip.de> Mail-Followup-To: Thomas Moestl , Matt Dillon , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Paul Halliday References: <3B4793CB.FDC5B64@penix.org> <20010710234545.A8799@crow.dom2ip.de> <3B4C0CC5.5A46CB45@penix.org> <200107111804.f6BI4uY30719@earth.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200107111804.f6BI4uY30719@earth.backplane.com>; from dillon@earth.backplane.com on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 11:04:56AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 2001/07/11 at 11:04:56 -0700, Matt Dillon wrote: > > : > :Thomas Moestl wrote: > :> > :> If it was an audio CD you were trying to mount: this is a known > :> problem. The attached patch fixes it for me by disallowing reading of > :... > > Thomas, that looks like a good thing to commit to me, are you going > to commit it? Maybe also MFC it to stable? I've passed it to sos for review, since it's his driver. If he has no objections, I intend to commit it and MFC it later. - thomas To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 12:29:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bdr-xcon.matchlogic.com (mail.matchlogic.com [205.216.147.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46B5C37B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:29:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crandall@matchlogic.com) Received: by mail.matchlogic.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <3VGR4YR6>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:13:44 -0600 Message-ID: <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B30130828F0E2@bdr-xcln.corp.matchlogic.com> From: Charles Randall To: "'Bsdguru@aol.com'" , dave@hawk-systems.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Intel ISP1100 or similar 1U experience with 4.3 stable Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:12:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Don't know how this ended up on -hackers, but... The 1U server market is indeed hot (pun intended). Take a look at the new 1400 series from iXsystems (www.ixsystems.net -- formerly BSDi, formerly Telenet) and the Dell 1550. I've tested both systems and was impressed by both. If you're buying more than a few machines, Dell has some very aggressive pricing. Charles -----Original Message----- From: Bsdguru@aol.com [mailto:Bsdguru@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 12:24 PM To: dave@hawk-systems.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intel ISP1100 or similar 1U experience with 4.3 stable In a message dated 07/10/2001 11:54:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dg@root.com writes Its generally a bad idea to house a multi-processor system in a 1U enclosure, as there isnt enough cooling space and 3/4" fans are simply not powerful enough. Unless space is ridiculously scarce, you can get much better cooling and reliability with a 2U unit. B To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 12:31:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45C5B37B409 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:31:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dg@root.com) Received: (from dg@localhost) by root.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f6BJKVj39941; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:20:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dg) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:20:31 -0700 From: David Greenman To: Bsdguru@aol.com Cc: Dave VanAuken , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intel ISP1100 or similar 1U experience with 4.3 stable Message-ID: <20010711122031.T89686@nexus.root.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from Bsdguru@aol.com on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 02:24:11PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >In a message dated 07/10/2001 11:54:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dg@root.com >writes > >Its generally a bad idea to house a multi-processor system in a 1U enclosure, >as there isnt enough cooling space and 3/4" fans are simply not powerful >enough. Unless space is ridiculously scarce, you can get much better cooling >and reliability with a 2U unit. In fact there are other considerations as well, namely the power supply, which is typically not all that beefy in 1U systems. For both of these reasons and others, our current 1U offering, although using an MP motherboard, can only be ordered with one CPU. We've recently improved the cooling in our 1U server with very powerful 40mm fans that will cool an MP system more than adequately, but the power supply issue still remains. We should have a solution for that as well in a few weeks. -DG David Greenman Co-founder, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org President, TeraSolutions, Inc. - http://www.terasolutions.com Pave the road of life with opportunities. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 12:48:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (dhcp44-21.dis.org [216.240.44.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD89C37B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:48:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6BK2Ce01809; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:02:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200107112002.f6BK2Ce01809@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: David Greenman Cc: Bsdguru@aol.com, Dave VanAuken , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intel ISP1100 or similar 1U experience with 4.3 stable In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:20:31 PDT." <20010711122031.T89686@nexus.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:02:12 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In fact there are other considerations as well, namely the power supply, > which is typically not all that beefy in 1U systems. For both of these > reasons and others, our current 1U offering, although using an MP motherboard > , > can only be ordered with one CPU. We've recently improved the cooling in > our 1U server with very powerful 40mm fans that will cool an MP system > more than adequately, but the power supply issue still remains. We should > have a solution for that as well in a few weeks. This is where the larger vendors have a few advantages, since they typically get to spec their own power supplies, build custom fan assemblies, etc. eg. the Compaq DL360 has a large, powerful radial blower rather than your average axial fan set; the IBM e330 has a monster power supply, &c. &c. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 14:13:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nimitz.packetdesign.com (dns.packetdesign.com [65.192.41.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B63D37B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:13:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmah@packetdesign.com) Received: (from bmah@localhost) by nimitz.packetdesign.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f6BLDgQ81686; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:13:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmah) Message-Id: <200107112113.f6BLDgQ81686@nimitz.packetdesign.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/09/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: bmah@packetdesign.com Subject: Development for older FreeBSD releases From: bmah@packetdesign.com (Bruce A. Mah) Reply-To: bmah@packetdesign.com X-Face: g~c`.{#4q0"(V*b#g[i~rXgm*w;:nMfz%_RZLma)UgGN&=j`5vXoU^@n5v4:OO)c["!w)nD/!!~e4Sj7LiT'6*wZ83454H""lb{CC%T37O!!'S$S&D}sem7I[A 2V%N&+ X-Image-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/Images/bmah-cisco-small.gif X-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_410400216P"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:13:36 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --==_Exmh_410400216P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi fellow -hackers-- I need to make an executable to run on an i386 box running FreeBSD 2.2.X machine. Unfortunately, it has no compiler installed on it. All of the computers I have at my disposal currently are i386s running 4-STABLE or 5-CURRENT. Upgrading the target machine is not an option. Is it even possible to try doing a "cross-compile" to such an old version of FreeBSD? (I'm primarily thinking of a.out vs. ELF issues...a quick experiment already informed me that I'm lacking an appropriate crt0.o.) Or am I better off trying somehow to build up a 2.2.X machine to do development on? Thanks for any insights... Bruce. --==_Exmh_410400216P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: Exmh version 2.3.1+ 05/14/2001 iD8DBQE7TMGA2MoxcVugUsMRAqzOAJ9S1o1wE9ZkNOGf0d2+Lzv7QndEnwCdH/NW nBG6U6zawgyv7Y0lAfWwTjo= =FofO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_410400216P-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 14:23: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from maxim.gbch.net (gw.gbch.net [203.24.22.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 41DC237B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:22:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjb@gbch.net) Received: (qmail 58247 invoked by uid 1001); 12 Jul 2001 07:22:56 +1000 Message-ID: X-Posted-By: GJB-Post 2.21 16-Jun-2001 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386 X-Location: Brisbane, Australia; 27.49841S 152.98439E X-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb.html X-Image-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/gjb-auug048.gif X-GPG-Fingerprint: EBB2 2A92 A79D 1533 AC00 3C46 5D83 B6FB 4B04 B7D6 X-PGP-Public-Keys: http://www.gbch.net/keys.html Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 07:22:55 +1000 From: Greg Black To: bmah@packetdesign.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Development for older FreeBSD releases References: <200107112113.f6BLDgQ81686@nimitz.packetdesign.com> In-reply-to: <200107112113.f6BLDgQ81686@nimitz.packetdesign.com> of Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:13:36 MST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bruce A. Mah wrote: | I need to make an executable to run on an i386 box running FreeBSD 2.2.X | machine. Unfortunately, it has no compiler installed on it. All of the | computers I have at my disposal currently are i386s running 4-STABLE or | 5-CURRENT. Upgrading the target machine is not an option. | | Is it even possible to try doing a "cross-compile" to such an old | version of FreeBSD? (I'm primarily thinking of a.out vs. ELF issues...a | quick experiment already informed me that I'm lacking an appropriate | crt0.o.) | | Or am I better off trying somehow to build up a 2.2.X machine to do | development on? Building a new development box from a set of 2.2.8 CDs would certainly be a simple and guaranteed method if that's an option for you. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 14:23:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp-out.hamburg.pop.de (smtp-out.hamburg.pop.de [195.222.210.86]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA1B637B406 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:23:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ) Received: from mail.hamburg.pop.de ([193.98.9.7] helo=mail.provi.de) by smtp-out.hamburg.pop.de with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15KRSu-00058s-00 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:24:12 +0200 Received: from daemon by mail.provi.de with local (Exim 3.20 #2) id 15KRS5-0003EE-00 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:23:21 +0200 From: To: Subject: mail failed, returning to sender X-No-Resend: True Message-Id: Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:23:21 +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG |------------------------- Message log follows: -----------------------| | no valid recipients were found for this message | |----------------------------------------------------------------------| | t.schmeissel@mail.hh.provi.de - unknown user |----------------------------------------------------------------------| German translation: Sie haben Ihre eMail an die Adresse "t.schmeissel@mail.hh.provi.de" gerichtet. Der hintere Teil der Adresse ("Domain"), "@mail.hh.provi.de", ist gueltig, der Benutzernamen jedoch nicht. Ueberpruefen Sie bitte insbesondere diesen Teil der eMail-Adresse! Sie erhalten im Anhang die ersten zehn Zeilen Ihrer Original-eMail zurueck. Mit freundlichen Gruessen, Point of Presence GmbH, Hamburg ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers-digest@freebsd.org Wed Jul 11 23:23:21 2001 Return-path: Envelope-to: t.schmeissel@mail.hh.provi.de Delivery-date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:23:21 +0200 Received: from mx2.freebsd.org ([216.136.204.119]) by mail.provi.de with smtp (Exim 3.20 #2) id 15KRS4-0003E2-00 for t.schmeissel@mail.hh.provi.de; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:23:20 +0200 Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D02BB558ED; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:23:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers-digest@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 538) id CE79237B401; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:23:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B5A2C2E81CA; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:23:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers-digest) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:23:07 -0700 From: owner-freebsd-hackers-digest@FreeBSD.ORG (freebsd-hackers-digest) To: freebsd-hackers-digest@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: freebsd-hackers-digest V5 #176 Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers-digest@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:23:07 -0700 (PDT) freebsd-hackers-digest Wednesday, July 11 2001 Volume 05 : Number 176 In this issue: mail failed, returning to sender Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Re: Suggestions for sysinstall / disklabel Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 14:33: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nimitz.packetdesign.com (dns.packetdesign.com [65.192.41.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2093B37B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:32:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmah@packetdesign.com) Received: (from bmah@localhost) by nimitz.packetdesign.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f6BLWNb81831; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:32:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmah) Message-Id: <200107112132.f6BLWNb81831@nimitz.packetdesign.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/09/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Greg Black Cc: bmah@packetdesign.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Development for older FreeBSD releases In-Reply-To: References: <200107112113.f6BLDgQ81686@nimitz.packetdesign.com> Comments: In-reply-to Greg Black message dated "Thu, 12 Jul 2001 07:22:55 +1000." From: bmah@packetdesign.com (Bruce A. Mah) Reply-To: bmah@packetdesign.com X-Face: g~c`.{#4q0"(V*b#g[i~rXgm*w;:nMfz%_RZLma)UgGN&=j`5vXoU^@n5v4:OO)c["!w)nD/!!~e4Sj7LiT'6*wZ83454H""lb{CC%T37O!!'S$S&D}sem7I[A 2V%N&+ X-Image-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/Images/bmah-cisco-small.gif X-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_563470353P"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:32:18 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --==_Exmh_563470353P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If memory serves me right, Greg Black wrote: > Building a new development box from a set of 2.2.8 CDs would > certainly be a simple and guaranteed method if that's an option > for you. Unfortunately it's not guaranteed...a lot of new hardware has been released since December 1998 (the date of 2.2.8-RELEASE). :-p Thanks, Bruce. PS. In case anyone was wondering, this wasn't my idea. --==_Exmh_563470353P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: Exmh version 2.3.1+ 05/14/2001 iD8DBQE7TMXh2MoxcVugUsMRAjByAJ994EF0N+KRS+k4JNM4YP1Vhy/TFwCg/x2X npiC3sJ9N6F8ow3/zYW8tz8= =zVvY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_563470353P-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 14:41:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com [65.24.0.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0AD637B406 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:41:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@iowna.com) Received: from iowna.com (dhcp065-024-023-038.columbus.rr.com [65.24.23.38]) by clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f6BLbiZ06195 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:37:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B4CC7E4.BA736DB@iowna.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:40:52 -0400 From: Bill Moran X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mail failed, returning to sender References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has anyone else tried to contact the postmaster of this domain concerning this? If not, I'm willing to (but I don't see any need to spam him with 100 messages) -Bill daemon@provi.de wrote: > > |------------------------- Message log follows: -----------------------| > | no valid recipients were found for this message | > |----------------------------------------------------------------------| > | t.schmeissel@mail.hh.provi.de - unknown user > |----------------------------------------------------------------------| > German translation: > Sie haben Ihre eMail an die Adresse "t.schmeissel@mail.hh.provi.de" gerichtet. > Der hintere Teil der Adresse ("Domain"), "@mail.hh.provi.de", ist gueltig, > der Benutzernamen jedoch nicht. > Ueberpruefen Sie bitte insbesondere diesen Teil der eMail-Adresse! > > Sie erhalten im Anhang die ersten zehn Zeilen Ihrer Original-eMail zurueck. > > Mit freundlichen Gruessen, > > Point of Presence GmbH, Hamburg > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >From owner-freebsd-hackers-digest@freebsd.org Wed Jul 11 23:23:21 2001 > Return-path: > Envelope-to: t.schmeissel@mail.hh.provi.de > Delivery-date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:23:21 +0200 > Received: from mx2.freebsd.org ([216.136.204.119]) > by mail.provi.de with smtp (Exim 3.20 #2) > id 15KRS4-0003E2-00 > for t.schmeissel@mail.hh.provi.de; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:23:20 +0200 > Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) > by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP > id D02BB558ED; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:23:07 -0700 (PDT) > (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers-digest@FreeBSD.ORG) > Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 538) > id CE79237B401; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:23:07 -0700 (PDT) > Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP > id B5A2C2E81CA; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:23:07 -0700 (PDT) > (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers-digest) > Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:23:07 -0700 > From: owner-freebsd-hackers-digest@FreeBSD.ORG (freebsd-hackers-digest) > To: freebsd-hackers-digest@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: freebsd-hackers-digest V5 #176 > Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers-digest@FreeBSD.ORG > Precedence: bulk > Message-ID: > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:23:07 -0700 (PDT) > > freebsd-hackers-digest Wednesday, July 11 2001 Volume 05 : Number 176 > > In this issue: > mail failed, returning to sender > Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral > Re: Suggestions for sysinstall / disklabel > Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- If a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, then what can I get for two hands in the bush? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 15:17:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mighty.grot.org (mighty.grot.org [216.15.97.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76FDA37B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:17:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aditya@grot.org) Received: by mighty.grot.org (Postfix, from userid 515) id 87C115DA8; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:17:45 -0700 From: "R.P. Aditya" To: crandall@matchlogic.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intel ISP1100 or similar 1U experience with 4.3 stable Message-ID: <20010711151745.B12458@mighty.grot.org> Reply-To: "R.P. Aditya" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-PGP-Key: http://www.grot.org/pubkey.asc X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x6405D8D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Take a look at the new 1400 series from iXsystems (www.ixsystems.net -- > formerly BSDi, formerly Telenet) and the Dell 1550. I've tested both systems > and was impressed by both. If you're buying more than a few machines, Dell > has some very aggressive pricing. What I'd like to see is a box like the Sun Netra x1 http://www.sun.com/products-n-solutions/hw/networking/netrax/ that I can run FreeBSD on -- - single PII 233 - 1U (compact) 19" rack-mountable - no video, just RJ-45 RS232 port - 2 onboard 10/100 ethernets - 1 IDE drive is fine - 256MB of RAM for $995. I've even (*gasp*) considered buying the Netra x1 because I can't find a compact 1U FreeBSD for $995 with the remote, lights-out management type features this thing has. Adi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 15:23: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nerd.geekythings.com (nerd.geekythings.com [204.138.241.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EE9737B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:23:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marc@geekythings.com) Received: from localhost (marc@localhost) by nerd.geekythings.com (8.11.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id f6BMMk181617; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:22:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:22:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc X-Sender: marc@localhost To: "R.P. Aditya" Cc: crandall@matchlogic.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel ISP1100 or similar 1U experience with 4.3 stable In-Reply-To: <20010711151745.B12458@mighty.grot.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have a couple of Sun X1s...and they are indeed nice little units, especially given the price. The Appro 1124 is a nice box...although it's more expensive than the Sun box. It's a nice 1U chasssis with four (4!) hot-swap drive bays and the Tyan Athlon MP motherboard. http://www.appro.com/1124/index.html -marc On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, R.P. Aditya wrote: > > Take a look at the new 1400 series from iXsystems (www.ixsystems.net -- > > formerly BSDi, formerly Telenet) and the Dell 1550. I've tested both systems > > and was impressed by both. If you're buying more than a few machines, Dell > > has some very aggressive pricing. > > What I'd like to see is a box like the Sun Netra x1 > > http://www.sun.com/products-n-solutions/hw/networking/netrax/ > > that I can run FreeBSD on -- > > - single PII 233 > - 1U (compact) 19" rack-mountable > - no video, just RJ-45 RS232 port > - 2 onboard 10/100 ethernets > - 1 IDE drive is fine > - 256MB of RAM > > for $995. > > I've even (*gasp*) considered buying the Netra x1 because I can't find a > compact 1U FreeBSD for $995 with the remote, lights-out management type > features this thing has. > > Adi > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 15:28:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC46637B406 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:28:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (InterJet.elischer.org [192.168.1.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA60390; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:04:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: "Bruce A. Mah" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Development for older FreeBSD releases In-Reply-To: <200107112113.f6BLDgQ81686@nimitz.packetdesign.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Get teh 'bin' distribution from a 2.2 CD (or even possibly still online somewhere..) unpack it on a machine.... chroot into it... all binaries shuold still work except for 'ps' etc. On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Bruce A. Mah wrote: > Hi fellow -hackers-- > > I need to make an executable to run on an i386 box running FreeBSD 2.2.X > machine. Unfortunately, it has no compiler installed on it. All of the > computers I have at my disposal currently are i386s running 4-STABLE or > 5-CURRENT. Upgrading the target machine is not an option. > > Is it even possible to try doing a "cross-compile" to such an old > version of FreeBSD? (I'm primarily thinking of a.out vs. ELF issues...a > quick experiment already informed me that I'm lacking an appropriate > crt0.o.) > > Or am I better off trying somehow to build up a 2.2.X machine to do > development on? > > Thanks for any insights... > > Bruce. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 15:30:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from netau1.alcanet.com.au (ntp.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDED537B406 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:30:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremyp@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au) Received: from mfg1.cim.alcatel.com.au (mfg1.cim.alcatel.com.au [139.188.23.1]) by netau1.alcanet.com.au (8.9.3 (PHNE_22672)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18968; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 08:30:02 +1000 (EST) Received: from gsmx07.alcatel.com.au by cim.alcatel.com.au (PMDF V5.2-32 #37640) with ESMTP id <01K5U5B37QWWVLX0PX@cim.alcatel.com.au>; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 08:30:00 +1000 Received: (from jeremyp@localhost) by gsmx07.alcatel.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f6BMTxd46666; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 08:29:59 +1000 (EST envelope-from jeremyp) Content-return: prohibited Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 08:29:59 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: Development for older FreeBSD releases To: "Bruce A. Mah" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <20010712082959.B506@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:13:36 -0700, bmah@packetdesign.com (Bruce A. Mah) wrote: >I need to make an executable to run on an i386 box running FreeBSD 2.2.X >machine. Unfortunately, it has no compiler installed on it. ... >Is it even possible to try doing a "cross-compile" to such an old >version of FreeBSD? (I'm primarily thinking of a.out vs. ELF issues...a >quick experiment already informed me that I'm lacking an appropriate >crt0.o.) At least the later 2.2.x kernels can run ELF executables. I'm not sure when ELF was added, but it was before 2.2.5. I can build a trivial[1] static executable using the -CURRENT toolchain and run it on a 2.2.5 machine. I can't quickly test a dynamic executable (I'd need to copy the ELF loader and shared libraries onto my 2.2.5 system). >Or am I better off trying somehow to build up a 2.2.X machine to do >development on? It is possible to do a buildworld of RELENG_2_2 on a -CURRENT system when chroot'd into a 2.2.5 userland. (Unfortunately, this won't help you since you need the 2.2.x compiler). About 6 months ago, I tried and failed to get a RELENG_2_2 buildworld to work using the -CURRENT toolchain, though it should be possible to build the 2.2.x compiler on -CURRENT. As Greg Black stated, your easiest option would be to use a 2.2.x CD-ROM. If you don't have the CD-ROM's and are just missing the compiler, I'd be happy to e-mail you a copy of cc, cc1, as and ld for any 2.2.x-RELEASE. [1] main() { printf("Hello World\n"); }. Non-trivial programs will run into syscall incompatibilities - the most obvious being the signal() changes just under 2 years ago. Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 15:32:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mighty.grot.org (mighty.grot.org [216.15.97.