From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat May 25 05:22:31 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FAAC159F3D3; Sat, 25 May 2019 05:22:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from www.lemis.com (www.lemis.com [208.86.226.86]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B51A08FBAA; Sat, 25 May 2019 05:22:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from eureka.lemis.com (lemis.com [192.109.197.81]) by www.lemis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CA731B72839; Sat, 25 May 2019 05:22:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eureka.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id C4BB8264D3F; Sat, 25 May 2019 15:22:27 +1000 (AEST) Date: Sat, 25 May 2019 15:22:27 +1000 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org, Alexandru Goia Subject: Re: newbie question Message-ID: <20190525052227.GC46943@eureka.lemis.com> References: <20190523024951.GA91834@eureka.lemis.com> <201905230505.x4N55YRl088440@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="mvpLiMfbWzRoNl4x" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201905230505.x4N55YRl088440@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-3-5309-0418 Mobile: +61-490-494-038. Use only as instructed. WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.1 (2016-04-27) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: B51A08FBAA X-Spamd-Bar: -------- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of grog@lemis.com designates 208.86.226.86 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=grog@lemis.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-8.70 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:www.lemis.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx1.lemis.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.967,0]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[grog@FreeBSD.org,grog@lemis.com]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36236, ipnet:208.86.226.0/24, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[grog@FreeBSD.org,grog@lemis.com]; IP_SCORE(-3.72)[ip: (-9.77), ipnet: 208.86.226.0/24(-4.89), asn: 36236(-3.88), country: US(-0.06)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 May 2019 05:22:31 -0000 --mvpLiMfbWzRoNl4x Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 22:05:34 -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >> On Tuesday, 21 May 2019 at 21:10:38 -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >>>> On Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 1:36:24 +0300, Alexandru Goia wrote: >>>>> greetings. how can do i get attuned in a logical manner with the >>>>> *bsd/freebsd kernel source code ? thank you very much ! >>>> >>>> Clearly you know how to get it (otherwise >>>> https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ is your >>>> friend). To understand it better, I'd suggest reading "The Design and >>>> Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating System" by Kirk McKusick and >>>> George Neville-Neil (Addison-Wesley). >>>> >>>> Understanding the code requires some work. People will happily answer >>>> detail questions, but you'll be responsible for finding out the >>>> overall structure yourself. >>> >>> During a somewhat recent session of working with a not new, >>> but also not seasoned developer, they noted a great deal of >>> confusion when I was reading through and explaining code >>> to them when I would actually read "pcb" on screen as >>> "Process Control Block" when verbalizing it. They could not >>> see what I had just read to them. >> >> Heh. I ran into something like this decades ago, using an "operating >> system" that will be nameless. >> >> The program to copy files was... IEBCPY. Most people pronounced it >> "Eye Ee Bee Copy". And some had their card decks returned after hours >> of queueing to discover that some completion code (13?) saying "NOT >> FOUND: IEBCOPY". > > I think your copy of OS/360 is borked, or is this one of the names > they mangled in MVS? I have a vague memory of JCL that had those > types of issues. Yes, this was MVS. I'm pretty sure that they didn't deliberately make things worse than they were. >> Clearly, we decided, pronouncing names for what they mean is *bad*. >> From then on I spelt names out, or at least tried to pronounce them >> the way they're spelt ("Eye Ee Bee Cpy"). It confuse[ds] people, but >> it avoided some misunderstandings. > > Pronouncing spellings is bad, yes, but that is not what I was > doing. I was pronouncing the proper full names, usually as > defined either in "The design and implementation book" or in > the code comments themselves. Yes, but the approach is similar. -- When replying to this message, please copy the original recipients. If you don't, I may ignore the reply or reply to the original recipients. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Sent from my desktop computer. Finger grog@FreeBSD.org for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. 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