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0882037B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:32:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aditya@grot.org) Received: by mighty.grot.org (Postfix, from userid 515) id 84ABA5DA8; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:32:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:32:13 -0700 From: "R.P. Aditya" To: Marc Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel ISP1100 or similar 1U experience with 4.3 stable Message-ID: <20010711153213.A13021@mighty.grot.org> Reply-To: "R.P. Aditya" References: <20010711151745.B12458@mighty.grot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from marc@geekythings.com on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 06:22:45PM -0400 X-PGP-Key: http://www.grot.org/pubkey.asc X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x6405D8D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 06:22:45PM -0400, Marc wrote: > I have a couple of Sun X1s...and they are indeed nice little units, > especially given the price. The only negative thing I've heard about them is that they are loud...comments? > The Appro 1124 is a nice box...although it's more expensive than the Sun > box. It's a nice 1U chasssis with four (4!) hot-swap drive bays and the > Tyan Athlon MP motherboard. http://www.appro.com/1124/index.html Thanks for the pointer, however I'm looking for something smaller -- I'd have to mount the Appro 1124 in a four-post rack or mid-mount at best, but the Netra x1 can be front mounted. What's more, the Appro's BIOS doesn't look like it can redirect the output to only the serial port. Power-hungry California likes small, cheap boxes which don't need video cards and lots of drives... Adi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 15:39:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nerd.geekythings.com (nerd.geekythings.com [204.138.241.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9018A37B409 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:39:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marc@geekythings.com) Received: from localhost (marc@localhost) by nerd.geekythings.com (8.11.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id f6BMdUD81703; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:39:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:39:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc X-Sender: marc@localhost To: "R.P. Aditya" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel ISP1100 or similar 1U experience with 4.3 stable In-Reply-To: <20010711153213.A13021@mighty.grot.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, R.P. Aditya wrote: > On Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 06:22:45PM -0400, Marc wrote: > > I have a couple of Sun X1s...and they are indeed nice little units, > > especially given the price. > > The only negative thing I've heard about them is that they are > loud...comments? Haven't really noticed that. They're quite quiet compared to the IBM H80s and p-Series 660s they're next to!!! > > The Appro 1124 is a nice box...although it's more expensive than the Sun > > box. It's a nice 1U chasssis with four (4!) hot-swap drive bays and the > > Tyan Athlon MP motherboard. http://www.appro.com/1124/index.html > > Thanks for the pointer, however I'm looking for something smaller -- I'd have > to mount the Appro 1124 in a four-post rack or mid-mount at best, but the > Netra x1 can be front mounted. What's more, the Appro's BIOS doesn't look > like it can redirect the output to only the serial port. This is what we're doing with the Linux BIOS project (serial BIOS control). Any of the FreeBSD's interested in such projects or getting Linux BIOS to boot FreeBSD (*shudder*)?! -marc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 15:48:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC67237B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:48:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (InterJet.elischer.org [192.168.1.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA60495; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:33:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: "R.P. Aditya" Cc: crandall@matchlogic.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intel ISP1100 or similar 1U experience with 4.3 stable In-Reply-To: <20010711151745.B12458@mighty.grot.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just got a very nice 1U rackmount system PIII CPU: Pentium III/Pentium III Xeon/Celeron (863.87-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x68a Stepping = 10 Features=0x383f9ff real memory = 267124736 (260864K bytes) 9GB disk Intel Motherboard with 100Mb enet built in 4 USB ports, video built in. for about $1100 (Actually I got 4 of them, with an extra 100Mb ethernet card in each included in that price (and rails) and cdrom (no floppy) contact address available if asked.. (in Fremont CA) On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, R.P. Aditya wrote: > > Take a look at the new 1400 series from iXsystems (www.ixsystems.net -- > > formerly BSDi, formerly Telenet) and the Dell 1550. I've tested both systems > > and was impressed by both. If you're buying more than a few machines, Dell > > has some very aggressive pricing. > > What I'd like to see is a box like the Sun Netra x1 > > http://www.sun.com/products-n-solutions/hw/networking/netrax/ > > that I can run FreeBSD on -- > > - single PII 233 > - 1U (compact) 19" rack-mountable > - no video, just RJ-45 RS232 port > - 2 onboard 10/100 ethernets > - 1 IDE drive is fine > - 256MB of RAM > > for $995. > > I've even (*gasp*) considered buying the Netra x1 because I can't find a > compact 1U FreeBSD for $995 with the remote, lights-out management type > features this thing has. > > Adi > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 16: 1:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.volant.org (dickson.phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 598FA37B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:01:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from patl@phoenix.volant.org) Received: from mccaffrey.phoenix.volant.org ([205.179.79.75]) by phoenix.volant.org with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #8) id 15KSyj-0005PL-00; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:01:09 -0700 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:01:06 -0700 From: PM Lashley To: "R.P. Aditya" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel ISP1100 or similar 1U experience with 4.3 stable Message-ID: <321280000.994892466@mccaffrey.phoenix.volant.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.1.0b2 (Linux/x86 Demo) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="==========2279407794==========" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --==========2279407794========== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --On Wednesday, July 11, 2001 15:32:13 -0700 "R.P. Aditya"=20 wrote: > On Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 06:22:45PM -0400, Marc wrote: >> I have a couple of Sun X1s...and they are indeed nice little units, >> especially given the price. > > The only negative thing I've heard about them is that they are > loud...comments? They are awfully nice little boxes; but there is one other flaw - there's a bug in Solaris 8 with respect to clock management on the X1 and Blade boxes. Even with (x)ntpd running, the system clock will occasionally (on the order of once or twice a day) jump by 20 or more seconds out of sync; and stay that way for a random time period. (One company I work with has a farm of 30 X1s and a distributed app where time synconization is = critical. Their boxes usually stay out of sync for about 5 to 20 minutes before ntpd slams them back where they belong.) (No, it isn't a configuration problem or lack of system patch. Sun are apparently aware of the problem and working on a patch upgrade.) Oh, and you have to make sure your X1 farm is in a properly air-conditioned environment; otherwise they tend to start to overheat and automatically = shut themselves down. (I would expect the same requirement of any equivalently powerful 1U box...) -Pat GnuPG/PGP key 9DC60D6CB0FCC2E3 at search.keyserver.net Fingerprint: A241 AADC 5AB8 1A36 08FF 7168 9DC6 0D6C B0FC C2E3 --==========2279407794========== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtM2rMACgkQncYNbLD8wuNoBACfcmLIoLGqjEEQxPmWG0bjqCcG G9UAmwfP/m4dGiWr7krtP6CsVuDRmti3 =Im48 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==========2279407794==========-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 16: 5:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78D5B37B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:05:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with UUCP id f6BN5Rw41445; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 00:05:27 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from [194.32.164.2] (eccles [194.32.164.2]) by seagoon.gid.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA80541; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:49:00 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200107112113.f6BLDgQ81686@nimitz.packetdesign.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:49:00 +0100 To: bmah@packetdesign.com From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Development for older FreeBSD releases Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, At 14:13 -0700 11/7/01, Bruce A. Mah wrote: >I need to make an executable to run on an i386 box running FreeBSD 2.2.X >machine. Unfortunately, it has no compiler installed on it.[etc] If it has a CD drive, mount up CD 2 of a 2.2.x distrib and drop in some links and/or PATH settings to get the compiler joined up. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 16: 7:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pianosa.catch22.org (pianosa.catch22.org [64.81.48.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5742137B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:07:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dbt@meat.net) Received: by pianosa.catch22.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 02BD117F9; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:07:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:07:08 -0700 From: David Terrell To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010711160708.I1282@pianosa.catch22.org> Reply-To: David Terrell References: <200107100332.UAA13663@usr01.primenet.com> <3B4B0856.A67F02FD@iowna.com> <3B4B3866.FBFF9A65@mindspring.com> <3B4B420C.1947DABE@iowna.com> <3B4C084E.2A14655A@softweyr.com> <3B4C43A2.85516A24@iowna.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <3B4C43A2.85516A24@iowna.com>; from wmoran@iowna.com on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 08:16:34AM -0400 X-Nethack: You feel like someone is making a pointless Nethack reference.--More-- X-Uptime: 4:05PM up 2 days, 22:04, 40 users, load averages: 0.26, 0.38, 0.34 X-Baby: Theodore Marvin Wolpinsky Terrell born 134 days, 1 hours, 19 minutes, 45 seconds ago Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 08:16:34AM -0400, Bill Moran wrote: > Are you saying you use DHCP for servers? If so, maybe I should shut > up and listen for a while because apparently there's something here > I can learn. I've been using it for client IP pools for years now, > but not for servers. When you're installing a large cluster of servers (dumb webserver frontends, anybody?) it can be very useful. Which has nothing to do with whether or not an installer should silently dhcp behind the user's back. It should not. -- David Terrell | If a crypto algorithm is cracked in a forest Nebcorp Prime Minister | and a tree falls on a mime, does microsoft dbt@meat.net | need to publish an advisory on it? http://wwn.nebcorp.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 16:11:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bdr-xcon.matchlogic.com (mail.matchlogic.com [205.216.147.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2AD737B405 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:11:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crandall@matchlogic.com) Received: by mail.matchlogic.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <3VGR49Q1>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:11:24 -0600 Message-ID: <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B30130828F0EA@bdr-xcln.corp.matchlogic.com> From: Charles Randall To: "'R.P. Aditya'" , Charles Randall Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Intel ISP1100 or similar 1U experience with 4.3 stable Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:09:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: R.P. Aditya [mailto:aditya@grot.org] > >What I'd like to see is a box like the Sun Netra x1 > > http://www.sun.com/products-n-solutions/hw/networking/netrax/ > >that I can run FreeBSD on -- > >- single PII 233 >- 1U (compact) 19" rack-mountable >- no video, just RJ-45 RS232 port >- 2 onboard 10/100 ethernets >- 1 IDE drive is fine >- 256MB of RAM > >for $995. Not an exact match, but try looking at the iXsystems 1250 for ~$1089 (probably cheaper if you buy more than one) at http://www.ixsystems.net/ -Charles To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 16:12:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from iatl0x01.coxmail.com (iatl0x02.coxmail.com [206.157.225.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B38437B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:12:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pherman@frenchfries.net) Received: from tick.sc.omation.com ([64.58.167.31]) by iatl0x01.coxmail.com (InterMail vK.4.03.02.00 201-232-124 license 85f4f10023be2bd3bce00b3a38363ea2) with ESMTP id <20010711231239.GQVS949.iatl0x01@tick.sc.omation.com> for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:12:39 -0400 Received: from tick.sc.omation.com (tick.sc.omation.com [10.0.0.253]) by tick.sc.omation.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6BLKbN05320 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:20:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pherman@frenchfries.net) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:20:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Herman To: Subject: [patch] error with newfs_msdos on DVD-RAM patch Message-ID: <20010711140555.K98886-100000@tick.sc.omation.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Howdy Hackers, I have a DVD-RAM: cd0 at sym0 bus 0 target 4 lun 0 cd0: Removable CD-ROM SCSI-4 device cd0: 10.000MB/s transfers (10.000MHz, offset 16) dd(1), newfs(8), mount(8) et. al. work just great on it, except for newfs_msdos(8): bash-2.05# newfs_msdos /dev/cd0c /dev/cd0c: 2232334 sectors in 1116167 FAT32 clusters (4096 bytes/cluster) bps=2048 spc=2 res=8 nft=2 mid=0xf0 spt=32 hds=64 hid=0 bsec=2236704 bspf=2181 rdcl=2 infs=1 bkbs=2 newfs_msdos: /dev/cd0c: Read-only file system which is an out and out lie, because the medium is indeed read-writable: bash-2.05# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/cd0c bs=2k count=1 1+0 records in 1+0 records out 2048 bytes transferred in 0.002359 secs (868152 bytes/sec) I looked to see what dd(1) was doing differently, and it seemed to turn off disklabels in order to write to the boot sector (see disklabel(5)). A patch against -STABLE follows, which fixes this for me. Would this patch be correct? I ask because dd(1) seems to go through a few more checks (if it's a tape, etc.) If it is deemed to be OK, could someone commit it please? -Paul. Index: newfs_msdos.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sbin/newfs_msdos/newfs_msdos.c,v retrieving revision 1.9.2.3 diff -u -r1.9.2.3 newfs_msdos.c --- newfs_msdos.c 2000/08/08 03:19:47 1.9.2.3 +++ newfs_msdos.c 2001/07/11 20:59:46 @@ -248,6 +248,7 @@ time_t now; u_int fat, bss, rds, cls, dir, lsn, x, x1, x2; int ch, fd, fd1; + const int one = 1; while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, opts)) != -1) switch (ch) { @@ -350,6 +351,7 @@ check_mounted(fname, sb.st_mode); if (!S_ISCHR(sb.st_mode)) errx(1, "%s is not a character device", fname); + (void)ioctl(fd, DIOCWLABEL, &one); memset(&bpb, 0, sizeof(bpb)); if (opt_f) { getstdfmt(opt_f, &bpb); To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 16:15:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.javanet.com (mail1.javanet.com [205.219.162.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75EB837B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:15:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kaworu@sektor7.ath.cx) Received: from wintermute.sekt7 (209-6-248-16.c3-0.lex-ubr1.sbo-lex.ma.cable.rcn.com [209.6.248.16]) by mail1.javanet.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA27608 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:16:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:16:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200107112316.TAA27608@mail1.javanet.com> From: Evan Sarmiento To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: pfind() question Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I have a small dilema. My module finds a pointer to a specific proc structure by calling pfind(pid). It then makes changes to that process structure and returns 0. However, when I try and use this seemingly simple code, it core dumps. This is the actual panic message: [teqnix](~/work/jailuser/current/src/sys/compile/KAWORU)%gdb -k kernel.debug /home/kaworu/vmcore.0 GNU gdb 4.18 Copyright 1998 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "i386-unknown-freebsd"... SMP 0 cpus IdlePTD 27757 initial pcb at 332d00 panic messages: --- dmesg: kvm_read: invalid address (c032a380) --- cannot read proc pointer at ff800004 And here's my code: int prfw_setflags(p, uap) struct proc *p; struct prfw_setflags_r *uap; { register struct proc *nproc; ... if (uap->id) { if((nproc = pfind(uap->id)) == NULL) return (0); } ... nproc->p_flag |= P_JAILED; } Am I allowed to change information in this proc structure? Thanks a lot, Evan Sarmiento To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 16:19: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mighty.grot.org (mighty.grot.org [216.15.97.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2375137B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:18:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aditya@grot.org) Received: by mighty.grot.org (Postfix, from userid 515) id 46F065DA9; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:18:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:18:58 -0700 From: "'R.P. Aditya'" To: Charles Randall Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intel ISP1100 or similar 1U experience with 4.3 stable Message-ID: <20010711161858.A14394@mighty.grot.org> Reply-To: "R.P. Aditya" References: <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B30130828F0EA@bdr-xcln.corp.matchlogic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B30130828F0EA@bdr-xcln.corp.matchlogic.com>; from crandall@matchlogic.com on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 05:09:50PM -0600 X-PGP-Key: http://www.grot.org/pubkey.asc X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x6405D8D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 05:09:50PM -0600, Charles Randall wrote: > Not an exact match, but try looking at the iXsystems 1250 for ~$1089 > (probably cheaper if you buy more than one) at http://www.ixsystems.net/ close, but it's still 19x19 vs. 17x13 for the Netra x1 which also takes regular IDE and SDRAM. If I can run NetBSD/Sparc on it, that might make it _almost_ perfect. Adi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 16:35:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-132.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C16C837B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:35:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8A44666D72; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:35:50 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: David Xu Cc: Sheldon Hearn , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: vfs.vmiodirenable undocumented Message-ID: <20010711163549.A90982@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <45971.994767699@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> <004901c109a6$e5805ae0$3601a8c0@xyf> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <004901c109a6$e5805ae0$3601a8c0@xyf>; from bsddiy@163.net on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 09:14:18AM +0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 09:14:18AM +0800, David Xu wrote: > but why hasn't a complete sysctl manual? > I see OpenBSD has a better sysctl manual, our sysctl(8) is too bad, > except the command usage info is useful, all left is garbage=20 > information and waste disk space. Submit something please..complaining just makes people annoyed with you. Kris --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7TOLVWry0BWjoQKURAjYiAJ4vtWXxBbfwOJ+zqpGVLPgPeeHiCQCg0upe OS99ipAusrLZOq3nrNTRbh0= =zdo7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 16:40: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-132.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B58E37B401; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:39:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2EE8A66DE0; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:39:56 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Sheldon Hearn Cc: bmah@FreeBSD.ORG, David Xu , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vfs.vmiodirenable undocumented Message-ID: <20010711163956.B90982@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <200107110124.f6B1Opv16887@intruder.bmah.org> <1183.994843284@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="FkmkrVfFsRoUs1wW" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <1183.994843284@axl.seasidesoftware.co.za>; from sheldonh@starjuice.net on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 11:21:24AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --FkmkrVfFsRoUs1wW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 11:21:24AM +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > I'm very concerned with the fact that this style of response has become > commonly accepted within the FreeBSD community. >=20 > Yes, we like patches. Yes, in this case the only reason we don't have > what David requested is that nobody's done the work. That's fine and worth remembering, but in some cases (such as this one) the person you're responding to has a long history of shouting on mailing lists about how the sky is falling and what is freebsd going to do about it? and the point needs to be reinforced a little stronger, because it's annoying everyone in sight that the aforementioned behaviour continues. Kris --FkmkrVfFsRoUs1wW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7TOPMWry0BWjoQKURAolsAJ0XSSI0X61eN/VGwOf5LCak7rD1+wCfS6ch LPURslCNBfV1gm8F+1+6zd0= =2XPj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --FkmkrVfFsRoUs1wW-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 16:44: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-132.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D401237B401; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:44:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B455A66DE0; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:44:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:44:00 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: Nik Clayton , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What makes it FreeBSD... Message-ID: <20010711164359.C90982@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20010709231626.B16152@clan.nothing-going-on.org> <200107111434.f6BEYBU36829@aslan.scsiguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="dkEUBIird37B8yKS" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200107111434.f6BEYBU36829@aslan.scsiguy.com>; from gibbs@scsiguy.com on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 08:34:11AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --dkEUBIird37B8yKS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 08:34:11AM -0600, Justin T. Gibbs wrote: > > > >It's reasonable to want to control what get's called FreeBSD. > > >=20 > Certainly. But I think it has to go beyond the installer. We > should define an environment that third party applications can > depend on being available in any installation that claims to > be FreeBSD. Without this, you have the same environement that > Linux does where third party apps are only qualified on distribution > U and X and have no hope of working on distributions Y and Z. Agreed. If it doesn't include the bits in the CVS source repo, modulo standard knobs available for cutting bits out or frobbing things around, then it's not FreeBSD but something else based on FreeBSD. Kris --dkEUBIird37B8yKS Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7TOS/Wry0BWjoQKURAvKWAKCKYSmDEPX4rOePaiaMTMeCYMcSUwCfWWrl 18SU83efJkEt9Uutzwki8gk= =vU28 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --dkEUBIird37B8yKS-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 16:50:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (ussenterprise.ufp.org [208.185.30.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 805E037B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:50:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bicknell@ussenterprise.ufp.org) Received: (from bicknell@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f6BNoLe92288 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:50:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bicknell) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:50:21 -0400 From: Leo Bicknell To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Network performance tuning. Message-ID: <20010711195021.A89324@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Organization: United Federation of Planets Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm going to bring up a topic that is sure to spark a great debate (read: flamefest), but I think it's an important issue. I've put my nomex on, let's see where this goes. I work for an international ISP. One of the customer complaints that has been on the rise is poor transfer rates across our network. When these come up, I'll often get called in to investigate. Over the past 2-3 years there has been an alarming increase in these complaints, and what disturbs me more is there is a simple solution 99% of the time - increase the TCP window size. Admittedly, my environment is a bit rare. This generally comes from colo customers who have to 100Mbps connected beefy servers on opposite coasts and can't understand why around 100k/sec is the best transfer rate they can get. If only we all had uncongested 100Mbps connections! Anyway, after having them up the window size on their machines, we can, if necessary, get them up to full 100Mbps across the country (I have logs of 9.98MB/sec FTP's coast to coast, if anyone wants them). So, I decided it was time to pick on FreeBSD. There are a number of reasons, chief among them is that virtually all other OS's now have larger default window sizes (and thus offer better performance) than FreeBSD out of the box. A secondary reason is that there are for the first time real end users, in the form of cable modem subscribers being hit by this same issue. Let's cut to the nitty gritty. This is all limited by the bandwidth * delay product, you can ship one window per rtt, and all that. If you don't understand this already go read about TCP then come back to this message. :-) FreeBSD's current default is 16384 bytes for the window, giving us the following limits on performance: Lan 1ms rtt = 15 MB/sec Coast to Coast 65ms rtt = 246 KB/sec Coast to Coast 85ms rtt = 188 KB/sec East Coast to Japan 155ms rtt = 103 KB/sec London to Japan 225ms rtt = 71 KB/sec T1 Satellite Link 500ms rtt = 32 KB/sec So, inside the US, the current window, 16k, lets a single connection just fill a T1, more or less. Note, these numbers assume optimal conditions, the you may see a degradation of up to 50% from those numbers when bandwidth is available, but there is high jitter, or packets are reordered. I wonder how many people are discontinuing DirectPC service because they can't get over 32 KB/sec downloads from their "T1 speed" satellite service. One of the first responses I often get to this issue is "so what, system administrators can increase the values". This is true, however I think it's time to address the defaults. There are a number of reasons for this: * BOTH ends of a TCP connection must be increased. All the server admins in the world can do this, but if end users don't it is useless. Conversely, end users who do this now won't see a speed up unless all the server admins change the settings. * FreeBSD is at the middle-bottom of the pack when it comes to defaults. http://www.psc.edu/networking/perf_tune.html * Users are slowly getting faster connections (T1 DSL, T1 Satellite, 10 Mbps cable modems) that need larger values. * The methods to get around this limit from a users point of view is to write custom apps that up the values using the socket calls. Hard coding window sizes into apps is a poor solution. Unfortunately this is where things get really interesting. If you want to say, support a 100Mbps transfer over a single TCP connection you need a buffer around 1 Meg. That's a lot of buffer. That said, most large servers, and even end user workstations could devote 1 Meg to the network if it ment 100Mbps performance. Sadly, this has unintended consequences. If you did down in the TCP stack, you find a problem. When a socket is created in FreeBSD (and I presume many other BSD's as well) it's buffer limits are set (soreserve). The behavior today is to set them to the system default values at socket creation time. So, what happens is a dial-up user connects to a web server to download an MP3 file. The socket sets aside a 1 Meg buffer, the web server dumps 1 Meg into it, and then the kernel has to keep that 1 Meg around in MBUF's until it can dribble out to the end user. No surprise, you run out of MBUF's in a hurry. There are a number of issues that come out of this: * MBUF's are currently allocated based on NMBCLUSTERS, which is based on MAXUSERS (unless overridden). NMBCLUSTERS is found using the formula 512 + MAXUSERS * 16. This forumla has been in use for a long time, and it may be time to consider allocating a few more clusters per user. MBUF's is 4 * NMBCLUSTERS, which is a fine number, but testing shows gives you too many MBUF's in many cases. (Or, put another way, most every system I've seen shows a trend of running out of clusters way before MBUF's.) * The socket layer needs to be more intelligent about its buffering. Simply always allocating the largest buffer is easy to code, but wastes considerable resources, particular on machines with lots of connections. So, I'd like to propose some fixes to get people thinking. I have ordered them in the order I think they should be done: 1) The per-socket defaults should be raised to 32k in the next release, giving 2x today's performance in general, and putting FreeBSD on par at least with most Linux distro's. I think the memory consequences here are quite minor, and provide a good place to study the effects on real world people. 2) The socket layer needs to be modified to not use the maximum buffer as the default. Imagine if disk drivers allocated 4 Meg for every process writing to disk, just because the disk has a 4 Meg cache. The buffer clearly needs to hold all unacknowledged data, and should therefor grow as the window size grows, plus some overhead so that some unsent data can be buffered in the kernel (to avoid context switches and the like). This way connections to slow hosts (eg dial up users) would not buffer much more than the window size, using only a small amount of memory. This would allow admins to set the sizes much larger without wasting memory on connections that will never use it. Note, from looking at soreserve and related code it appears it just sets maximums, and that raising it midstream would have no ill effects. (Reducing would.) So a good first stab might be to have a new "initial socket buffer" size passed to soreserve when a new socket is created, and if the TCP window could be increased past that value at any point it could be recalled (or a resize function created) that raised the limit to 2 * maxwin, or 1.1 * maxwin, or maxwin + buffer or whatever is appropriate up to the hard limit set by the system administrator. 3) The number of MBUF's needs to be increased. Ideally this should be dynamically changeable, which it is not today. As the net gets faster, users need more network resources per user, hence more MBUF's. Also, I wonder if it should be determined from MAXUSERS at all. It is in fact related the the maximum number of simultaneous network connections, and it might make more sense to base it off that, with a default based on MAXUSERS (but larger). Point #2 is very critical. Right now it means someone who runs a web server must leave the values fairly low (probably ok for serving dial up and DSL users) to not run out of MBUF's, but without much hackery can't get high speed transfers on the nightly backup run, or content distribution run across the network. Buffers need to be more dynamically scaled to individual connections. So, bottom line, in the end I would like a FreeBSD host that out of the box can get 2-4 MBytes/sec across country (or better), but that manages it in such a way that your standard web server running on a FreeBSD box doesn't fall over. Is it just a pipe dream, or can we make that happen with a little effort? -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org Systems Engineer - Internetworking Engineer - CCIE 3440 Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 17:23:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sleipner.eiffel.dk (sub19-229.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.19.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 435FE37B405 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:23:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from flemming@froekjaer.org) Received: from froekjaer.org (sub19-225.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.19.225]) by sleipner.eiffel.dk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6C0Pc527606; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:25:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from flemming@froekjaer.org) Message-ID: <3B4CEE3C.E95A46A@froekjaer.org> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:24:29 -0700 From: Flemming Froekjaer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian ELischer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: B/W quickcam..(anyone got the program?) References: <3B4BA385.1C6A7E59@vicor-nb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG /usr/ports/graphics/qcread Julian ELischer wrote: > I had a copy of Xfqcam that used to run this B/W qcam I have sitting > here > but it seems that I must have got it from somewher estrange because I > cannot > find it anywhere these days... > > anyone still have a copy of it? > (I think it was left on my on=ld machine at whistle when I left :-( ) > > julian > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 17:33:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (ussenterprise.ufp.org [208.185.30.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFA4837B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:33:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bicknell@ussenterprise.ufp.org) Received: (from bicknell@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f6C0XK494735; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 20:33:20 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bicknell) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 20:33:20 -0400 From: Leo Bicknell To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Network performance tuning. Message-ID: <20010711203320.A94646@ussenterprise.ufp.org> References: <20010711195021.A89324@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010711195021.A89324@ussenterprise.ufp.org>; from bicknell@ussenterprise.ufp.org on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 07:50:21PM -0400 Organization: United Federation of Planets Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I love responding to my own messages, but I do have something to add. The following link, which seems to be along the right lines was given to me by an interested party. I have BCC'ed them on this message so they can show themselves if they want, or stay in the shadows for the time being. Take a look at http://www.psc.edu/networking/tcp.html, in particular http://www.psc.edu/networking/auto.html. I can't believe I overlooked it when I was looking at the site earlier. It's a potential fix to point #2 in my message. It has working, if experimental, NetBSD code. Perhaps a FreeBSD version should appear soon in a default-to-off version so it can get out to the world. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org Systems Engineer - Internetworking Engineer - CCIE 3440 Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 17:36:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from silby.com (cb34181-a.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.14.173.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8C7F37B405 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:36:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from silby@silby.com) Received: (qmail 18290 invoked by uid 1000); 12 Jul 2001 00:36:18 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 00:36:18 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:36:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Silbersack To: Leo Bicknell Cc: Subject: Re: Network performance tuning. In-Reply-To: <20010711195021.A89324@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Message-ID: <20010711192346.F2662-100000@achilles.silby.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Leo Bicknell wrote: > > I'm going to bring up a topic that is sure to spark a great debate > (read: flamefest), but I think it's an important issue. I've put > my nomex on, let's see where this goes. I don't think this will start a flamefest; most of what you suggest is definitely needed. However, the main question is one of developer time. Bosko just rewrote the mbuf subsystem in -current, making memory reclamation more feasible. However, I doubt much of this will be material that can be ported back to 4.x. You seem to have hit at the crux of the problem - we need dynamically tuned socket buffers. I think that there are patches which implement that feature for netbsd, perhaps they can be ported over. If you (or anyone else with free time) would port that code, I don't think it would see barriers to inclusion. As for changing the default buffer sizes and mbuf to mbuf cluster ratio... that could certainly spark long debate. In general, I agree with your suggestions. However, let's cut the debate short. Since you have a bunch of fbsd servers you can check out, track the output of netstat -m over the course of a few days on them. From this data, the answer to the ratio question should become clear. Mike "Silby" Silbersack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 17:38:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.vicor-nb.com (bigwoop.vicor-nb.com [208.206.78.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 178CF37B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:38:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@vicor-nb.com) Received: from vicor-nb.com (dhcp122.vicor-nb.com [208.206.78.122]) by mail.vicor-nb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A616B1B211; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:38:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4CF397.62A388DC@vicor-nb.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:47:19 -0700 From: Julian ELischer Organization: VICOR X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.3-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Flemming Froekjaer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: B/W quickcam..(anyone got the program?) References: <3B4BA385.1C6A7E59@vicor-nb.com> <3B4CEE3C.E95A46A@froekjaer.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Flemming Froekjaer wrote: > > /usr/ports/graphics/qcread doesn't find the camera, but Phil Gilley sent me an update of his port for xfqcam and it works just fine > > Julian ELischer wrote: > > > I had a copy of Xfqcam that used to run this B/W qcam I have sitting > > here > > but it seems that I must have got it from somewher estrange because I > > cannot > > find it anywhere these days... > > > > anyone still have a copy of it? > > (I think it was left on my on=ld machine at whistle when I left :-( ) > > > > julian > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 17:48:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CCF437B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:48:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (InterJet.elischer.org [192.168.1.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA61011; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:37:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Leo Bicknell Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Network performance tuning. In-Reply-To: <20010711195021.A89324@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Some good points. On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Leo Bicknell wrote: > > > > * FreeBSD is at the middle-bottom of the pack when it comes to > defaults. http://www.psc.edu/networking/perf_tune.html AND we still don't have a working standard SACK implementation. > > There are a number of issues that come out of this: > > * MBUF's are currently allocated based on NMBCLUSTERS, which is > based on MAXUSERS (unless overridden). NMBCLUSTERS is found > using the formula 512 + MAXUSERS * 16. This forumla has been in use > for a long time, and it may be time to consider allocating a few > more clusters per user. MBUF's is 4 * NMBCLUSTERS, which is a fine > number, but testing shows gives you too many MBUF's in many cases. > (Or, put another way, most every system I've seen shows a trend > of running out of clusters way before MBUF's.) > This CAN be set separatly I think.. > * The socket layer needs to be more intelligent about its buffering. > Simply always allocating the largest buffer is easy to code, but > wastes considerable resources, particular on machines with lots > of connections. certainly it should be dynamic I'm certain we can work out the bandwidth product .. and thus the maximum window needed... > > So, I'd like to propose some fixes to get people thinking. I have > ordered them in the order I think they should be done: > > 1) The per-socket defaults should be raised to 32k in the next > release, giving 2x today's performance in general, and putting > FreeBSD on par at least with most Linux distro's. I think the > memory consequences here are quite minor, and provide a good > place to study the effects on real world people. I think that being able to dynamically work out the window would be the best idea.. The minimum RTT is discovered pretty quickly. Keeping the buffer size no more than twice the calculated bandwidth product presently being used would work fine. (or the max windowsize) would probably be a good move. Your suggestion below is certainly a good basis to start from. > > 2) The socket layer needs to be modified to not use the maximum > buffer as the default. Imagine if disk drivers allocated 4 Meg > for every process writing to disk, just because the disk has a > 4 Meg cache. The buffer clearly needs to hold all unacknowledged > data, and should therefor grow as the window size grows, plus > some overhead so that some unsent data can be buffered in the > kernel (to avoid context switches and the like). This way > connections to slow hosts (eg dial up users) would not buffer > much more than the window size, using only a small amount of > memory. This would allow admins to set the sizes much larger > without wasting memory on connections that will never use it. > > Note, from looking at soreserve and related code it appears it > just sets maximums, and that raising it midstream would have no > ill effects. (Reducing would.) So a good first stab might be > to have a new "initial socket buffer" size passed to soreserve > when a new socket is created, and if the TCP window could be > increased past that value at any point it could be recalled (or > a resize function created) that raised the limit to 2 * maxwin, > or 1.1 * maxwin, or maxwin + buffer or whatever is appropriate > up to the hard limit set by the system administrator. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 18:15: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu (bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15F5B37B406; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:14:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from opal (cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.123.101]) by bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f6C1Esv23590; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 21:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 21:14:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang X-Sender: zzhang@opal To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: sheldonh@starjuice.net, bmah@FreeBSD.ORG, bsddiy@163.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vfs.vmiodirenable undocumented In-Reply-To: <20010711102230C.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG 100% agreed. In this particular vmiodirenable case, you can search the mailing list archive and will find that people have discussed it at least one year ago. Plus, if you still do not understand it, read the book "The design and Implementation of the 4.4 BSD Operating System". Anyway, when you get something free, you should be grateful and not complain its quality because you have not paid for it. -Zhihui On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > From: Sheldon Hearn > Subject: Re: vfs.vmiodirenable undocumented > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:21:24 +0200 > > > I'm very concerned with the fact that this style of response has become > > commonly accepted within the FreeBSD community. > > I would have to disagree that this is an area of concern. > > Let's take it from the other perspective: There are a lot of clueless > individuals out there who just don't understand the volunteer nature > of open source and think it's fine to walk up and post criticisms on > the bulletin board without any truly helpful suggestions, or to demand > work of volunteers rather than offering to ASSIST them in their > efforts. It happens all the time, and each time it does it serves to > disillusion the volunteers just a little bit more as they wonder just > why they're doing this for such an ungrateful pack of cretins. > > In such instances, I'd much rather have the volunteer vent a little > steam and perhaps feel better rather than bottle it up until one day > it just becomes all too much and they walk away from the project > entirely. I'm not being alarmist or dramatic in painting that picture > either because it's happened more times than I like to think about. > > It's also the case that people tend to only really learn lessons when > they're hard lessons, and if getting a public spanking (albeit a mild > one in this case) is what it takes to really drive the point home then > I'll be the first to hand out paddles. Some people, like Mr Xu here, > are even more resistant to clue transfer than most (just read the > archives) and, if anything, Bruce was being rather admirably > restrained with his response. > > In short, your approach may be fine one for conducting sensitivity > training at the Oh Shamalu Spiritual Center, but I'm not sure it's > appropriate here. This is the freebsd-hackers mailing list, and if > you can't take a little engineering heat then this is probably the > wrong place for you. Not everything in life needs to be "kinder and > gentler", to borrow words from George Bush, and I suspect the folks > who run police academies and military training programs would be the > first to agree with me. :) > > - Jordan > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 18:48:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [216.33.66.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A74337B405 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:48:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1098) id 1792E81D05; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 20:47:42 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 20:47:42 -0500 From: Bill Fumerola To: Bsdguru@aol.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intel ISP1100 or similar 1U experience with 4.3 stable Message-ID: <20010711204742.P47870@elvis.mu.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from Bsdguru@aol.com on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 02:24:11PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.3-FEARSOME-20010617 i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 02:24:11PM -0400, Bsdguru@aol.com wrote: > Its generally a bad idea to house a multi-processor system in a 1U enclosure, > as there isnt enough cooling space and 3/4" fans are simply not powerful > enough. Unless space is ridiculously scarce, you can get much better cooling > and reliability with a 2U unit. I have not had any problems (that were related to environment) with any of my multi-processor 1U machines. There are companies[1] who know how to build them. -- Bill Fumerola / billf@FreeBSD.org 1. rackable (http://www.rackable.com/) rocks! compaq has multi-processor 1U products as well (and I've never heard of the compaq 1Us having environmental problems either). conspiracy theory advocates will suggest that I'm paid to say that, though. :-> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 18:49: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC6737B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:49:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6C1mJ424976; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 21:48:19 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200107112113.f6BLDgQ81686@nimitz.packetdesign.com> References: <200107112113.f6BLDgQ81686@nimitz.packetdesign.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 21:48:17 -0400 To: bmah@packetdesign.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Development for older FreeBSD releases Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 2:13 PM -0700 7/11/01, Bruce A. Mah wrote: >I need to make an executable to run on an i386 box running >FreeBSD 2.2.X machine. Unfortunately, it has no compiler >installed on it. All of the computers I have at my disposal >currently are i386s running 4-STABLE or 5-CURRENT. Upgrading >the target machine is not an option. Could you run 2.2.x in a virtual machine under VMWARE? I have vmware on one of my boxes, and I intended to try creating a 2.2.8 system on it sometime. It probably would not perform great, but it'd be good enough to do a few simple compiles on. I also still have cd's for 2.2.6 and 2.2.7 if you'd want me to try that. [but I probably won't have time to try this until the weekend] -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 19: 2: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bazooka.unixfreak.org (bazooka.unixfreak.org [63.198.170.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8893C37B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:02:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dima@unixfreak.org) Received: from hornet.unixfreak.org (hornet [63.198.170.140]) by bazooka.unixfreak.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26A463E31 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:02:02 -0700 (PDT) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Trailing newline in panic() calls Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:02:01 -0700 From: Dima Dorfman Message-Id: <20010712020202.26A463E31@bazooka.unixfreak.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi folks, There are quite a few places in the kernel where panic(9) is called with a trailing newline. E.g.: panic("vm_page_free: freeing wired page\n"); That '\n' is redundant, because panic() will print that by itself. Is there any reason not to correct these calls? panic() OpenBSD and NetBSD also prints a newline for the user, so there are no portability issues. Dima Dorfman dima@unixfreak.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 22: 1:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nimitz.packetdesign.com (dns.packetdesign.com [65.192.41.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AD2837B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:01:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmah@packetdesign.com) Received: (from bmah@localhost) by nimitz.packetdesign.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f6C51Ec01539; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:01:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmah) Message-Id: <200107120501.f6C51Ec01539@nimitz.packetdesign.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/09/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: bmah@packetdesign.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Development for older FreeBSD releases In-Reply-To: References: <200107112113.f6BLDgQ81686@nimitz.packetdesign.com> Comments: In-reply-to Garance A Drosihn message dated "Wed, 11 Jul 2001 21:48:17 -0400." From: bmah@packetdesign.com (Bruce A. Mah) Reply-To: bmah@packetdesign.com X-Face: g~c`.{#4q0"(V*b#g[i~rXgm*w;:nMfz%_RZLma)UgGN&=j`5vXoU^@n5v4:OO)c["!w)nD/!!~e4Sj7LiT'6*wZ83454H""lb{CC%T37O!!'S$S&D}sem7I[A 2V%N&+ X-Image-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/Images/bmah-cisco-small.gif X-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_-708749172P"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:01:09 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --==_Exmh_-708749172P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If memory serves me right, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > At 2:13 PM -0700 7/11/01, Bruce A. Mah wrote: > >I need to make an executable to run on an i386 box running > >FreeBSD 2.2.X machine. Unfortunately, it has no compiler > >installed on it. All of the computers I have at my disposal > >currently are i386s running 4-STABLE or 5-CURRENT. Upgrading > >the target machine is not an option. > > Could you run 2.2.x in a virtual machine under VMWARE? I have > vmware on one of my boxes, and I intended to try creating a > 2.2.8 system on it sometime. It probably would not perform > great, but it'd be good enough to do a few simple compiles on. > I also still have cd's for 2.2.6 and 2.2.7 if you'd want me to > try that. [picking a random message to reply to] Thanks to everyone for their ideas and offers of help! On the rationale that any office should have some old clunker machines lying around, one of my cow-orkers and I ended up scrounging around people's cubes, until we found a P5-166 that someone didn't want (for some reason he was trying to make -CURRENT run on it, but he gave up). I grabbed 2.2.8 via an FTP install (first time I've done that in about three years), and we're good to go. Cheers, Bruce. --==_Exmh_-708749172P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: Exmh version 2.3.1+ 05/14/2001 iD8DBQE7TS8V2MoxcVugUsMRAlpkAKCHFQDUSpzXWUJdxQ9OwElstK6CfgCffDmP ClMccBOtdhkijpbjTOh8IhY= =rU4v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_-708749172P-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 22:24:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDE3737B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:24:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=5742f9e777bf774552e7eb535c7d20af) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15KZ32-0000DT-00; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:30:00 -0600 Message-ID: <3B4D35D7.21721EDF@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:29:59 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Robinson Cc: Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> <3B4B1B66.C011BF2B@softweyr.com> <3B4B32F3.7AC70D66@iowna.com> <3B4C0C3A.64E05112@softweyr.com> <3B4C46E1.8E65DB80@iowna.com> <20010711141439.B73193@jake.akitanet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Paul Robinson wrote: > > On Jul 11, Bill Moran wrote: > > > Along with that, I think I'm finally getting a handle on what really > > needs done to sysinstall. It's been a painful process, wrought with > > misunderstandings and confusion, but I think I'm finally getting what > > the point is. > > To me, the point seems to be that to increase the userbase an installer that > a 10 year old could use is a Good Thing. You're headed in the wrong direction there. I'm not worried about the average 10 year old, they'll tackle just about anything. I'm worried about the average 40- or 50-year old, who might be looking for a mail server, a workstation, or maybe just to learn something, but doesn't know enough details about their computer to install FreeBSD as it is now. > However, there should be an option > before the installer starts up to go to a more traditional install > (/stand/sysinstall is still fine for me, because I'm used to it), or whilst > in the "magical fairies do it all for me"-installer, there should be the Yes, I agree. What is there now isn't terrible; some parts of it are fairly good. (Speaking from the outside, user view, only.) The goal isn't to make all the complexity disappear, but rather to break up the current stuff into discrete pieces, add some functionality, then be able to layer a user interface on top of that. Ideally, the installation will be broken into functional steps, like it is now, and you'll be able to select what level of detail you want as you go along. For instance, the first task is to allocate some disk space for FreeBSD. If there is an existing FreeBSD partition on the disk, you can simply ask if the user wants to use that space, and continue if they answer yes. If not, or if he answers no, he needs to partition the disk, so you go to the disk partitioning tool. It initially shows a simple view of the disks(s) in the system and the partition entries on each disk, and allows the user to manipulate them. Hitting the "details" button give you a cylinder-by-cylinder view or something equally fitting and detailed. Next, you install the basic system. You get a list of various canned types, like "Basic" or "X Kern Developer", or the ability to jump to a more detailed installation. And so on. Various developers in FreeBSD are working on some of the infrastructure needed to implement this. I haven't kept up to date on the progress of libh, etc., but it apparently is still getting some attention. > ability to get a detailed amount of status information and an > "Advanced" option on the dialogues to be able to allow people to have more > control if they need it at various points. Yeah. I think I'd like to see it relatively smart; if I've gone 2 levels of detail deeper than the simplest install, it would be nice for it to stay at that level as I move to the next step. Maybe. What do you think? > The idea of more packages being > installed and configured as a default is probably a good one too. Or perhaps in groups. Wouldn't it be nice if you could select a "Base + source" install, then a "profile" that equates to "Bind cache-only + postfix + cyrus imapd" for your mailserver? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 23: 2:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [64.0.106.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D779237B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:02:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA77909; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 02:02:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 02:02:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: steve.d.meacham@mail.sprint.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ie ethernet device driver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 steve.d.meacham@mail.sprint.com wrote: > there is an intermittent bug (PR 16214) with the driver. There is a > fix for both of these problems here: > > http://www.jfitz.com/tips/freebsd_etherexpress16.html I'll try to take care of this in a few days or so. -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | winter@jurai.net | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL | ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | For Great Justice! | ISO8802.5 4ever | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 23: 4: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA8D237B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:03:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dg@root.com) Received: (from dg@localhost) by root.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f6C5qlj46930; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:52:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dg) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:52:47 -0700 From: David Greenman To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Bsdguru@aol.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intel ISP1100 or similar 1U experience with 4.3 stable Message-ID: <20010711225247.F40357@nexus.root.com> References: <20010711204742.P47870@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20010711204742.P47870@elvis.mu.org>; from billf@mu.org on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 08:47:42PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >On Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 02:24:11PM -0400, Bsdguru@aol.com wrote: > >> Its generally a bad idea to house a multi-processor system in a 1U enclosure, >> as there isnt enough cooling space and 3/4" fans are simply not powerful >> enough. Unless space is ridiculously scarce, you can get much better cooling >> and reliability with a 2U unit. > >I have not had any problems (that were related to environment) with any of my >multi-processor 1U machines. There are companies[1] who know how to build them. We've never had any cooling problems with our 1U servers either and we provide fan and other enclosure monitoring under FreeBSD as well, so any temperature issues would get attention before they become a real problem. We have both center of the cabinet fans as well as multiple high output exhaust fans and can sustain multiple fan failures before things start to warm up inside. I'm not sure how this thread got moved to -hackers...it started out on freebsd-isp and really does not belong on this list. -DG David Greenman Co-founder, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org President, TeraSolutions, Inc. - http://www.terasolutions.com Pave the road of life with opportunities. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 23: 8:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [64.0.106.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BE9837B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:08:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA77994; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 02:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 02:06:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Terry Lambert , Rasputin , Jamie Bowden , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <20010711112054.D93534@lpt.ens.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > I've seen people disable compilers before, but I haven't understood > how it helps. You can compile elsewhere and bring the binary onto the > system, can't you? Unless the system is some extremely rare OS or > doesn't ship with a compiler at all -- neither of which is true of > FreeBSD. Unless of course user writable space is mounted noexec. -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | winter@jurai.net | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL | ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | For Great Justice! | ISO8802.5 4ever | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 1:15:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from l04.research.kpn.com (l04.research.kpn.com [139.63.192.204]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4A1C37B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 01:15:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from K.J.Koster@kpn.com) Received: by l04.research.kpn.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:15:33 +0100 Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452205FD9D73@l04.research.kpn.com> From: "Koster, K.J." To: "'freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG'" , Garance A Drosihn Cc: Bill Moran , Wes Peters Subject: RE: Suggestions for sysinstall / disklabel Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:15:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear All, > > The Alpha's root *must* be the first partition > (starting at the > "begining" of the disk). People often know how much swap > they want, and > take what is left for other things. So they allocate swap first. > Sysinstall's disk editor gives no feedback on how it is going > to lay out > the disk. There have been numerious install failures reported to > freebsd-alpha@ because of this. > I've submitted a rather feeble patch (PR alpha/23064) that makes sysinstall whine when someone is found aiming at his/her foot. If someone would be so kind as to review/submit this patch. Kees Jan ===================================================== You can't have everything. Where would you put it? [Steven Wright] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 1:41:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gidgate.gid.co.uk (gid.co.uk [194.32.164.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C493837B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 01:41:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: (from rb@localhost) by gidgate.gid.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA83245; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:40:58 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010712092731.00bd7340@gid.co.uk> X-Sender: rbmail@gid.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:28:59 +0100 To: David Greenman From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Intel ISP1100 or similar 1U experience with 4.3 stable Cc: Bsdguru@aol.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010711225247.F40357@nexus.root.com> References: <20010711204742.P47870@elvis.mu.org> <20010711204742.P47870@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, At 22:52 11/07/01 -0700, David Greenman wrote: >[...] > I'm not sure how this thread got moved to -hackers...it started out on >freebsd-isp and really does not belong on this list. It's of interest to -clusters too. I wouldn't have seen it on -isp -- Bob Bishop +44 (0)118 977 4017 rb@gid.co.uk fax +44 (0)118 989 4254 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 1:48:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from infinitive.futureperfectcorporation.com (curie.sunesi.com [196.25.112.244]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C91E537B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 01:48:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nbm@gerund.futureperfectcorporation.com) Received: (qmail 61857 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jul 2001 09:08:05 -0000 Received: from choke.sunesi.net (HELO gerund.futureperfectcorporation.com) (196.25.112.242) by infinitive.futureperfectcorporation.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 09:08:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 66522 invoked by uid 1001); 12 Jul 2001 08:48:21 -0000 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:48:21 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" Cc: Terry Lambert , Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getting rid of sysinstall - Was: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010712104821.B66247@mithrandr.moria.org> References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <20010711190247.D52923@mail.webmonster.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010711190247.D52923@mail.webmonster.de>; from karsten@rohrbach.de on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 07:02:47PM +0200 Organization: iTouch Labs X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.3-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://mithrandr.moria.org/nbm/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed 2001-07-11 (19:02), Karsten W. Rohrbach wrote: > Terry Lambert(tlambert2@mindspring.com)@2001.07.09 13:29:23 +0000: > [...] > > > There are too many steps. > > > > X11 is a distribution set, instead of a package. > > > > Etc. (I could go on forever). > > > > ...then let's wrap up a concept of a interpreter language driven > installer. redhat does it in python since years, so could we... > > some rough and spontaneuos ideas: > - stripped down python interpreter runs as init > - class framework for 'plugin modules' such as postinst config,... > - basic 'service' classes for abstraction of the ui, binary execution > and fileio (for config files) ... > so the scheme would boil down to something like this: > > [gui multiplexer]<--+-->[cli] > ^ +-->[text ui] > [cdboot/loader] | +-->[xf86 gui] > | | +-->[remote ui] > v | +-->[unattended] > [kernel]->[python]->[rc-loader] | > | | > v v > [messaging/core]<------+-->[config writers] > ^ +-->[exec subsystem] > | | ^ > v | | > [sig verifier]<->[dist source handling] | v > ^ | [fdisk/disklabel/...] > [cd mount]<---------+ | > [hd mount]<---------+ +-->[upgrade subsys] > [nfs mount]<---------+ +-->[package installer] > [ftp/http fetcher]<---------+ > > > this in no way perfect, just some idea -- feel free to flame me if i > missed the point, but don't rip out my intestines ;-) > s/python/tcl/, and you're talking about "libh". Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner nbm@mithrandr.moria.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 2: 5:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jhs.muc.de (jhs.muc.de [193.149.49.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D26137B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 02:05:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhs@jhs.muc.de) Received: from park.jhs.private (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jhs.muc.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6BNemX53936; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:40:48 GMT (envelope-from jhs@park.jhs.private) Message-Id: <200107112340.f6BNemX53936@jhs.muc.de> To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, bod@FreeBSDFoundation.org Subject: Re: Re. The Foundation [was Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral] In-Reply-To: Message from "Justin T. Gibbs" of "Sun, 08 Jul 2001 15:47:18 MDT." <200107082147.f68LlIU93022@aslan.scsiguy.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 01:40:47 +0200 From: "Julian Stacey Jhs@jhs.muc.de" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Justin wrote: > > I believe that all of the members of the Foundation's current board > are well known to the FreeBSD community. All 3 being Core Alumni: Jonathan M. Bresler, John D. Polstra, Justin T. Gibbs. > Having directors from outside the FreeBSD community will > broaden the perspective and enhance the operation of the Foundation. _Outside_ ?! Well, I guess we'll hear more later. Jordan wrote: > From: "Julian Stacey.... > > As I recall FreeBSD Inc (ie jkh & dg, a team of 2) once held the > > trademark, then it moved to Walnut, then BSDi, then Wind River. > > Just to clarify this point - FreeBSD, Inc. has never held the FreeBSD > trademark. It was initially filed for by Bob Bruce of Walnut Creek > CDROM. ........ Ah ! Thanks for the clarification, seems I was wrong. > ...... potentially sticky situation. I say > "potentially" because I think it's still within our grasp to resolve > the matter without undue fuss, but if anyone on either side is > determined to make it sticky then things will be. I guess if those who know of resources Wind River contributes, ensure we don't forget to acknowledge them, it may help ensure good relations ? Places to check might include EG doc/handbook/donors.html &/or ftp.freebsd etc/ftpmotd etc. Julian J.Stacey Munich Unix (FreeBSD, Linux etc) Consultant http://bim.bsn.com/~jhs/ Ihr Rauchen => mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Schnupftabak probieren ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 2:52:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.46.168]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A821E37B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 02:52:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f6C9qea22284 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:52:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from kuku) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:52:40 +0200 (CEST) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <200107120952.f6C9qea22284@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ATAPI support Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Question came up whether FreeBSD supports ATAPI. I thought so it came with the introduction of the ata drivers. I may be wrong. I just got stuck when reading a note about OSs that support ATAPI and FreeBSD was listed as NO. (it's in the vein of CD writers and ATAPI). -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 2:55:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebsd.dk (fw-rl0.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A680737B405 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 02:55:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f6C9tM711682; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:55:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <200107120955.f6C9tM711682@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: ATAPI support In-Reply-To: <200107120952.f6C9qea22284@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> "from Christoph Kukulies at Jul 12, 2001 11:52:40 am" To: Christoph Kukulies Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:55:22 +0200 (CEST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL88 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Christoph Kukulies wrote: > Question came up whether FreeBSD supports ATAPI. I thought so > it came with the introduction of the ata drivers. I may be wrong. > I just got stuck when reading a note about OSs that support ATAPI > and FreeBSD was listed as NO. > > (it's in the vein of CD writers and ATAPI). *sigh* We support ATAPI devices and has been for a long time (also CD burners)... -Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 3:13:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.46.168]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E47337B403 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 03:13:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f6CADfi22493; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:13:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from kuku) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:13:41 +0200 From: Christoph Kukulies To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren_Schmidt?= Cc: Christoph Kukulies , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ATAPI support Message-ID: <20010712121341.D22288@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> References: <200107120952.f6C9qea22284@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> <200107120955.f6C9tM711682@freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200107120955.f6C9tM711682@freebsd.dk>; from sos@freebsd.dk on Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 11:55:22AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 11:55:22AM +0200, Søren Schmidt wrote: > It seems Christoph Kukulies wrote: > > Question came up whether FreeBSD supports ATAPI. I thought so > > it came with the introduction of the ata drivers. I may be wrong. > > I just got stuck when reading a note about OSs that support ATAPI > > and FreeBSD was listed as NO. > > > > (it's in the vein of CD writers and ATAPI). > > *sigh* > > We support ATAPI devices and has been for a long time (also CD burners)... I believe I forgot to do a group reply on my previous reply to Søren. OK, it seems a misunderstanding of the term ATAPI. The author of cdrecord, Joerg Schilling, told me - I will translate: Citation: "You havn't understood what ATAPI is! ATAPI *is* SCSI over IDE transport. Thus a SCSI system has to have a hostadapter driver for the IDE bus. *All* OSs despite FreeBSD do that right. Under Linux unfortunately it isn't the default." End of citation -- > > -Søren -- Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 5:39:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebsd.dk (fw-rl0.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 546DE37B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 05:39:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f6CCdai51254; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:39:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <200107121239.f6CCdai51254@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: ATAPI support In-Reply-To: <20010712121341.D22288@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> "from Christoph Kukulies at Jul 12, 2001 12:13:41 pm" To: Christoph Kukulies Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:39:36 +0200 (CEST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL88 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Christoph Kukulies wrote: > On Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 11:55:22AM +0200, Søren Schmidt wrote: > > > > *sigh* > > > > We support ATAPI devices and has been for a long time (also CD burners)... > > I believe I forgot to do a group reply on my previous reply > to Søren. > > OK, it seems a misunderstanding of the term ATAPI. > The author of cdrecord, Joerg Schilling, told me - I will translate: > > Citation: > > "You havn't understood what ATAPI is! > > ATAPI *is* SCSI over IDE transport. Thus a SCSI system has to have > a hostadapter driver for the IDE bus. > > *All* OSs despite FreeBSD do that right. Under Linux unfortunately > it isn't the default." > > End of citation -- Even more *sigh* Just for the record: sos# ./cdrecord -scanbus Cdrecord 1.9 (i386-unknown-freebsd5.0) Copyright (C) 1995-2000 Jörg Schilling Using libscg version 'schily-0.1' ./cdrecord: Warning: using inofficial libscg transport code version (Copyright 2001 Søren Schmidt -FreeBSD ATA driver backend v1.0 'ALPHA'). scsibus0: 0,0,0 0) 'ADAPTEC ' 'ACB-5500 ' 'FAKE' NON CCS Disk 0,1,0 1) 'HITACHI ' 'GF-1000 ' 'I002' Removable CD-ROM 0,2,0 2) 'CONNER ' 'CTT8000-A ' '1.17' Removable Tape 0,3,0 3) 'GENERIC ' 'CRD-BP1400P ' '5.29' Removable CD-ROM There it is, there is no SCSI subsystem involved here, and no I cant release the code since cdrecord in under the GNU virus, and part of the above is code that is not public (yet).... Oh and BTW this fails just as miserably on those burners that doesn't currently work with burncd in -current :) -Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 7:44:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jake.akitanet.co.uk (jake.akitanet.co.uk [212.1.130.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ADEF37B403 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 07:44:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wiggy@wopr.akitanet.co.uk) Received: from dsl-212-135-208-201.dsl.easynet.co.uk ([212.135.208.201] helo=wopr.akitanet.co.uk) by jake.akitanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #3) id 15Khgt-000Lyo-00; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:43:44 +0100 Received: from wiggy by wopr.akitanet.co.uk with local (Exim 3.21 #2) id 15Khhg-000HTf-00; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:44:32 +0100 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:44:32 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" Cc: Terry Lambert , Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getting rid of sysinstall - Was: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010712154432.N53408@jake.akitanet.co.uk> References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <20010711190247.D52923@mail.webmonster.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <20010711190247.D52923@mail.webmonster.de>; from karsten@rohrbach.de on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 07:02:47PM +0200 X-Scanner: exiscan *15Khgt-000Lyo-00*$AK$zJzpU7eguRPitC5klDzRo0* Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jul 11, "Karsten W. Rohrbach" wrote: =20 > some rough and spontaneuos ideas: > - stripped down python interpreter runs as init Wow. If you think about it, that's quite a big departure from where FBSD is at the moment (or I'm missing the point). You might find a lot more people would prefer Perl if you're going to move to this kind of model (however it's been so long since I looked at this stuff, you might already be using this model, and I don't know about it), but I say ignore them. ;-) > - every class has properties which can be preloaded (=3Dunattended install > functionality from 'recorded' install session or manually generated > setup) Potentially a hazardous thing to offer. I can see where you're coming from, but there are basic questions that would need to be resolved before we get into the other issues - e.g. where exactly is the install session going to be recorded to? You can't put it on the CD you're pulling from, floppies are a pain in the backside, and the early (more confusing parts) are not going to have a network available to them. Probably. Is their an existing installer that does this, and if so how does it record sessions? > so on, perhaps stuff configuration metadata into xml and re-write it > to the appropriate (maybe new/different) format -- oops, i said the > x-word :-> That's quite a big project. Just getting decent XML parsers in place at early stages of install would be problematic IMHO. > - remote install dialog ui using ethernet as transport (yay!) would be > a nice idea No, no, no, NO! Please don't do this. Although it seems like a nice idea, securing this would be a nightmare, because the only way this could realistically be done is if the box decided to do a pure network boot, brought over an install image, and then you managed to ssh in or something at the right moment. It's too open to abuse. Again, it's a nice idea, but I think on a practical level it might be too complicated. > - making the base system consist of packages would raise the need for > package db flagging of non-removable/mandatory pkgs Yeah, really decent top-notch package management is something sorely missing in FBSD. I have several times sat down and thought about writing something decent or even lift something from somewhere else, but never got around to it. One idea I had was to trojan install so that it could track dependancies on standard 'make install' builds. Maybe even put some stuff in 'make' itself, or 'configure'. When you think about it, it's not that bad an idea. But then, if it was a good idea, somebody else would have done it, except they haven't, probably for reasons I haven't thought about. > - with that step we also could package sendmail and bind out of the base > system ;-) hint-hint sendmail sucks. I think this comes back to the issue of taste. First thing I do after an install once I've secured it down, etc. is get sendmail off the box and exim in place instead. If that was an option at install time (sendmail was never even on the box in the first place) I would jump up and down and smile. And stuff. > - package signature verification would also be a nice thing to have, > especially with signature fetching over the net Still open to abuse. To really secure that you would need to put in measures to prevent man-in-the-middle attacks, etc. Good idea though. =20 Yeah, all seems to make sense. I think python might be a choice that will raise some eyebrows, but on the whole it seems pretty cool. --=20 Paul Robinson ,--------------------------------------- Technical Director @ Akita | A computer lets you make more mistakes PO Box 604, Manchester, M60 3PR | than any other invention with the=20 T: +44 (0) 161 228 6388 (F:6389)| possible exceptions of handguns and | Tequila - Mitch Ratcliffe `----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 7:57:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ceeyes.com (mail.in.ceeyes.com [65.192.85.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AEC037B403 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 07:57:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from srinivass@in.ceeyes.com) Received: from ssrao.in.ceeyes.com (net9-166 [10.1.9.166]) by mail.ceeyes.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA04575 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:27:38 +0530 (INST) Message-ID: <009701c10ae3$1dbf1300$a609010a@ssrao.in.ceeyes.com> From: "srinivasarao" To: Subject: Fw: help me!!!! Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:28:31 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0094_01C10B11.3744F460" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0094_01C10B11.3744F460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: srinivasarao To: questions@FreeBSD.org Date: Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:14 PM Subject: help me!!!! hi all, i want to compile the seperate folder instead of compiling the kernel . = Is there any possibility like that......?=20 Suppose i had made changes in the file ie_if.c in /usr/src/sys/dev/ie, = so instead of compiling kernel, i want to compile only the folder " ie". = is it possible? if possible then how can i proceed, and what are the = steps to be taken care? Please help me in this regard.=20 Expecting a posive response to my query........ thank u all with regards SSRao, Ceeyes software technologies Pvt. Ltd, Hyderabad, India. ------=_NextPart_000_0094_01C10B11.3744F460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 srinivasarao <srinivass@in.ceeyes.com>To:=20 questions@FreeBSD.org = <questions@FreeBSD.org>
Date:=20 Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:14 PM
Subject: help=20 me!!!!

hi all,
i want to compile the seperate folder instead of = compiling the=20 kernel . Is there any possibility like that......?
Suppose i had made changes in the file ie_if.c = in =20 /usr/src/sys/dev/ie, so instead of compiling kernel, i want to compile = only the=20 folder " ie". is it possible? if possible then how can i = proceed, and=20 what are the steps to be taken care? Please help = me in this=20 regard.
Expecting a posive response to my = query........
thank u all
with regards
SSRao,
Ceeyes software technologies Pvt. Ltd,
Hyderabad,
India.
------=_NextPart_000_0094_01C10B11.3744F460-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 8: 6:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (sentinel.office1.bg [195.24.48.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2BFAA37B406 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 08:06:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roam@orbitel.bg) Received: (qmail 1691 invoked by uid 1000); 12 Jul 2001 15:10:23 -0000 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:10:23 +0300 From: Peter Pentchev To: srinivasarao Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fw: help me!!!! Message-ID: <20010712181023.A849@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: srinivasarao , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <009701c10ae3$1dbf1300$a609010a@ssrao.in.ceeyes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <009701c10ae3$1dbf1300$a609010a@ssrao.in.ceeyes.com>; from srinivass@in.ceeyes.com on Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 08:28:31PM +0530 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 08:28:31PM +0530, srinivasarao wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: srinivasarao > To: questions@FreeBSD.org > Date: Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:14 PM > Subject: help me!!!! > > > hi all, > i want to compile the seperate folder instead of compiling the kernel . Is there any possibility like that......? > Suppose i had made changes in the file ie_if.c in /usr/src/sys/dev/ie, so instead of compiling kernel, i want to compile only the folder " ie". is it possible? if possible then how can i proceed, and what are the steps to be taken care? Please help me in this regard. If by 'folder' you mean a 'directory', and in particular, a directory living under src/sys/modules/, then you are actually trying to compile a module. You do it by: cd /usr/src/sys/modules/blah && make clean depend && make all install clean However, there is no 'ie' or 'if_ie' module for the 'ie' interface; this means that you are stuck with recompiling the whole kernel. G'luck, Peter -- Thit sentence is not self-referential because "thit" is not a word. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 8: 9:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4405037B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 08:09:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from arr@watson.org) Received: from localhost (arr@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id f6CF8X506674; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:08:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from arr@watson.org) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:08:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andrew R. Reiter" To: Andrzej Bialecki Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCE] SPY-1.1 - syscall monitoring kernel module In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'd really be interested in the results from the kernel security BoF from USENIX (sine I missed it) and seeing how we can apply any of the resultant ideas into SPY, ie. utilize interfaces or styles. Anyone know where we could find the BoF information? Robert? Andrew On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > Hi, > > I just uploaded an updated version of the SPY, which is a kernel module > that allows to selectively monitor and/or block execution of any > syscalls. This version works on relatively current -CURRENT (after the > struct proc changes). You can get it from: > > http://people.freebsd.org/~abial > > See also the detailed description there. > > I should be able also to provide a version for 4-STABLE soon, depending on > my time and availability of the machine... > > Enjoy! > > -- > > Andrzej > > // ---------------------------------------------------------------- > // Andrzej Bialecki , Chief System Architect > // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) > // ---------------------------------------------------------------- > // FreeBSD developer (http://www.freebsd.org) > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > *-------------................................................. | Andrew R. Reiter | arr@fledge.watson.org | "It requires a very unusual mind | to undertake the analysis of the obvious" -- A.N. Whitehead To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 8:45:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jake.akitanet.co.uk (jake.akitanet.co.uk [212.1.130.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11C1E37B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 08:45:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wiggy@wopr.akitanet.co.uk) Received: from dsl-212-135-208-201.dsl.easynet.co.uk ([212.135.208.201] helo=wopr.akitanet.co.uk) by jake.akitanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #3) id 15Kidt-000NHz-00; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:44:42 +0100 Received: from wiggy by wopr.akitanet.co.uk with local (Exim 3.21 #2) id 15Kieh-000Knp-00; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:45:31 +0100 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:45:31 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Marc Cc: "R.P. Aditya" , crandall@matchlogic.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel ISP1100 or similar 1U experience with 4.3 stable Message-ID: <20010712164530.P53408@jake.akitanet.co.uk> References: <20010711151745.B12458@mighty.grot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: ; from marc@geekythings.com on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 06:22:45PM -0400 X-Scanner: exiscan *15Kidt-000NHz-00*$AK$33ALmOD2qrHXkuO3FWtF3.* Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jul 11, Marc wrote: > > The Appro 1124 is a nice box...although it's more expensive than the Sun > box. It's a nice 1U chasssis with four (4!) hot-swap drive bays and the > Tyan Athlon MP motherboard. http://www.appro.com/1124/index.html Can anybody please: 1. Confirm that this works fine with FBSD (I assume it does, all the components look fine, just the NIC I'm thinking about because I've never used one), and 2. Identify as to whether there is a supplier for these boxes in the UK? This is exactly what we need for a project we have in mind, but I need a regular, reliable UK distributor. Alternatively, if anybody else can give us an idea of sub-£1k machines with dual nics that are either 1u or 2u and available in the UK AND have been tested with FBSD in a production environment, give me a shout. The critical component for us is dual-port NIC. -- Paul Robinson ,--------------------------------------- Technical Director @ Akita | A computer lets you make more mistakes PO Box 604, Manchester, M60 3PR | than any other invention with the T: +44 (0) 161 228 6388 (F:6389)| possible exceptions of handguns and | Tequila - Mitch Ratcliffe `----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 9: 4:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.webmonster.de (datasink.webmonster.de [194.162.162.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7703337B405 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:04:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karsten@rohrbach.de) Received: (qmail 96296 invoked by uid 1000); 12 Jul 2001 16:04:22 -0000 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:04:22 +0200 From: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" To: Paul Robinson Cc: Terry Lambert , Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getting rid of sysinstall - Was: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010712180421.F91396@mail.webmonster.de> Mail-Followup-To: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" , Paul Robinson , Terry Lambert , Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <20010711190247.D52923@mail.webmonster.de> <20010712154432.N53408@jake.akitanet.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="eNMatiwYGLtwo1cJ" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010712154432.N53408@jake.akitanet.co.uk>; from paul@akita.co.uk on Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 03:44:32PM +0100 X-Arbitrary-Number-Of-The-Day: 42 X-URL: http://www.webmonster.de/ X-Disclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my employer Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --eNMatiwYGLtwo1cJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Paul Robinson(paul@akita.co.uk)@2001.07.12 15:44:32 +0000: > On Jul 11, "Karsten W. Rohrbach" wrote: > =20 > > some rough and spontaneuos ideas: > > - stripped down python interpreter runs as init >=20 > Wow. If you think about it, that's quite a big departure from where FBSD = is > at the moment (or I'm missing the point). You might find a lot more people > would prefer Perl if you're going to move to this kind of model (however > it's been so long since I looked at this stuff, you might already be using > this model, and I don't know about it), but I say ignore them. ;-) perl might be superior in features at first glance but it has=20 serious deficiencies in the resulting code style, due to it's nature it not simply enables programmers to do bad things[tm] but almost enforces them to do so. > > - every class has properties which can be preloaded (=3Dunattended inst= all > > functionality from 'recorded' install session or manually generated > > setup) >=20 > Potentially a hazardous thing to offer. I can see where you're coming fro= m, > but there are basic questions that would need to be resolved before we get > into the other issues - e.g. where exactly is the install session going to > be recorded to? You can't put it on the CD you're pulling from, floppies = are > a pain in the backside, and the early (more confusing parts) are not going > to have a network available to them. Probably. Is their an existing > installer that does this, and if so how does it record sessions? what i was already thinking about was getting some minimal file access layer -- or rather object access layer -- in place. this would give us some options where to fetch stuff from and where to write it to. there's one idea which might not be as obvious to you all which i had some months ago for storing configuration data of systems after installation in a safe place (for system restoration and so on). we could multiplex the config writing to the install partitions on the disk and, simultaneously, over the network onto a configuration storage server. due to the object access abstraction it does not really matter what kind of server this is -- it could be a filesystem hierarchy, ldap, corba, you name it. i do not see a problem with giving properties to instances in an installer, storing them somewhere, and re-use them for subsequent installs on similar pieces of hardware. > > so on, perhaps stuff configuration metadata into xml and re-write it > > to the appropriate (maybe new/different) format -- oops, i said the > > x-word :-> >=20 > That's quite a big project. Just getting decent XML parsers in place at > early stages of install would be problematic IMHO. as you might have read between the lines of my comment, this would be an option, and i just mentioned it to keep the folks happy that think they could solve nearly every single one of their business problems with xml. > > - remote install dialog ui using ethernet as transport (yay!) would be > > a nice idea >=20 > No, no, no, NO! Please don't do this. Although it seems like a nice idea, > securing this would be a nightmare, because the only way this could > realistically be done is if the box decided to do a pure network boot, > brought over an install image, and then you managed to ssh in or something > at the right moment. It's too open to abuse. Again, it's a nice idea, but= I > think on a practical level it might be too complicated. we are talking about installer runtime, when booted from a cd or over the net or with a boot floppy. i would not enable this functionality withing the installer of a running system, sure. > > - making the base system consist of packages would raise the need for > > package db flagging of non-removable/mandatory pkgs >=20 > Yeah, really decent top-notch package management is something sorely miss= ing > in FBSD. I have several times sat down and thought about writing something > decent or even lift something from somewhere else, but never got around to > it. One idea I had was to trojan install so that it could track dependanc= ies > on standard 'make install' builds. Maybe even put some stuff in 'make' > itself, or 'configure'. When you think about it, it's not that bad an > idea. But then, if it was a good idea, somebody else would have done it, > except they haven't, probably for reasons I haven't thought about. yes, getting the pkg-plist as a result of the actual install invokation would make sense. >=20 > > - with that step we also could package sendmail and bind out of the base > > system ;-) hint-hint >=20 > sendmail sucks. I think this comes back to the issue of taste. First thin= g I > do after an install once I've secured it down, etc. is get sendmail off t= he > box and exim in place instead. If that was an option at install time > (sendmail was never even on the box in the first place) I would jump up a= nd > down and smile. And stuff. >=20 > > - package signature verification would also be a nice thing to have, > > especially with signature fetching over the net >=20 > Still open to abuse. To really secure that you would need to put in measu= res > to prevent man-in-the-middle attacks, etc. Good idea though. i simply do not get your point. you could do that with a http/ssl enabled fetch client that knows the server certificate -- if that one is compromised you're hosed, i know, but it improves package integrity checking and security related stuff. compared to the current mechanism this would be a lightyear leap. > it was written very spontaneously, don't expect it to cover all aspects... > Yeah, all seems to make sense. I think python might be a choice that will > raise some eyebrows, but on the whole it seems pretty cool. the choice of python for such a thing originates from a few key features: - you can strip down the interpreter to a bare minimum, keeping it small - python2 with batteries-included libs/bindings make it runtime extendable - you can distribute bytecode for all the modules which also cuts down overall size - it encourages average programmers to stick to a way good style which keeps the code readable and open to engineering - in-code documentation - debugging is much easier than with perl/tcl/... - it is not just an OO extension of a known language, thus it has no legacy stuff inside - it is fast - it is easily extendable - you can pickle() any instantiated object (serialize and put to a file) /k --=20 > Motto of the Electrical Engineer: > Working computer hardware is a lot like an erect penis: it > stays up as long as you don't fuck with it. KR433/KR11-RIPE -- WebMonster Community Founder -- nGENn GmbH Senior Techie http://www.webmonster.de/ -- ftp://ftp.webmonster.de/ -- http://www.ngenn.n= et/ karsten&rohrbach.de -- alpha&ngenn.net -- alpha&scene.org -- catch@spam.de GnuPG 0x2964BF46 2001-03-15 42F9 9FFF 50D4 2F38 DBEE DF22 3340 4F4E 2964 B= F46 Please do not remove my address from To: and Cc: fields in mailing lists. 1= 0x --eNMatiwYGLtwo1cJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7TcqFM0BPTilkv0YRAhmhAJ42PRjIOnNmK0YpUNv0GdbsJPrVegCfQGbT MCpSZX+VtRg46eJkFs+7ysE= =h0cy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --eNMatiwYGLtwo1cJ-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 9:38:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.yogotech.com (ns.yogotech.com [206.127.123.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65BA137B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:38:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@yogotech.com) Received: from nomad.yogotech.com (nomad.yogotech.com [206.127.123.131]) by ns.yogotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12899; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:38:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@nomad.yogotech.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by nomad.yogotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03410; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:37:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate) From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15181.53862.769062.117188@nomad.yogotech.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:37:58 -0600 (MDT) To: bmah@packetdesign.com Cc: Greg Black , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Development for older FreeBSD releases In-Reply-To: <200107112132.f6BLWNb81831@nimitz.packetdesign.com> References: <200107112113.f6BLDgQ81686@nimitz.packetdesign.com> <200107112132.f6BLWNb81831@nimitz.packetdesign.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Building a new development box from a set of 2.2.8 CDs would > > certainly be a simple and guaranteed method if that's an option > > for you. > > Unfortunately it's not guaranteed...a lot of new hardware has been > released since December 1998 (the date of 2.2.8-RELEASE). :-p Why is that important? I've got brand-new boxes running 2.2.8-R w/out any problems. Occasionally I needed to back-port an ethernet driver or fix, but otherwise things work fine. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 9:55:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jake.akitanet.co.uk (jake.akitanet.co.uk [212.1.130.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34AC137B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:55:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wiggy@wopr.akitanet.co.uk) Received: from dsl-212-135-208-201.dsl.easynet.co.uk ([212.135.208.201] helo=wopr.akitanet.co.uk) by jake.akitanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #3) id 15Kjjl-000Osw-00; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 17:54:49 +0100 Received: from wiggy by wopr.akitanet.co.uk with local (Exim 3.21 #2) id 15Kjka-000Oms-00; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 17:55:40 +0100 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 17:55:39 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: Julian Elischer Cc: Leo Bicknell , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Network performance tuning. Message-ID: <20010712175539.B93119@jake.akitanet.co.uk> References: <20010711195021.A89324@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from julian@elischer.org on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 07:37:41PM -0700 X-Scanner: exiscan *15Kjjl-000Osw-00*$AK$gBHD9jRl0Gl4XK8NXIQDT/* Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jul 12, Julian Elischer wrote: > AND we still don't have a working standard SACK implementation. When I asked about SACK about 18 months ago (IIRC), the general consensus was that it was a pile of crap, and that FBSD SHOULDN'T implement it if possible. I however, agree that there are a lot of things in SACK that would massively benefit FBSD's net performance. > > of running out of clusters way before MBUF's.) > > This CAN be set separatly I think.. I'd like to see where... -- Paul Robinson ,--------------------------------------- Technical Director @ Akita | A computer lets you make more mistakes PO Box 604, Manchester, M60 3PR | than any other invention with the T: +44 (0) 161 228 6388 (F:6389)| possible exceptions of handguns and | Tequila - Mitch Ratcliffe `----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 10: 5:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jake.akitanet.co.uk (jake.akitanet.co.uk [212.1.130.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15E7C37B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:05:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wiggy@wopr.akitanet.co.uk) Received: from dsl-212-135-208-201.dsl.easynet.co.uk ([212.135.208.201] helo=wopr.akitanet.co.uk) by jake.akitanet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #3) id 15Kjts-000P9w-00; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:05:16 +0100 Received: from wiggy by wopr.akitanet.co.uk with local (Exim 3.21 #2) id 15Kjuh-000PLN-00; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:06:07 +0100 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:06:07 +0100 From: Paul Robinson To: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" Cc: Terry Lambert , Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getting rid of sysinstall - Was: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010712180607.C93119@jake.akitanet.co.uk> References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <20010711190247.D52923@mail.webmonster.de> <20010712154432.N53408@jake.akitanet.co.uk> <20010712180421.F91396@mail.webmonster.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <20010712180421.F91396@mail.webmonster.de>; from karsten@rohrbach.de on Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 06:04:22PM +0200 X-Scanner: exiscan *15Kjts-000P9w-00*$AK$CcaawnUrzNZddu/JNcC6i1* Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jul 12, "Karsten W. Rohrbach" wrote: =20 > perl might be superior in features at first glance but it has=20 > serious deficiencies in the resulting code style, due to it's nature it > not simply enables programmers to do bad things[tm] but almost enforces > them to do so. A sloppy programmer in one language is a sloppy programmer in all languages. Just because the language looks neater and more formal, doesn't mean it's any more 'correct' (and yes, my BEng is Software Engineering and I get all evangelical about this). The advantage to Perl, if done properly, is that it allows more people who already know the language to become involved in improving the code. However, we run the risk here of getting into a flamewar over language preference. =20 > simultaneously, over the network onto a configuration storage server. > due to the object access abstraction it does not really matter what kind > of server this is -- it could be a filesystem hierarchy, ldap, corba, > you name it. Which means to 'playback' the install session you would need to get networking up along with something that will talk ldap/corba/whatever before you had even allocated disk space. Turns things around a little bit, but it's a reasonable idea if it can be done. =20 > i do not see a problem with giving properties to instances in an > installer, storing them somewhere, and re-use them for subsequent > installs on similar pieces of hardware. Neither do I, I just think we need to clarify where the data is being stored, how, and how that data can be brought over to a machine being installed. =20 > as you might have read between the lines of my comment, this would be an > option, and i just mentioned it to keep the folks happy that think they > could solve nearly every single one of their business problems with xml. Heh. I'm behind on that one - bought 'Learning XML' this morning. I'm sure I will become an evangelist of that next. =20 > yes, getting the pkg-plist as a result of the actual install invokation > would make sense. In fact, I might knock up some code for that later. Unless somebody else points out where it's going to go wrong, of course. =20 > > > - package signature verification would also be a nice thing to have, > > > especially with signature fetching over the net > >=20 > > Still open to abuse. To really secure that you would need to put in mea= sures > > to prevent man-in-the-middle attacks, etc. Good idea though. >=20 > i simply do not get your point. you could do that with a http/ssl > enabled fetch client that knows the server certificate -- if that one is > compromised you're hosed, i know, but it improves package integrity > checking and security related stuff. compared to the current mechanism > this would be a lightyear leap. There is a problem here in that install media effectively becomes useless if the server certificate ever gets compromised or changed. I see what you're saying, I'm just not sure if the long-term usability issues are being addressed properly here. =20 > the choice of python for such a thing originates from a few key > features: > - you can strip down the interpreter to a bare minimum, keeping it small As you can with Perl, or just write it in C in the first place. ;-) > - in-code documentation Ummm... I'm pretty sure all languages to be considered for the task would have the capability to use comments in the code. :-) > - debugging is much easier than with perl/tcl/... Debatable. > - it is not just an OO extension of a known language, thus it has no > legacy stuff inside 'Legacy stuff' sometimes is a good thing to have. Again, it depends on what exactly you mean. I understand all your reasons, I would just be worried that you're making the choice because it's your favourite language, when ultimately we should be thinking about what the rest of the world would like to use. Python is a good language, I would just reccomend not jumping in right away. --=20 Paul Robinson ,--------------------------------------- Technical Director @ Akita | A computer lets you make more mistakes PO Box 604, Manchester, M60 3PR | than any other invention with the=20 T: +44 (0) 161 228 6388 (F:6389)| possible exceptions of handguns and | Tequila - Mitch Ratcliffe `----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 10: 8:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx01-a.netapp.com (mx01-a.netapp.com [198.95.226.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C56837B403 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:08:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from boshea@netapp.com) Received: from frejya.corp.netapp.com (frejya.corp.netapp.com [10.10.20.91]) by mx01-a.netapp.com (8.11.1/8.11.1/NTAP-1.2) with ESMTP id f6CH8fK15435 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shaolin.hq.netapp.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by frejya.corp.netapp.com (8.11.1/8.11.1/NTAP-1.2) with ESMTP id f6CH8fD17416 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from boshea@localhost) by shaolin.hq.netapp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14635 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:08:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from boshea) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:08:40 -0700 From: "Brian O'Shea" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Making an existing VMware virtual disk "dangerously dedicated" Message-ID: <20010712100840.G401@shaolin.hq.netapp.com> Reply-To: boshea@netapp.com Mail-Followup-To: Brian O'Shea , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I have installed FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE in a VMware virtual machine (more background information[1] at the end of this message) and I've found that I can not boot the system without first booting from CD and then loading the kernel from the virtual disk. If I try to boot from the virtual disk, it hangs after printing: F1 FreeBSD Default: F1 (Yes, I tried pressing F1) At this point, the only option is to reset the system, boot from CD, load the kernel from the virtual disk, and boot: BTX loader 1.00 BTX version is 1.01 Console: internal video/keyboard BIOS drive A: is disk0 BIOS drive B: is disk1 BIOS drive C: is disk2 BIOS 636kB/130048kB available memory FreeBSD/i386 bootstrap loader, Revision 0.8 (jkh@bento.FreeBSD.org, Mon Nov 20 11:41:23 GMT 2000) - Hit [Enter] to boot immediately, or any other key for command prompt. Booting [kernel] in 9 seconds... Type '?' for a list of commands, 'help' for more detailed help. ok load disk2s1a:/kernel ok boot So, I would like to try skipping this stage and making the virtual disk fully dedicated (i.e. no boot manager). I looked this up in the handbook and it gave some instructions, which I tried. It didn't seem to work: (from ) # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/ad2 count=2 # disklabel /dev/ad2 | disklabel -B -R -r ad2 /dev/stdin Note: I wouldn't be doing the above if I didn't have a backup from which I knew I could restore my system. The disklabel(8) man page was also helpful, however I couldn't figure out how to use disklabel to make an existing disk fully dedicated. If there is no way to do this, I will re-install the system. This is a good option, although it is difficult to get it to work because it usually panics while probing devices. Any help is much appreciated. Regards, -brian 1. Background: Intel Pentium III 700MHz VMware GSX Server 1.0.1 Build 999 running on Linux kernel 2.2.14-5.0 FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE installed in a virtual machine Disk type is VMware virtual disk (i.e. not a physical partition) -- Brian O'Shea To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 10:18:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from clio.sc.intel.com (scfdns01.sc.intel.com [143.183.152.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE8C37B405 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:18:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jreynold@sedona.ch.intel.com) Received: from sedona.intel.com (sedona.ch.intel.com [143.182.218.21]) by clio.sc.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.41 2001/07/09 21:06:22 root Exp $) with ESMTP id RAA11800 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 17:18:44 GMT Received: from hip186.ch.intel.com (hip186.ch.intel.com [143.182.225.68]) by sedona.intel.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/d: sendmail.cf,v 1.14 2001/01/02 18:39:59 steved Exp $) with ESMTP id KAA08143 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:18:43 -0700 (MST) X-Envelope-To: X-Envelope-From: jreynold@sedona.ch.intel.com Received: (from jreynold@localhost) by hip186.ch.intel.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/d: client.m4,v 1.3 1998/09/29 16:36:11 sedayao Exp sedayao $) id NAA10051; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:18:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: hip186.ch.intel.com: jreynold set sender to jreynold@sedona.ch.intel.com using -f From: John Reynolds~ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15181.56306.410897.853739@hip186.ch.intel.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:18:42 -0700 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: mgetty+AutoPPP pointers? X-Mailer: VM 6.93 under Emacs 20.7.2 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello all, I want to configure a server machine I have at home to answer a phone line via internal modem and setup a PPP connection to the "outside world" (the machine is connected via broadband) for a Win98 machine being the remote caller. I've read up a little on mgetty and its use of AutoPPP to fire off pppd via various google searches. Many of the links I've brought up are reasonably decent explanations, but based around Linux setups. Does anybody have any bookmarked pointers to setting up mgetty+AutoPPP under FreeBSD -STABLE? I've dug through a few bits and I know our in-tree compilation of pppd is compiled with -DCHAPMS (which the Linux-related pointers said to make sure you used when compiling pppd) and our port of mgetty+sendfax does define -DAUTO_PPP during compilation (which was another "must"). Is there anything else that is needed to enable the code to DTRT? If anybody has done this sort of thing and wishes to share config files, or "gotchas" I would much appreciate it! Please 'cc:' me. After grepping the archives, it looks like this topic has come up a lot with varied answers but no real "pointers." If somebody has pointers or sample config files, I would be happy to try and mark them up and submit them to the -doc project! -Jr -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | John Reynolds WCCG, CCE, (space for rent, cheap!) | | Intel Corporation MS: CH6-210 Phone: 480-554-9092 pgr: 602-868-6512 | | jreynold@sedona.ch.intel.com http://www-aec.ch.intel.com/~jreynold/ | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 10:27:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3A0037B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:27:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (InterJet.elischer.org [192.168.1.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA64455; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:06:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:06:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: boshea@netapp.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Making an existing VMware virtual disk "dangerously dedicated" In-Reply-To: <20010712100840.G401@shaolin.hq.netapp.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Brian O'Shea wrote: I run FreeBSD under FreeBSD (for kernel debugging) it "just ran" after I installed it.. (of course it was they workstation version..) maybe the server version confuses the bootblocks. Does it think that it's ruinning headless? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 10:32:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A92D637B420; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:32:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.245.133.118.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.245.133.118]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15546; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:31:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4DDF30.9CEAAAFB@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:32:32 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG, Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <20010709144801.A38630@dragon.nuxi.com> <3B4B26FE.6660FE5C@mindspring.com> <20010710091352.F48544@dragon.nuxi.com> <3B4B3A58.A6CFC592@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > David O'Brien wrote: > > There you go Terry, async mounts for installs. > > Thanks. > > This does not appear to work on upgrades for things > like /usr/ports. > > Now I will have to go find out why; how annoying: yet > more work. OK, I was right. The damn thing is not mounting async. There are a couple of reasons for this, when doing an upgrade: 1) Soft Updates enabled on a root partition. This comes back to the old "you can't turn SU on or off, except via tunefs". So even if you boot via CDROM, it's too late, if the CDROM kernel supports SU, since it's already on, and you can't substitute an async mount. Soft Updates are OK for a moderate amount of file replacement activity, but wholesale work is better done with async mounts. So what's needed is a way for async to take precedence (by flushing all pending updates, and updating the mount type). So the new default of "SU on" actually will interfere with upgrades (we do this from release snapshots I have built all the time, and we do it to recover lab and engineering machines to a known good state, before applying the most recent local changes). 2) Most of my upgrades are over a network, not booting off of CDROM. This means that it's not running as "init", so David's if() test he quoted me failed to attempt to activate async mounts; we don't have the option on a machine with a serial console and no floppy or CDROM to be able to select network booting, even though on some of the machines, there are Intel Netboot capable FXP cards. 3) The default in 4.3-RELEASE is to have the IDE write caching off. This is probably the biggest barrier to fast install/upgrade. It's not really possible to get around this on initial install, but on many of the machines, where we are doing the upgrade over an NFS mount with a copy of the sysinstall from the floppy image from the CDROM, (why isn't this duplicated on the CDROM anywhwere?) it's possible to turn on the write caching at boot time, and do an upgrade (NOT an install!) with the write caching enabled. The async mount still does not take place, because of the soft updates. NB: Yes, I'm aware this has been changed in the source tree, but it is not available on and CDROM distributions currently available. 4) I'm pretty sure that during a regular install, the default of newfs'ing with soft updates enabled is now _also_ preventing the use of true async mounts; again, for the most part, with only new file data, this is pretty fast, but you are once again up the creek without a paddle when it comes to installing the ports collection. So that's the status: for new installs, the complaint holds true for all upgrade cases, and the default install case for things with bad locality of reference (like ports). Hope this clarifies things. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 10:33: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp-out.hamburg.pop.de (smtp-out.hamburg.pop.de [195.222.210.86]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC76437B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:32:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ) Received: from mail.hamburg.pop.de ([193.98.9.7] helo=mail.provi.de) by smtp-out.hamburg.pop.de with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15KkLO-0001gR-00 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:33:42 +0200 Received: from daemon by mail.provi.de with local (Exim 3.20 #2) id 15KkKZ-00077q-00 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:32:51 +0200 From: To: Subject: mail failed, returning to sender X-No-Resend: True Message-Id: Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:32:51 +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG |------------------------- Message log follows: -----------------------| | no valid recipients were found for this message | |----------------------------------------------------------------------| | t.schmeissel@mail.hh.provi.de - unknown user |----------------------------------------------------------------------| German translation: Sie haben Ihre eMail an die Adresse "t.schmeissel@mail.hh.provi.de" gerichtet. Der hintere Teil der Adresse ("Domain"), "@mail.hh.provi.de", ist gueltig, der Benutzernamen jedoch nicht. Ueberpruefen Sie bitte insbesondere diesen Teil der eMail-Adresse! Sie erhalten im Anhang die ersten zehn Zeilen Ihrer Original-eMail zurueck. Mit freundlichen Gruessen, Point of Presence GmbH, Hamburg ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers-digest@freebsd.org Thu Jul 12 19:32:50 2001 Return-path: Envelope-to: t.schmeissel@mail.hh.provi.de Delivery-date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:32:50 +0200 Received: from mx2.freebsd.org ([216.136.204.119]) by mail.provi.de with smtp (Exim 3.20 #2) id 15KkKX-00077Y-00 for t.schmeissel@mail.hh.provi.de; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:32:49 +0200 Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46FFD56213; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:32:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers-digest@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 538) id 9A87F37B40B; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 60AA12E8033; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:32:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers-digest) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:32:31 -0700 From: owner-freebsd-hackers-digest@FreeBSD.ORG (freebsd-hackers-digest) To: freebsd-hackers-digest@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: freebsd-hackers-digest V5 #177 Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers-digest@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:32:32 -0700 (PDT) freebsd-hackers-digest Thursday, July 12 2001 Volume 05 : Number 177 In this issue: mail failed, returning to sender Re: Development for older FreeBSD releases Re: mail failed, returning to sender Re: Intel ISP1100 or similar 1U experience with 4.3 stable To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 10:35:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from colnta.acns.ab.ca (h24-68-206-125.sbm.shawcable.net [24.68.206.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F6C137B403 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:35:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davidc@colnta.acns.ab.ca) Received: (from davidc@localhost) by colnta.acns.ab.ca (8.11.4/8.11.3) id f6CHZGc85178 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:35:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from davidc) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:35:16 -0600 From: Chad David To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Changes in VM Message-ID: <20010712113516.A85127@colnta.acns.ab.ca> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can someone comment on when the major changes in the FreeBSD VM system took place? Was it in 2.x? Has much of the basic design changed since? Would I be correct in saying that most of the work was done by John Dyson and David Greenman with Matt Dillon getting heavily involved in the 3.x era? Thanks. Chad To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 10:40:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7922E37B403 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:40:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.245.133.118.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.245.133.118]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27999; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:40:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4DE132.89F465F6@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:41:06 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Moran Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <3B4B07DE.4801D208@iowna.com> <3B4B3798.31B4B8E1@mindspring.com> <3B4B407D.CD189F6C@iowna.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Moran wrote: > OTOH: I don't see this as causing sysinstall's partition editor > to be bad/worthless. How many other installers allow partition > resizing (I don't know) Just add this feature (I'm not saying > it would be easy, I'm saying that it doesn't require scrapping > the existing system to add it, and lack of it does not > invalidiate the quality/usefulness of what currently exists.) It's actually a very large job. But last time I checked, NT supported this in its install process, and Partition Magic certainly supports it, and there is a cut-down version distributed with a linux distribution (Caldera? It would make sense: both companies are located in Utah, just outside Provo). > > You suggested that people keep up to date using "cvsup"; > > Don't remember saying that, but I probably did ;) > > > but doing that won't result in new categories showing up > > in "sysinstall", nor in your local packages archive being > > updated to match your "cvsup" sources. > > You missed my point. I'm not defending sysintall in the > previous paragraph. I'm defending an overall system maintenance > utility that can be used for general stuff like changing > network config, adding users, adding/removing software, etc. > sysinstall does this now (whether badly or not). I have no problem with an overall utility -- my argument is (and has been) that the lack of registration of base components into the packages system results in the tool not being "overall". Probably the best example of an overall utility would be the Windows control panel "Add or Remove Programs", "Windows Setup" dialog tab (which, when you look at it, bears a strong resemblence to the sysinstall checkbox menus). Perhaps the biggest single thing seen in configuration control questions for FreeBSD is how to replace sendmail or some other program with a service-level equivalent. > My point is only this: Do NOT assume that sysinstall is ONLY > used during initial installation. It currently has the ability > to help out long after the system is installed. Any utility > that replaces it should be able to do the same. Certainly. It should be a general configuration control utility. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 10:50:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 973D537B406 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:50:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Bsdguru@aol.com) Received: from Bsdguru@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id i.15.16ffaf54 (4415); Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:50:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Bsdguru@aol.com Message-ID: <15.16ffaf54.287f3d4d@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:50:05 EDT Subject: Re: Network performance tuning. To: bicknell@ufp.org, hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In a message dated 07/11/2001 7:51:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bicknell@ufp.org writes: > So, bottom line, in the end I would like a FreeBSD host that out > of the box can get 2-4 MBytes/sec across country (or better), but > that manages it in such a way that your standard web server running > on a FreeBSD box doesn't fall over. Is it just a pipe dream, or > can we make that happen with a little effort? > Of course if everyone on the internet does this, you are back to square one. The window is there for flow control and data integrity. You seek to undermine those concepts, which doesnt seem like a good idea for an "out of the box" operating system B To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 10:56:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (ussenterprise.ufp.org [208.185.30.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2217F37B405 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:56:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bicknell@ussenterprise.ufp.org) Received: (from bicknell@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f6CHuTq49102 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:56:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bicknell) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:56:29 -0400 From: Leo Bicknell To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Network performance tuning. Message-ID: <20010712135629.A49042@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mail-Followup-To: Leo Bicknell , hackers@freebsd.org References: <15.16ffaf54.287f3d4d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <15.16ffaf54.287f3d4d@aol.com>; from Bsdguru@aol.com on Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 01:50:05PM -0400 Organization: United Federation of Planets Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 01:50:05PM -0400, Bsdguru@aol.com wrote: > The window is there for flow control and data integrity. You seek to > undermine those concepts, which doesnt seem like a good idea for an "out of > the box" operating system Not at all. Nothing I've suggested removes the window, or changes the flow control properties in any way at all. What I've suggested is that we remove an outside, artifical limiting force, so those mechanisms can actually do what is intended. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org Systems Engineer - Internetworking Engineer - CCIE 3440 Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 10:58: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [206.40.252.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B42EA37B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:58:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6CHw1T17552; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:58:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:58:01 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010712105801.B13401@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <20010709144801.A38630@dragon.nuxi.com> <3B4B26FE.6660FE5C@mindspring.com> <20010710091352.F48544@dragon.nuxi.com> <3B4B3A58.A6CFC592@mindspring.com> <3B4DDF30.9CEAAAFB@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B4DDF30.9CEAAAFB@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 10:32:32AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 10:32:32AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > 1) Soft Updates enabled on a root partition. > > This comes back to the old "you can't turn SU > on or off, except via tunefs". So even if you > boot via CDROM, it's too late, if the CDROM > kernel supports SU, since it's already on, and > you can't substitute an async mount. Why not? The install kernel does not have SOFTUPDATES enabled. Can one not mount a parition aync if the softupdates flag was set via tunefs in the past [and the running kernel does not support them]? > 2) Most of my upgrades are over a network, not > booting off of CDROM. How are you running sysinstall? I do not know what you mean by "over the network". To me that means you have made the two boot floppy set and used that -- the "network" part is where you are getting your distribution sets from. In this case, you *are* running sysinstal as init. Perhaps I do not fully understand how you are doing this. > 3) The default in 4.3-RELEASE is to have the IDE > write caching off. If you submit a patch to add the proper entries to /boot/loader.conf in the MFSROOT image, I'd commit it. This would ensure the installation process always runs with write cashing on. - -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 11: 0:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx01-a.netapp.com (mx01-a.netapp.com [198.95.226.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCAC637B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:00:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from boshea@netapp.com) Received: from frejya.corp.netapp.com (frejya.corp.netapp.com [10.10.20.91]) by mx01-a.netapp.com (8.11.1/8.11.1/NTAP-1.2) with ESMTP id f6CHxRX18956; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:59:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shaolin.hq.netapp.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by frejya.corp.netapp.com (8.11.1/8.11.1/NTAP-1.2) with ESMTP id f6CHxQs28065; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:59:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from boshea@localhost) by shaolin.hq.netapp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14818; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:59:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from boshea) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:59:26 -0700 From: "Brian O'Shea" To: Julian Elischer Cc: boshea@netapp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Making an existing VMware virtual disk "dangerously dedicated" Message-ID: <20010712105926.H401@shaolin.hq.netapp.com> Reply-To: boshea@netapp.com Mail-Followup-To: Brian O'Shea , Julian Elischer , boshea@netapp.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010712100840.G401@shaolin.hq.netapp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: ; from julian@elischer.org on Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 12:06:29PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 12:06:29PM -0700, Julian Elischer wrote: > > maybe the server version confuses the bootblocks. > Does it think that it's ruinning headless? I don't think so. The BTX loader reports this: BTX loader 1.00 BTX version is 1.01 Console: internal video/keyboard I can boot successfully from CD and then load the kernel from the virtual disk. It just seems to be a problem with the boot manager. Is your system installed on a physical disk partition or a VMware virtual disk? Also, what version of FreeBSD are you running? Thanks, -brian -- Brian O'Shea To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 11: 1: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B205C37B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:01:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.245.133.118.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.245.133.118]) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12515; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4DE5FA.2DC98A1F@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:01:30 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Moran Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD & Ad Hoc Networking References: <200107100332.UAA13663@usr01.primenet.com> <3B4B0856.A67F02FD@iowna.com> <3B4B3866.FBFF9A65@mindspring.com> <3B4B420C.1947DABE@iowna.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Moran wrote: > Personally, I don't consider win98 a reference point > by which to model OS design. You are free to hold that opinion. We are not talking OS design, however, we are talking about participation in a network, and what constitutes a "good network citizen". > When you say win98 and above do you include the NT > line (win2k)? Yes. All versions of Windows since Windows 98 have used the same strategy for establishing ad hoc networks. > With the _current_ IPv4 network, I don't see any > good reason for servers to use DHCP, and FreeBSD is > primarily a server OS, so why should it default > to DHCP? Because on a heterogeneous network, the DHCP controller is most likely to be an NT box, since Microsoft makes your network suck, unless it gets to supply the DHCP controller, or unless you are willing to change FreeBSD's implementation to interoperate with their Domain Controller system, and participate in Elections, etc.. If you can supply the schema and patches to the OpenLDAP and FreeBSD projects so that we can do this, I'm sure people would consider not installing NT DHCP servers... > > The "link.local" draft RFC for doing the > > IPv4 stateless autoconfiguration was coauthored by a > > Microsoft employee. > > I'm not familiar with the standards you reference > above, what's the RFC#? See the section at the bottom of the "Zero Configuration Networking (ZEROCONF)" working group page: http://ietf.org/html.charters/zeroconf-charter.html > > See the IETF "ZEROCONF" working group for more details: > > this stuff is going to be part of the standards soon. > > Possibly. But then again, IPv6 will change a number of the > rules as we know them. Which will be adopted and come into > widespread use first is a matter for fortune tellers. The U.S. has the stupid idea that NAT will solve all of the IPv4 address space problems, forever. Like GSM, expect the U.S. to be the absolute last to deploy IPv6. Expect it to take _years_. China has lodged an official diplomatic protest about the IPv4 address space allocations, already. The two U.S. industry segments that could have pushed IPv6 forward in the U.S. have not: (1) any cable or other private network plant provider (e.g. AT&T@Home, TCI, Cox Cable, etc.) could have pushed it onto their own network, and NAT'ed IPv4 to the rest of the non-IPv6 world. The barriers to them doing this have been adoption of IPv6 in Windows, as a technology installed on Windows boxes by default, and the terminal equipment ("Cable modem/router") additional costs that would result from having to put an IPv6<->IPv4 gateway there to route around Microsofts damage. AND (2) The Cellular phone network providers, who wish each phone to have an IP address (e.g. Ericson was quite adamant about this in several heated IETF discussions), so that they can be addressed to push content at the user. Note that this applies to pager networks, as well. So until the United States gets off its collective ass, I rather doubt you will be able to have FreeBSD hide from the ad hoc networking realities forever. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 11:13:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (cust-P5-R3-112.POOL.ESR.SJO.wwc.com [206.112.106.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC7D037B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:13:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6CIPNd00923; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:25:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200107121825.f6CIPNd00923@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Christoph Kukulies Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren_Schmidt?= , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ATAPI support In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:13:41 +0200." <20010712121341.D22288@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:25:22 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > We support ATAPI devices and has been for a long time (also CD burner= s)... > = > I believe I forgot to do a group reply on my previous reply > to S=F8ren. > = > OK, it seems a misunderstanding of the term ATAPI. > The author of cdrecord, Joerg Schilling, told me - I will translate: > = > Citation: > = > "You havn't understood what ATAPI is! Schilly has some funny ideas about what ATAPI is as well. > ATAPI *is* SCSI over IDE transport. Thus a SCSI system has to have > a hostadapter driver for the IDE bus. There's no "has to" about it. And this isn't entirely correct either; = one needs to read the relevant SFF802x specifications, particularly the = parts where they state their intention to deviate further from SCSI in = the future. > *All* OSs despite FreeBSD do that right. Under Linux unfortunately > it isn't the default." He's entitled to his opinion; don't mistake it for fact. -- = =2E.. every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 11:15: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (iclub.nsu.ru [193.124.222.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9807037B401; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:14:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from localhost (fjoe@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6CIEqI25601; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:14:53 +0700 (NSS) (envelope-from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:14:51 +0700 (NSS) From: Max Khon To: "David O'Brien" Cc: Terry Lambert , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <20010712105801.B13401@dragon.nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi, there! On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, David O'Brien wrote: > > 3) The default in 4.3-RELEASE is to have the IDE > > write caching off. > > If you submit a patch to add the proper entries to /boot/loader.conf in > the MFSROOT image, I'd commit it. This would ensure the installation > process always runs with write cashing on. write caching is on by default (again) in RELENG_4 since 2001/05/31 /fjoe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 11:26:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA92A37B403 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:26:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.245.133.118.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.245.133.118]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09426; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4DEBDF.8396ECBA@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:26:39 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Rasputin , Jamie Bowden , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <200107100731.f6A7VxR05700@panix1.panix.com> <20010710125613.A51035@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <3B4B33DA.242EFDDC@mindspring.com> <20010711112054.D93534@lpt.ens.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > Also, you should be aware that in commercial deployment, > > having a compiler on board the system is often considered > > a bad thing, as it permits entre to exploiters bringing > > their own programs onto the system. > > I've seen people disable compilers before, but I haven't understood > how it helps. You can compile elsewhere and bring the binary onto the > system, can't you? Unless the system is some extremely rare OS or > doesn't ship with a compiler at all -- neither of which is true of > FreeBSD. You aren't thinking like an embedded systems developer trying to sell a box with no moving parts into a telco that requires such things, with the cost of a 1G flash sitting at ~$2,600/unit. You also aren't thinking like a TrustedBSD "Without my compiler, your executables will have the wrong cryptographic signatures, and my OS will refuse to run them" wonk... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 11:31:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E615637B406 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:31:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.245.133.118.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.245.133.118]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04373; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4DED00.75ADF2D9@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:31:28 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Robinson Cc: Noses , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <3B4A7D9C.A64230D9@softweyr.com> <200107111124.f6BBO9B46455@proxon.bnc.net> <20010711125134.D56234@jake.akitanet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Paul Robinson wrote: > > I guess you're wrong; it is actually easier to tell > > customers to use /stand/sysinstall for package management > > and configuration of /etc/rc.conf than having them attack > > delicate parts of the system with clumsy fingers. > > Never mind customers, I like to use it myself. I'm not really > somebody who wants to get into how to build X and KDE, so > when I do need it on a box, I just use all the stuff in > /stand/sysinstall You have motivated me to do True Evil. Alfred knows what I'm talking about... no more until the True Evil is done. PS: the True Evil in question has more to do with the "clumbsy fingers" comment than it does the remainder of this discussion... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 11:32:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail11.disney.com (mail11.disney.com [208.246.35.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE40F37B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:32:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Jim.Pirzyk@disney.com) Received: from panic10.noceast.dws.disney.com (panic10.corp.disney.com [153.6.129.169]) by mail11.disney.com (Switch-2.0.1/Switch-2.0.1) with SMTP id f6CIuft00764 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:56:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.30.50.1] by panic.noceast.dws.disney.com with ESMTP for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:14:54 -0400 Received: from plio.fan.fa.disney.com (plio.fan.fa.disney.com [153.7.118.2]) by pecos.fa.disney.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6CIIVs08718 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.fan.fa.disney.com (mercury.fan.fa.disney.com [153.7.119.1]) by plio.fan.fa.disney.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA16308 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:14:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Jim.Pirzyk@disney.com) Received: from snoopy.fan.fa.disney.com by mercury.fan.fa.disney.com for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:14:52 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Jim Pirzyk Organization: Walt Disney Feature Animation To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: kern.bootfile sysctl and installing new kernel Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:14:52 -0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01071211145201.00645@snoopy> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I though in the past when you installed a new kernel that the sysctl kern.bootfile was changed to be /kernel.old (this is under FreeBSD 4.3-RELEASE), but looking at the makefile, this is no longer the case. Was this done for a reason? - JimP -- --- @(#) $Id: dot.signature,v 1.10 2001/05/17 23:38:49 Jim.Pirzyk Exp $ __o Jim.Pirzyk@disney.com ------------- pirzyk@freebsd.org _'\<,_ Senior Systems Engineer, Walt Disney Feature Animation (*)/ (*) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 11:33:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [206.40.252.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED0C037B405 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:33:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6CIWUJ17995; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:32:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:32:25 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Max Khon Cc: Terry Lambert , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010712113225.C13401@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010712105801.B13401@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru on Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 01:14:51AM +0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 01:14:51AM +0700, Max Khon wrote: > hi, there! > > On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, David O'Brien wrote: > > > > 3) The default in 4.3-RELEASE is to have the IDE > > > write caching off. > > > > If you submit a patch to add the proper entries to /boot/loader.conf in > > the MFSROOT image, I'd commit it. This would ensure the installation > > process always runs with write cashing on. > > write caching is on by default (again) in RELENG_4 since 2001/05/31 Yes I know. The key words are "ensure" and "always" incase the default changes again. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 11:36:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD30437B403 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:36:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.245.133.118.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.245.133.118]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01851; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:36:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4DEE3E.C10A666E@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:36:46 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Moran Cc: Joseph Mallett , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010711122814.D3021-100000@Aphex.NewGold.NET> <3B4C481B.D817A2B8@iowna.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bill Moran wrote: > > > Are you saying you use DHCP for servers? If so, maybe > > > I should shut up and listen for a while because > > > apparently there's something here I can learn. DNSUPDAT: You DHCP server fixes up your DNS, so that your "FILESERVER1" is always "FILESERVER1", regardless of its IP address. > > I did for a long time because I simply couldn't get a > > static IP from my ISP. Hell, I'd love to use it now, > > then I wouldn't have to make sure I hardcode the > > IP/route/netmask/etc. into all my startup scripts on > > every box. But maybe convenience is a bad thing. > > Hmmm ... but I'm talking about servers in general. It's > one thing to have a dynamic IP on the outside of a > firewall machine, but do you have a dynamic IP on the > inside? Do other servers use dynamic IPs when they aren't > forced to? Sure. You aren't supposed to find services with DNS, anyway: you are supposed to use SLP. See http://www.openslp.org/ ...I did the patches that made it so it would compile and run on FreeBSD, and they included them. You should also note the BSD license on the code... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 12:18:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DC1337B401; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:18:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.245.133.118.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.245.133.118]) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16322; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:18:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4DF83C.939061AD@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:19:24 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <20010709144801.A38630@dragon.nuxi.com> <3B4B26FE.6660FE5C@mindspring.com> <20010710091352.F48544@dragon.nuxi.com> <3B4B3A58.A6CFC592@mindspring.com> <3B4DDF30.9CEAAAFB@mindspring.com> <20010712105801.B13401@dragon.nuxi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David O'Brien wrote: > > 1) Soft Updates enabled on a root partition. > > > > This comes back to the old "you can't turn SU > > on or off, except via tunefs". So even if you > > boot via CDROM, it's too late, if the CDROM > > kernel supports SU, since it's already on, and > > you can't substitute an async mount. > > Why not? The install kernel does not have SOFTUPDATES enabled. > Can one not mount a parition aync if the softupdates flag was set via > tunefs in the past [and the running kernel does not support them]? No. The tunefs flag takes precedence. Look at the FFS code. I've submitted patches once in the past, which basically converted the "update" of mounts into an unmount+remount, but that was shot down as a "bad idea". The problem is that you have to wait for the clock to drain, since the device you use might be something like a vn, also on a soft updates partition. It gets messy. The initial mount, even if taken care of, will not get me where I need to be, as upgrades are more frequent than initial installs. I expect that the rest of the FreeBSD community has this experience as well (this bodes ill for the growth of FreeBSD adoption, but that is a -advocacy topic). > > 2) Most of my upgrades are over a network, not > > booting off of CDROM. > > How are you running sysinstall? I do not know what you > mean by "over the network". To me that means you have > made the two boot floppy set and used that -- the "network" > part is where you are getting your distribution sets from. > In this case, you *are* running sysinstal as init. Perhaps > I do not fully understand how you are doing this. I have no floppy. I have no CDROM. I have no video card or keyboard, so I can't invoke the Intel FXP BIOS etherboot code. I have only a serial console, a network connection, and a hard disk. -------------------------------------------------------- Terry's magic embedded system upgrade procedure, Mark I To be run at the console, logged in as root ... -------------------------------------------------------- echo "This crap should be accessible on the CD, but isn't" ftp machine.installed.from.cdrom cd /stand lcd /tmp get sysinstall cd /dev get MAKEDEV get MAKEDEV.local quit mount nfs.server.with.cdrom:/cdrom /mnt cd /tmp echo "Must use a fricking matching sysinstall..." chmod 755 sysinstall ./sysinstall upgrade local disk = /mnt force the S.O.B. to install /src... exit echo "non-boot sysinstall 'can't be bothered' with this..." cp MAKEDEV /dev cp MAKEDEV.local /dev cp sysinstall /stand/sysinstall cd /dev sh MAKEDEV all echo "What were they thinking when they changes this?!?" cd /etc cat >> pam.conf # this is crap for ssh because ssh won't work otherwise sshd ... sshd ... sshd ... ^D sync sync sync reboot -------------------------------------------------------- Make sense now? It even works for "downgrading" your -CURRENT system to -STABLE, if you want to not crash all the time, and realize the errors of your ways in having installed -CURRENT... > > 3) The default in 4.3-RELEASE is to have the IDE > > write caching off. > > If you submit a patch to add the proper entries to > /boot/loader.conf in the MFSROOT image, I'd commit it. > This would ensure the installation process always runs > with write cashing on. I wasn't sure that this was processed correctly from the MFS image. I will look at doing a patch; but it won't help my own situation, since I don't really boot the thing in order to upgrade. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 12:28: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-73.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60A9B37B403 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:28:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 540A866B6E; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:28:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:27:59 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Giorgos Keramidas Cc: tlambert2@mindspring.com, Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010712122759.B6019@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="RASg3xLB4tUQ4RcS" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr>; from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 05:13:44AM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --RASg3xLB4tUQ4RcS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 05:13:44AM +0300, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > Terry Lambert writes: >=20 > > The base system is not registered into the packages > > system, because of sysinstall. >=20 > It's not installed from /usr/ports but from /usr/src. > I don't know if it's a good idea to have a huge > freebsd_base-5.0-current-20010624 in the packages list, or a zillion > freebsd_base-bin, freebsd_base-etc, etc. installed. FWIW, it would be a pretty trivial matter to fake up package metadata for the sysinstall distributions after they're installed. You'd just generate the plist from the contents of the distribution tarball. This would be useful for deinstalling optional collections like kerberos or the header files, which is currently impossible. Perhaps Terry would like to do this to solve one of the issues on his list: I'll be happy to work with him to get a satisfactory implementation committed. > > X11 is a distribution set, instead of a package. >=20 > But... but... I did install only those parts of X11 that I wanted. > I'm not sure I understand this claim. I'm not sure it's even correct any longer. i.e. I seem to recall X is installed as a package thesedays, not a distribution. Kris --RASg3xLB4tUQ4RcS Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7Tfo/Wry0BWjoQKURAuzEAJ98ctDT+ExCP7avHU6BXIBO7pOOVwCfV1pe h0/24H7vWCSC8hd3Z/oQZOM= =AwOd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --RASg3xLB4tUQ4RcS-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 12:29:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [206.40.252.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E5C937B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:29:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6CJTs118925; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:29:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:29:54 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010712122954.F13401@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG References: <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <20010709144801.A38630@dragon.nuxi.com> <3B4B26FE.6660FE5C@mindspring.com> <20010710091352.F48544@dragon.nuxi.com> <3B4B3A58.A6CFC592@mindspring.com> <3B4DDF30.9CEAAAFB@mindspring.com> <20010712105801.B13401@dragon.nuxi.com> <3B4DF83C.939061AD@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B4DF83C.939061AD@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 12:19:24PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 12:19:24PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > David O'Brien wrote: > > > 1) Soft Updates enabled on a root partition. > > > > > > This comes back to the old "you can't turn SU > > > on or off, except via tunefs". So even if you > > > boot via CDROM, it's too late, if the CDROM > > > kernel supports SU, since it's already on, and > > > you can't substitute an async mount. > > > > Why not? The install kernel does not have SOFTUPDATES enabled. > > Can one not mount a parition aync if the softupdates flag was set via > > tunefs in the past [and the running kernel does not support them]? > > No. The tunefs flag takes precedence. How can the tunefs flag take precedence with the kernel doesn't even have the softupdates code in it? The assumption most of us have is you are booting from either CDROM or boot floppies. Below I see that wasn't the case. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 12:30: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from server.bloodletting.com (server.bloodletting.com [66.88.118.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EC98C37B40E for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:30:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick@bloodletting.com) Received: (qmail 9621 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 19:29:19 -0000 Received: from www.bloodletting.com (66.88.118.100) by server.bloodletting.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 19:29:19 -0000 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:32:10 +0000 (GMT) From: Nick Popoff To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getting rid of sysinstall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Karsten W. Rohrbach" wrote: > - - every class has properties which can be preloaded (unattended > install functionality from 'recorded' install session or manually > generated setup) > - - remote install dialog ui using ethernet as transport (yay!) would > be a nice idea How about allowing for a pre-scripted installer which would let you do unattended installations or upgrades of FreeBSD via a PXE netboot? I love the idea of wheeling a giant cabinet of new 1U boxes into my cage, turning on the power, then standing back as they all busily boot up and install themselves. Then every time they boot again that installer could check to make sure the box was running the latest version, and do an upgrade at boot time if needed. Fun! You could then roll your own "mail server", "database", and "web server" installer scripts and have the pxe/tftp master server dynamically feed out the images which your server farm is in short supply of. You could run Yahoo with one IT guy whos main job would be weightlifting so that he'd be strong enough to wheel Rackable Systems cabinets into Exodus by himself. Okay, enough... :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 12:32: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sneakerz.org (sneakerz.org [216.33.66.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C513837B403 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:32:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@sneakerz.org) Received: by sneakerz.org (Postfix, from userid 1092) id 4768D5D010; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:32:05 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:32:05 -0500 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Nick Popoff Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getting rid of sysinstall Message-ID: <20010712143205.D4589@sneakerz.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from nick@bloodletting.com on Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 12:32:10PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Nick Popoff [010712 14:30] wrote: > > "Karsten W. Rohrbach" wrote: > > - - every class has properties which can be preloaded (unattended > > install functionality from 'recorded' install session or manually > > generated setup) > > - - remote install dialog ui using ethernet as transport (yay!) would > > be a nice idea > > How about allowing for a pre-scripted installer which would let you > do unattended installations or upgrades of FreeBSD via a PXE netboot? > > I love the idea of wheeling a giant cabinet of new 1U boxes into my cage, > turning on the power, then standing back as they all busily boot up and > install themselves. Then every time they boot again that installer could > check to make sure the box was running the latest version, and do an > upgrade at boot time if needed. Fun! > > You could then roll your own "mail server", "database", and "web server" > installer scripts and have the pxe/tftp master server dynamically feed out > the images which your server farm is in short supply of. You could run > Yahoo with one IT guy whos main job would be weightlifting so that he'd be > strong enough to wheel Rackable Systems cabinets into Exodus by himself. > Okay, enough... :) Actually, this is what I did for Google, we were able to have 40 machines installed in about an hour: http://people.freebsd.org/~alfred/pxe/ -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] Ok, who wrote this damn function called '??'? And why do my programs keep crashing in it? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 12:32:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-73.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EC7537B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:32:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 15FAF66B6E; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:32:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:32:53 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Terry Lambert Cc: Giorgos Keramidas , Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010712123253.C6019@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <3B4B2D67.574C53D4@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="pAwQNkOnpTn9IO2O" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B4B2D67.574C53D4@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 09:29:27AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --pAwQNkOnpTn9IO2O Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 09:29:27AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > > > The base system is not registered into the packages > > > system, because of sysinstall. > >=20 > > It's not installed from /usr/ports but from /usr/src. > > I don't know if it's a good idea to have a huge > > freebsd_base-5.0-current-20010624 in the packages list, or a zillion > > freebsd_base-bin, freebsd_base-etc, etc. installed. >=20 > BTW: >=20 > I would settle for being able to select between base > system components that are default (e.g. "bind" and > "sendmail" and "perl", etc.), and those components > from ports (e.g. "djbdns", and "postfix" and "newer > than base version of perl") on an equivalency basis, > but I don't see how you would manage this without the > registration of base system components into the same > configuration management system as the replacements > you are permitted to select from for any given service > or role. As you know there are preparations being made to allow this through the modularisation of /etc/rc. See my other message about registration of sysinstall distributions -- it doesn't solve the problem of fine-grained separation of components, but the first step is to get it working on the current, coarse-grained scale. Kris --pAwQNkOnpTn9IO2O Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7TftkWry0BWjoQKURAoFVAKCjyoJnLgR05eV2e4YKUVojjPwEDQCfSnL/ MBz4kwek4JTB34QRbbGWTeg= =maJy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pAwQNkOnpTn9IO2O-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 12:37:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-73.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A52C037B405 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:37:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1465E66B6E; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:37:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:37:47 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Rajappa Iyer Cc: Jordan Hubbard , tlambert@primenet.com, wmoran@iowna.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010712123747.D6019@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <200107100342.UAA13676@usr01.primenet.com> <20010709213102G.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <200107100731.f6A7VxR05700@panix1.panix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="oj4kGyHlBMXGt3Le" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200107100731.f6A7VxR05700@panix1.panix.com>; from rsi@panix.com on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 03:31:59AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --oj4kGyHlBMXGt3Le Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 03:31:59AM -0400, Rajappa Iyer wrote: > Jordan Hubbard writes: >=20 > > Well, I'd sorta like to *see* them before writing the coding > > equivalent of a blank check, but given reasonably functional > > implementations, sure, I'd be happy to commit your "sysinstall > > mountpoint auto-discovery" and "release package metadata" > > enhancements. >=20 > One of the nice things I like about FreeBSD (and I daresay I'm not > alone in this) is that when I install it, I know that I'll get a > kernel with a corresponding full and functional userland. I see the > packaging of this `base system' as a bunch of (meta)packages as the > thin edge of the wedge---pretty soon FreeBSD will resemble the > hodge-podge collection of different (often conflicting) packages that > Linux is. I think all of us are aware of the shortcomings of Redhat Linnex in this regard and will be working hard to make sure we don't fall into the same traps, but still improve on what we currently have. Kris --oj4kGyHlBMXGt3Le Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7TfyKWry0BWjoQKURAl9lAKChvNZ9i/7BkxcoHuumMnJin/sE5QCeIw5G gQeXJ/OwiMvnQ3dmjPdAtPM= =aI6I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --oj4kGyHlBMXGt3Le-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 12:41:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-73.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA1F137B403 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:41:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 00B0666B6E; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:41:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:41:29 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Terry Lambert Cc: Rasputin , Jamie Bowden , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010712124128.E6019@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <200107100731.f6A7VxR05700@panix1.panix.com> <20010710125613.A51035@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <3B4B33DA.242EFDDC@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="3O1VwFp74L81IIeR" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B4B33DA.242EFDDC@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 09:56:58AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --3O1VwFp74L81IIeR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 09:56:58AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > Consider binary upgrades for things like security > alerts, which could happen automatically, based on > whatever criteria you specify (including "root exploit" > or "Never Do Anything Without My Permission"). In case you'd missed it, we've already started playing around with binary upgrade packages for security vulnerabilities. It's still early days, but I hope this will grow to become a useful facility. Kris --3O1VwFp74L81IIeR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7Tf1oWry0BWjoQKURAlAsAKCuj+i2RuZmg9hWO53cV9ZJY6HopwCgkjzL nNfx4l+IgEGAN7oILrrIr6M= =H36f -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --3O1VwFp74L81IIeR-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 13:34:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from logatome.francenet.fr (logatome-2.francenet.fr [193.149.96.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A15537B403 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:34:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from e-masson@kisoft-services.com) Received: from notbsdems.nantes.kisoft-services.com (pppA197.francenet.fr [193.149.100.107]) by logatome.francenet.fr (8.10.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6CKYQX60616; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:34:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: by notbsdems.nantes.kisoft-services.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9DE3FE6F05; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:33:56 +0200 (CEST) To: John Reynolds~ Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mgetty+AutoPPP pointers? References: <15181.56306.410897.853739@hip186.ch.intel.com> From: Eric Masson In-Reply-To: <15181.56306.410897.853739@hip186.ch.intel.com> (John Reynolds~'s message of "Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:18:42 -0700") X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE i386 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:33:53 +0200 Message-ID: <86lmlt3n0u.fsf@notbsdems.nantes.kisoft-services.com> Lines: 24 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090004 (Oort Gnus v0.04) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> "John" == John Reynolds writes: John> Hello all, Hello, this is no hacker material, this question should go to -questions or -stable. John> Does anybody have any bookmarked pointers to setting up John> mgetty+AutoPPP under FreeBSD -STABLE? Take a look at the handbook, especially topic 17.2 : http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/userppp.html#USERPPP-MGETTY John> If somebody has pointers or sample config files, I would be happy John> to try and mark them up and submit them to the -doc project! -doc already knows about the subject :) Eric Masson -- Je vais mettre Mouse Office pour voir combien de kilomètres je parcours entre 2 changements de scotch et nettoyage de boule. Même dans le domaine du petit bricolage, il faut savoir rester rigoureux. :-) -+- CH in Guide du Macounet Pervers : Bien bricoler sa souris -+- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 13:45:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from prime.gushi.org (prime.gushi.org [208.23.118.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33E7937B401; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:45:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danm@prime.gushi.org) Received: from localhost (danm@localhost) by prime.gushi.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6CKkgL49173; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:46:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:46:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Mahoney, System Admin" To: security@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: challenge, response, ssh, and a proposal Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey all... I have a quick question that I've scoured the net for and really can't find the answer to. It goes like this: When using a challenge/response based auth scheme, like s/key, opie, or a cryptocard, one first gets the challenge, then enters the response as their password. The issue with this is that some of the protocols and clients don't seem to have a great facility for backpassing of the challenge to the user. For example, with SecureCRT, which I've used, I cannot seem to find a place where it would hand you the challenge. When doing ssh with opie, does it "let you in" enough to prompt for the response onscreen (rather than a dialog box?), os is this simply not supported. On the same note, if one were to use OTP with ppp, is there a ppp stack out there that supports challenge/response, or must this be done via a terminal window? What about pop3? ftp? I mean, in THEORY, mail and ftp are less of a concern, as they can (SOMEWHAT) be limited to the running of arbitrary code as the user, but my situation is not one where one can set up ssh tunneling on five or six ports with non-standard clients. Enterprise networks have this option. I don't. My users should be free to use their choice of software. Their responsibilities are (at the moment) not to use weak passwords (I run crack regularly). I'm working on implementing cryptocards on my system, and have a rather simple proposal, that avoids the problems I've outlined. It goes a little something like this: You load a webpage (http or https) (or ssh or telnet in, it doesn't matter). At this point you're presented with your challenge, you compute the response (or enter your s/key response). After that, you are handed a session password. The session password effectively becomes your system password, for any access FROM THAT IP for (A) Any access until a specified timeout (inactivity timeout) or (b) a hard-timeout or (c) until the user closes the webpage or initial auth session. Naturally, the webpage (or console app) would have the option to kill off the session key as well. Of course, for any protocol that supports it (some ftpds can, su and telnet can, ssh, i'd love to know how it handles it from someone who's done it), you can still use your standard challenge/response system. Given, this MIGHT require users to use user@realm (user@plaintext, user@opie, user@skey, user@cryptocard, user@session) authentication or something like that, but this is all pam-able, or should be. Since cryptocards work via pam-radius it's easy enough to either add attributes to the radius server to handle this or to write a modified PAM, but in theory this should also be extensible to a pure-pam solution like opie and s/key. This solves the problem of "no support in the client", and should be fairly easy to implement via PAM. It's also scalable to other things, like ibuttons and securid cards, and even biometrics (which are just really neat to make your geek friends all mouth-watery.) I've BCCed my cryptocard sales rep on this email, but I'm interested in hearing any ideas anyone on this list has about (A) The possible problems and considerations (B) If there would be interest in such a project and (C) If there's been anything started related that I should know about. This SOUNDS like what Kerberos does, in a sense, but kerberos support isn't found much in clients either (the last client I used that supported it was NCSA telnet for the mac). I look forward to hearing from anyone. -Dan Mahoney -- Pika Pika Pika! -Pikachu, of Pokemon fame. --------Dan Mahoney-------- Techie, Sysadmin, WebGeek Gushi on efnet/undernet IRC ICQ: 13735144 AIM: LarpGM Web: http://prime.gushi.org finger danm@prime.gushi.org for pgp public key and tel# --------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 14:10:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB8B37B406 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:10:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-a081.otenet.gr [212.205.215.81]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6CLAXe28096; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 00:10:33 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f6CL4D602561; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 00:04:13 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from charon) To: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" Cc: tlambert2@mindspring.com, Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sysinstall - Was: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> <86ofqth6p3.fsf@hades.hell.gr> <20010711191530.F52923@mail.webmonster.de> From: Giorgos Keramidas Date: 13 Jul 2001 00:04:12 +0300 In-Reply-To: "Karsten W. Rohrbach"'s message of "Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:15:30 +0200" Message-ID: <86elrlc10z.fsf@hades.hell.gr> Lines: 24 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Karsten W. Rohrbach" writes: > Giorgos Keramidas(keramida@ceid.upatras.gr)@2001.07.10 05:13:44 +0000: > > Terry Lambert writes: > > > > > The base system is not registered into the packages > > > system, because of sysinstall. > > > > It's not installed from /usr/ports but from /usr/src. > > I don't know if it's a good idea to have a huge > > freebsd_base-5.0-current-20010624 in the packages list, or a zillion > > freebsd_base-bin, freebsd_base-etc, etc. installed. > > this would be too rpm-ish ;-) then you would also catch the dependency > problems with 'package foo needs bar2.0; baz4.3 provides bar1.5; need to > upgrade baz* to baz4.4; baz4.4 depends on bar2.2; bar2.0 cannot be > upgrade because of dependency loop; ...' That was meant as an irony. I like the base system the way it is, in one (admittedly big) but well defined piece. This RPM-ish behavior in contrast to the 'buildworld/installworld' of FreeBSD was what made me switch to BSD in the first place. -giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 14:54:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from herbelot.dyndns.org (d020.dhcp212-27.cybercable.fr [212.198.27.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E8A237B403 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:54:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thierry@herbelot.com) Received: from herbelot.com (multi.herbelot.nom [192.168.1.2]) by herbelot.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22790; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:56:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from thierry@herbelot.com) Message-ID: <3B4E1C69.A6DC0397@herbelot.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:53:45 +0200 From: Thierry Herbelot X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getting rid of sysinstall References: <20010712143205.D4589@sneakerz.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > [SNIP] > Actually, this is what I did for Google, we were able to have 40 machines > installed in about an hour: > > http://people.freebsd.org/~alfred/pxe/ > > -- > -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] > Ok, who wrote this damn function called '??'? > And why do my programs keep crashing in it? first : a big thank you for your paper : I finally could use PXE for diskless booting (not install, just running a full, diskless, FreeBSD) then : I thought Google used some version of Linux in its server farms .... TfH -- Thierry Herbelot To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 15:36:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sneakerz.org (sneakerz.org [216.33.66.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7297E37B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@sneakerz.org) Received: by sneakerz.org (Postfix, from userid 1092) id E5FC55D01F; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 17:36:01 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 17:36:01 -0500 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Thierry Herbelot Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getting rid of sysinstall Message-ID: <20010712173601.L4589@sneakerz.org> References: <20010712143205.D4589@sneakerz.org> <3B4E1C69.A6DC0397@herbelot.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <3B4E1C69.A6DC0397@herbelot.com>; from thierry@herbelot.com on Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 11:53:45PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Thierry Herbelot [010712 16:54] wrote: > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > [SNIP] > > Actually, this is what I did for Google, we were able to have 40 machines > > installed in about an hour: > > > > http://people.freebsd.org/~alfred/pxe/ > > > > -- > > -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] > > Ok, who wrote this damn function called '??'? > > And why do my programs keep crashing in it? > > first : a big thank you for your paper : I finally could use PXE for > diskless booting (not install, just running a full, diskless, FreeBSD) > > then : I thought Google used some version of Linux in its server farms No, they don't run FreeBSD. They were interested in having someone like me or the dozen of other FreeBSD kernel developers to turn to for help as well as the superior debugging features of FreeBSD, that's why I did the setup for them. However in the end they chose to stay with Linux, I don't think much actual evaluation was really done, basically one day someone needed that rack running linnex so they spammed over it. It was fun, but we missed. -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] Ok, who wrote this damn function called '??'? And why do my programs keep crashing in it? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 17:36:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D1E37B406 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 17:36:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f6D0a9X58107; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 17:36:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 17:36:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200107130036.f6D0a9X58107@earth.backplane.com> To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Nick Popoff , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getting rid of sysinstall References: <20010712143205.D4589@sneakerz.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Actually, this is what I did for Google, we were able to have 40 machines :installed in about an hour: : :http://people.freebsd.org/~alfred/pxe/ : :-- :-Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] I did something similar at BEST, though back then it was a NFS bootp boot floppy. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 18: 9:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (ussenterprise.ufp.org [208.185.30.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C49C37B405 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:09:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bicknell@ussenterprise.ufp.org) Received: (from bicknell@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f6D19iQ73553; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:09:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bicknell) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:09:44 -0400 From: Leo Bicknell To: Paul Robinson Cc: Julian Elischer , Leo Bicknell , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Network performance tuning. Message-ID: <20010712210944.A73446@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mail-Followup-To: Leo Bicknell , Paul Robinson , Julian Elischer , Leo Bicknell , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20010711195021.A89324@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <20010712175539.B93119@jake.akitanet.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010712175539.B93119@jake.akitanet.co.uk>; from paul@akita.co.uk on Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 05:55:39PM +0100 Organization: United Federation of Planets Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 05:55:39PM +0100, Paul Robinson wrote: > When I asked about SACK about 18 months ago (IIRC), the general consensus > was that it was a pile of crap, and that FBSD SHOULDN'T implement it if > possible. I however, agree that there are a lot of things in SACK that would > massively benefit FBSD's net performance. Does anyone know if Luigi's patches at http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/sack.html ever got wider use than his own testing? It looks like it was written some time ago, and if people have been running it since then there might be some real world data. If it helps, it could be a win for web servers, as it appers Win98 has SACK on by default. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org Systems Engineer - Internetworking Engineer - CCIE 3440 Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 18:28:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71F1037B406 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:28:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f6D1SFE59148; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:28:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:28:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200107130128.f6D1SFE59148@earth.backplane.com> To: Leo Bicknell Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Network performance tuning. References: <15.16ffaf54.287f3d4d@aol.com> <20010712135629.A49042@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think the crux of situation here is that the correct solution is to introduce more dynamicy in the way the kernel handles buffer space for tcp connections. For example, we want to be able to sysctl net.inet.tcp.sendspace and recvspace to high values (e.g. 65535, 1000000) without losing our ability to scale to many connections. This implies that the kernel must be able to dynamically reduce the 'effective' send and receive space limit to accomodate available mbuf space when the number of connections grows. This is fairly easy to do for the transmit side of things and would yield an immediate improvement in available mbuf space. For the receive side of things we can't really do anything with existing connections (because we've already advertised that the space is available to the remote end), but we can certainly reduce the buffer space we reserve for new connections. If the system is handling a large number of connections then this sort of scaling will work fairly well due to attrition. We can do all of this without ripping out the pre-allocation of buffer space. I.E. forget trying to do something fancy like swapping out buffers or virtualizing buffers or advertising more then we actually have etc etc etc. Think of it more in terms of the system internally sysctl'ing down the send and receive buffer space defaults in a dynamic fashion and doing other reclamation to speed it along. So in regards to Leo's suggestions. I think we can bump up our current defaults, and I would support increasing the 16384 default to 24576 or possibly even 32768 as well as increasing the number of mbufs. But that is only a stopgap measure. What we really need to do is what I just described. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 19: 8:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6A8B37B401; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:08:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id EA6816ACBC; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:38:22 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:38:22 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: y-carden@uniandes.edu.co Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Some questions about kernel programming Message-ID: <20010713113822.V45037@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from y-carden@uniandes.edu.co on Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 06:58:09AM -0500 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 12 July 2001 at 6:58:09 -0500, y-carden@uniandes.edu.co wrote: > Dear Friends > > I have some questions about kernel programming: You'd be better off sending mail like this to -hackers. I've followed up there. > 1. Why I can call some system calls functions into the kernel but > another not?, for example: I can call printf(), but I can't call > socket(). You can't call system calls from the kernel. printf() is a library call in userland; there's a different, but similar printf() in the kernel. > 2. Into kernel I can call the socket "low level" functions > that this system calls invoke sosocket(), soconnect(), etc. > but, How I do replace the send() system call? Perhaps, Can I call > write() into kernel with same parameters? > For example : > /* res = send(skt, buf, buflen, 0); */ > res = write (skt, buf, buflen); write() doesn't exist in the kernel. The simple answer is "you're going to have to read what the send() syscall does and emulate it". First, though, you need to answer the question "why do I want to do this in the kernel?" > 3. How I can copy a pointer string ( character array ) from user space to > kernel space using copyin() without the following problem (I can't > pass the length the explicitly from user land): > > struct MySystemCall_args { > char * address; > }; > > int MySystemCall( p,uap) > struct proc *p; > register struct MySystemCall_args *uap; > { > char *the_address; > > printf(" ---> uap->address : %s\n", uap->address ); > printf(" ---> (strlen (uap->address) * sizeof(char)) : %d \n", > (strlen (uap->address) * sizeof(char)) ); > copyin(uap->address, the_address, (strlen (uap->address) * sizeof(char)) > ); > printf("the_address: %s \n", the_address ); > printf("strlen (the_address): %d \n", strlen (the_address) ); > > When this code run in mode kernel: > ---> uap->address : 127.0.0.1 > ---> (strlen (uap->address) * sizeof(char)) : 9 > the_address : 127.0.0.1\M-"\M-Y\M-GX\M-p+\M-@@\M-_\M-*\M-@ > strlen (the_address): 20 > > This crash the kernel later... You've forgotten the terminating \0. Add one to the length. Greg -- When replying to this message, please copy the original recipients. If you don't, I may ignore the reply. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/questions.html See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 19:17:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from revolt.poohsticks.org (revolt.poohsticks.org [63.227.60.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C03137B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:17:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drew@revolt.poohsticks.org) Received: from revolt.poohsticks.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by revolt.poohsticks.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6D2HET67695; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:17:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drew@revolt.poohsticks.org) Message-Id: <200107130217.f6D2HET67695@revolt.poohsticks.org> To: Matt Dillon Cc: Leo Bicknell , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Network performance tuning. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:28:15 PDT." <200107130128.f6D1SFE59148@earth.backplane.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <67692.994990634.1@revolt.poohsticks.org> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:17:14 -0600 From: Drew Eckhardt Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200107130128.f6D1SFE59148@earth.backplane.com>, dillon@earth.backpl ane.com writes: > This is fairly easy to do for the transmit side of things and would > yield an immediate improvement in available mbuf space. For the receive > side of things we can't really do anything with existing connections > (because we've already advertised that the space is available to the > remote end), You can't change the RFC 1323 window scale. You can reduce the window size with each ACK, although this is frowned upon. To quote RFC 791, The mechanisms provided allow a TCP to advertise a large window and to subsequently advertise a much smaller window without having accepted that much data. This, so called "shrinking the window," is strongly discouraged. The robustness principle dictates that TCPs will not shrink the window themselves, but will be prepared for such behavior on the part of other TCPs. Given a choice between failing new connections because insufficient buffer space is available and a slow down (both from the decreased window size and packets dropped by the sender as it's adjusting), the later is probably preferable. Of course, avoiding this by reducing the buffer size of new connections before you run out is a better idea. -- Home Page For those who do, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 19:18:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sneakerz.org (sneakerz.org [216.33.66.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A33137B403 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:18:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@sneakerz.org) Received: by sneakerz.org (Postfix, from userid 1092) id EFCA35D01F; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:18:19 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:18:19 -0500 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Matt Dillon Cc: Leo Bicknell , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Network performance tuning. Message-ID: <20010712211819.D6664@sneakerz.org> References: <15.16ffaf54.287f3d4d@aol.com> <20010712135629.A49042@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <200107130128.f6D1SFE59148@earth.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <200107130128.f6D1SFE59148@earth.backplane.com>; from dillon@earth.backplane.com on Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 06:28:15PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Matt Dillon [010712 20:28] wrote: > > This is fairly easy to do for the transmit side of things and would > yield an immediate improvement in available mbuf space. For the receive > side of things we can't really do anything with existing connections > (because we've already advertised that the space is available to the > remote end), but we can certainly reduce the buffer space we reserve > for new connections. If the system is handling a large number of > connections then this sort of scaling will work fairly well due to > attrition. Actually, we can shrink the window, but that's strongly discouraged by a lot of papers/books. > So in regards to Leo's suggestions. I think we can bump up our current > defaults, and I would support increasing the 16384 default to 24576 or > possibly even 32768 as well as increasing the number of mbufs. But > that is only a stopgap measure. What we really need to do is what I > just described. It doesn't sound too bad to just double the current values, are you going to commit it? -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] Ok, who wrote this damn function called '??'? And why do my programs keep crashing in it? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 19:20:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from silby.com (cb34181-a.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.14.173.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2097F37B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:20:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from silby@silby.com) Received: (qmail 21905 invoked by uid 1000); 13 Jul 2001 02:20:47 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 02:20:47 -0000 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:20:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Silbersack To: Matt Dillon Cc: Leo Bicknell , Subject: Re: Network performance tuning. In-Reply-To: <200107130128.f6D1SFE59148@earth.backplane.com> Message-ID: <20010712211647.I21859-100000@achilles.silby.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: > This is fairly easy to do for the transmit side of things and would > yield an immediate improvement in available mbuf space. For the receive > side of things we can't really do anything with existing connections > (because we've already advertised that the space is available to the > remote end), but we can certainly reduce the buffer space we reserve > for new connections. If the system is handling a large number of > connections then this sort of scaling will work fairly well due to > attrition. > > We can do all of this without ripping out the pre-allocation of > buffer space. I.E. forget trying to do something fancy like > swapping out buffers or virtualizing buffers or advertising more > then we actually have etc etc etc. Think of it more in terms of > the system internally sysctl'ing down the send and receive buffer > space defaults in a dynamic fashion and doing other reclamation to > speed it along. Buffer space isn't really preallocated, so no work needs to be done there, as you state. The trick is auto-changing the size *correctly*. If we bump the default up to 64K, apache will fill each socket with 64K of data, no matter the speed of the box requesting the file. So, we have to start small by default and scale up as the connection goes on. The criteria to use when sclaing up is what would require the most work in making the buffer space used dynamic. Mike "Silby" Silbersack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 19:27:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from silby.com (cb34181-a.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.14.173.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEFC837B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:27:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from silby@silby.com) Received: (qmail 21927 invoked by uid 1000); 13 Jul 2001 02:27:54 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 02:27:54 -0000 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:27:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Silbersack To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Matt Dillon , Leo Bicknell , Subject: Re: Network performance tuning. In-Reply-To: <20010712211819.D6664@sneakerz.org> Message-ID: <20010712212051.K21859-100000@achilles.silby.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Matt Dillon [010712 20:28] wrote: > > Actually, we can shrink the window, but that's strongly discouraged > by a lot of papers/books. I doubt you really need to shrink the window ever - the fact that you've hit the mbuf limit basically enforces that limit. And, if we're only upping the limit based on actual ACKing of data, there's no (major) DoS issue. However, it would be nice to have the ability to shrink the window, specifically in the case where there *is* a DoS going on. :) > > So in regards to Leo's suggestions. I think we can bump up our current > > defaults, and I would support increasing the 16384 default to 24576 or > > possibly even 32768 as well as increasing the number of mbufs. But > > that is only a stopgap measure. What we really need to do is what I > > just described. > > It doesn't sound too bad to just double the current values, are you going > to commit it? I'd like to do this also, provided that we also change the mbuf to cluster ratio from 4/1 to 2/1. This will ensure that the doubled per-socket memory usage doesn't cause systems to run out of clusters earlier than before. Mike "Silby" Silbersack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 19:28:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sneakerz.org (sneakerz.org [216.33.66.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01B1337B405; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:28:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@sneakerz.org) Received: by sneakerz.org (Postfix, from userid 1092) id 92FFF5D01F; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:28:09 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:28:09 -0500 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Greg Lehey Cc: y-carden@uniandes.edu.co, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Some questions about kernel programming Message-ID: <20010712212809.F6664@sneakerz.org> References: <20010713113822.V45037@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20010713113822.V45037@wantadilla.lemis.com>; from grog@FreeBSD.org on Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 11:38:22AM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Greg Lehey [010712 21:08] wrote: > On Thursday, 12 July 2001 at 6:58:09 -0500, y-carden@uniandes.edu.co wrote: > > Dear Friends > > > > I have some questions about kernel programming: > > You'd be better off sending mail like this to -hackers. I've followed > up there. I also got this in private mail, hrmm.. > write() doesn't exist in the kernel. The simple answer is "you're > going to have to read what the send() syscall does and emulate it". > First, though, you need to answer the question "why do I want to do > this in the kernel?" it actually exists, however the problem is that copyin and friends assume a seperate address space, I wonder if one could do some trick to alias the seperate address space on top of the kernel, that should allow copyin and friends to work on pointers into the kernel's address space. > > 3. How I can copy a pointer string ( character array ) from user space to > > kernel space using copyin() without the following problem (I can't > > pass the length the explicitly from user land): > > > > struct MySystemCall_args { > > char * address; > > }; > > > > int MySystemCall( p,uap) > > struct proc *p; > > register struct MySystemCall_args *uap; > > { > > char *the_address; > > > > printf(" ---> uap->address : %s\n", uap->address ); > > printf(" ---> (strlen (uap->address) * sizeof(char)) : %d \n", > > (strlen (uap->address) * sizeof(char)) ); > > copyin(uap->address, the_address, (strlen (uap->address) * sizeof(char)) > > ); > > printf("the_address: %s \n", the_address ); > > printf("strlen (the_address): %d \n", strlen (the_address) ); > > > > When this code run in mode kernel: > > ---> uap->address : 127.0.0.1 > > ---> (strlen (uap->address) * sizeof(char)) : 9 > > the_address : 127.0.0.1\M-"\M-Y\M-GX\M-p+\M-@@\M-_\M-*\M-@ > > strlen (the_address): 20 > > > > This crash the kernel later... > > You've forgotten the terminating \0. Add one to the length. You can't call kernel strlen on a userland address, you must do something like this: /* * return number of characters in a userland address string * or -1 if an illegal access occurs. */ int user_strlen(uaddr) char *uaddr; { int ret; ret = -1; do { ch = fubyte(uaddr); ret++; } while (ch != 0 && ch != -1); return (ch == -1 ? -1 : ret); } -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] Ok, who wrote this damn function called '??'? And why do my programs keep crashing in it? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 19:30:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (ussenterprise.ufp.org [208.185.30.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 574EE37B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:30:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bicknell@ussenterprise.ufp.org) Received: (from bicknell@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f6D2Ugw77690; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:30:42 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bicknell) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:30:42 -0400 From: Leo Bicknell To: Drew Eckhardt Cc: Matt Dillon , Leo Bicknell , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Network performance tuning. Message-ID: <20010712223042.A77503@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mail-Followup-To: Leo Bicknell , Drew Eckhardt , Matt Dillon , Leo Bicknell , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200107130128.f6D1SFE59148@earth.backplane.com> <200107130217.f6D2HET67695@revolt.poohsticks.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200107130217.f6D2HET67695@revolt.poohsticks.org>; from drew@PoohSticks.ORG on Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 08:17:14PM -0600 Organization: United Federation of Planets Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 08:17:14PM -0600, Drew Eckhardt wrote: > You can reduce the window size with each ACK, although this is frowned > upon. There's "frowned upon" and "frowned upon". :-) For instance, if the only reason it's discouraged is because it causes connections to start running slower, then I would consider that something worth rethinking. If there are cases where it actively causes issues for the far end stack, then it probably should be avoided. That RFC is old enough that it's worth double checking that the recommendations still make sence today. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org Systems Engineer - Internetworking Engineer - CCIE 3440 Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 19:36:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (ussenterprise.ufp.org [208.185.30.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28D8A37B403 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:36:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bicknell@ussenterprise.ufp.org) Received: (from bicknell@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f6D2aah78066; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:36:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bicknell) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:36:36 -0400 From: Leo Bicknell To: Mike Silbersack Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Matt Dillon , Leo Bicknell , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Network performance tuning. Message-ID: <20010712223636.B77503@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mail-Followup-To: Leo Bicknell , Mike Silbersack , Alfred Perlstein , Matt Dillon , Leo Bicknell , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010712211819.D6664@sneakerz.org> <20010712212051.K21859-100000@achilles.silby.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010712212051.K21859-100000@achilles.silby.com>; from silby@silby.com on Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 09:27:54PM -0500 Organization: United Federation of Planets Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 09:27:54PM -0500, Mike Silbersack wrote: > I'd like to do this also, provided that we also change the mbuf to cluster > ratio from 4/1 to 2/1. This will ensure that the doubled per-socket > memory usage doesn't cause systems to run out of clusters earlier than > before. This is sort of backwards. Today we have (kern/uipc_mbuf.c): #ifndef NMBCLUSTERS #define NMBCLUSTERS (512 + MAXUSERS * 16) #endif TUNABLE_INT_DECL("kern.ipc.nmbclusters", NMBCLUSTERS, nmbclusters); TUNABLE_INT_DECL("kern.ipc.nmbufs", NMBCLUSTERS * 4, nmbufs); What you actually want to do is double the number of clusters: #define NMBCLUSTERS (512 + MAXUSERS * 32) And then do half as many mbuf's per cluster: TUNABLE_INT_DECL("kern.ipc.nmbufs", NMBCLUSTERS * 2, nmbufs); I think. Here's a sample from a system I run (netstat -m): 151/5024/18432 mbufs in use (current/peak/max): 128/4608/4608 mbuf clusters in use (current/peak/max) As you can see, clusters peaked, while mbuf's were only 1/3 used. I want to see some data points from other types of servers before saying this really is a good idea. That said, so far every system I've checked runs out of clusters before mbuf's. Can some other people check systems in various forms of use? -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org Systems Engineer - Internetworking Engineer - CCIE 3440 Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 12 19:42:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7298737B408 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:42:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.2]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA39057 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:42:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200107130242.WAA39057@cs.rpi.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: sound on IBM model T22 laptop Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:42:06 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, sound is not working correctly on this IBM model T22 laptop. Specifically whenever sound plays it is very garbled. I can get it to play almost correctly via either 'ping -f somehost' or 'dd bs=512 if=/dev/zero of=foo.zero' (well, at least until the filesystem fills up ;) the ethernet card is on IRQ 11 (same as the sound chip), but the IDE controller is on the standard IDE IRQ channel... so I am not quite sure if this is an IRQ issue. This is a -STABLE kernel from today. ----- machine i386 cpu I686_CPU ident TTT maxusers 64 options INET #InterNETworking options INET6 #IPv6 communications protocols options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options FFS_ROOT #FFS usable as root device [keep this!] options SOFTUPDATES #Enable FFS soft updates support options MFS #Memory Filesystem options MD_ROOT #MD is a potential root device options NFS #Network Filesystem options NFS_ROOT #NFS usable as root device, NFS required options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem options CD9660 #ISO 9660 Filesystem options CD9660_ROOT #CD-ROM usable as root, CD9660 required options PROCFS #Process filesystem options COMPAT_43 #Compatible with BSD 4.3 [KEEP THIS!] options SCSI_DELAY=15000 #Delay (in ms) before probing SCSI options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options USERCONFIG #boot -c editor options VISUAL_USERCONFIG #visual boot -c editor options KTRACE #ktrace(1) support options SYSVSHM #SYSV-style shared memory options SYSVMSG #SYSV-style message queues options SYSVSEM #SYSV-style semaphores options P1003_1B #Posix P1003_1B real-time extensions options _KPOSIX_PRIORITY_SCHEDULING options ICMP_BANDLIM #Rate limit bad replies options KBD_INSTALL_CDEV # install a CDEV entry in /dev device isa device pci # Floppy drives device fdc0 at isa? port IO_FD1 irq 6 drq 2 device fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 device fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 # ATA and ATAPI devices device ata0 at isa? port IO_WD1 irq 14 device ata1 at isa? port IO_WD2 irq 15 device ata device atadisk # ATA disk drives device atapicd # ATAPI CDROM drives options ATA_STATIC_ID #Static device numbering # SCSI peripherals device scbus # SCSI bus (required) device da # Direct Access (disks) device sa # Sequential Access (tape etc) device cd # CD device pass # Passthrough device (direct SCSI access) # atkbdc0 controls both the keyboard and the PS/2 mouse device atkbdc0 at isa? port IO_KBD device atkbd0 at atkbdc? irq 1 flags 0x1 device psm0 at atkbdc? irq 12 device vga0 at isa? # splash screen/screen saver pseudo-device splash # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc0 at isa? flags 0x100 # Floating point support - do not disable. device npx0 at nexus? port IO_NPX irq 13 # Power management support (see LINT for more options) device apm0 at nexus? flags 0x20 # Advanced Power Management # PCCARD (PCMCIA) support device card device pcic0 at isa? irq 0 port 0x3e0 iomem 0xd0000 device pcic1 at isa? irq 0 port 0x3e2 iomem 0xd4000 disable # Serial (COM) ports device sio0 at isa? port IO_COM1 flags 0x10 irq 4 device sio1 at isa? port IO_COM2 irq 3 device sio2 at isa? disable port IO_COM3 irq 5 device sio3 at isa? disable port IO_COM4 irq 9 # Parallel port device ppc0 at isa? irq 7 device ppbus # Parallel port bus (required) device lpt # Printer device plip # TCP/IP over parallel device ppi # Parallel port interface device #device vpo # Requires scbus and da device miibus # MII bus support device fxp # Intel EtherExpress PRO/100B (82557, 82558) # Pseudo devices - the number indicates how many units to allocate. pseudo-device loop # Network loopback pseudo-device ether # Ethernet support pseudo-device tun # Packet tunnel. pseudo-device pty # Pseudo-ttys (telnet etc) pseudo-device md # Memory "disks" pseudo-device gif 4 # IPv6 and IPv4 tunneling pseudo-device faith 1 # IPv6-to-IPv4 relaying (translation) # The `bpf' pseudo-device enables the Berkeley Packet Filter. # Be aware of the administrative consequences of enabling this! pseudo-device bpf #Berkeley packet filter # USB support device uhci # UHCI PCI->USB interface device ohci # OHCI PCI->USB interface device usb # USB Bus (required) device ugen # Generic device uhid # "Human Interface Devices" device ukbd # Keyboard device ulpt # Printer device umass # Disks/Mass storage - Requires scbus and da device ums # Mouse device uscanner # Scanners device pcm ---- Copyright (c) 1992-2001 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE #0: Thu Jul 12 16:49:15 EDT 2001 root@d113-37.cs.rpi.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/TTT Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz CPU: Pentium III/Pentium III Xeon/Celeron (896.11-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x68a Stepping = 10 Features=0x383f9ff real memory = 268435456 (262144K bytes) avail memory = 257523712 (251488K bytes) Preloaded elf kernel "kernel" at 0xc03a8000. Pentium Pro MTRR support enabled md0: Malloc disk apm0: on motherboard apm: found APM BIOS v1.2, connected at v1.2 npx0: on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface pcib0: on motherboard pci0: on pcib0 pcib1: at device 1.0 on pci0 pci1: on pcib1 pci1: at 0.0 irq 11 pcic-pci0: mem 0x50000000-0x50000fff irq 11 at device 2.0 on pci0 pcic-pci0: TI12XX PCI Config Reg: [ring enable][speaker enable][pwr save][FUNC pci int + CSC serial isa irq] pcic-pci1: mem 0x50100000-0x50100fff irq 11 at device 2.1 on pci0 pcic-pci1: TI12XX PCI Config Reg: [ring enable][speaker enable][pwr save][FUNC pci int + CSC serial isa irq] fxp0: port 0x1800-0x183f mem 0xe8100000-0xe811ffff,0xe8120000-0xe8120fff irq 11 at device 3.0 on pci0 fxp0: Ethernet address 00:03:47:7b:a7:65 inphy0: on miibus0 inphy0: 10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, auto pci0: (vendor=0x11c1, dev=0x045c) at 3.1 irq 11 csa0: mem 0xe8000000-0xe80fffff,0xe8122000-0xe8122fff irq 11 at device 5.0 on pci0 pcm0: on csa0 isab0: at device 7.0 on pci0 isa0: on isab0 atapci0: port 0x1850-0x185f at device 7.1 on pci0 ata0: at 0x1f0 irq 14 on atapci0 ata1: at 0x170 irq 15 on atapci0 uhci0: port 0x1860-0x187f irq 11 at device 7.2 on pci0 usb0: on uhci0 usb0: USB revision 1.0 uhub0: Intel UHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub0: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered chip1: port 0x1040-0x104f at device 7.3 on pci0 orm0: