Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 23:49:06 -0700 From: Paul Traina <pst@shockwave.com> To: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Cc: cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG, cvs-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/x11/tk41 Makefile ports/x11/tk41/files Makefile.lib md5 ports/x11/tk41/patches patch-ab patch-ac patch Message-ID: <199707070649.XAA12547@precipice.shockwave.com> In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 07 Jul 1997 15:57:05 %2B0930." <199707070627.PAA29365@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/x11/tk41 Makefile ports/x11/tk41/files Makefil
>>e.lib md5 ports/x11/tk41/patches patch-ab patch-ac patch
Paul Traina stands accused of saying:
>
> Is there intelligence in this somewhere that will detect that the system
> is one with tcl7.5 as part of the base and not insist on the tcl7.5
> port being installed?
>
> Nope, but that's a good idea for someone to implement.
I'd say it was a mandatory prerequisite before pulling this sort of stunt.
> I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to achieve here; could you
> perhaps expand on your motives?
>
> Restoring tcl to port status, so that it may be upgraded or downgraded
> more flexibly. The tcl in FreeBSD is ancient.
I think that you're showing very poor judgement here; this isn't a
move that should be undertaken precipitately, or by someone with your
recorded antipathy to Tcl in general.
Myth control:
(a) I'm the person who brought tcl 7.4 and 7.5 in as ports
in the first place and had been faithfully maintaining it.
If I hated tcl, I certainly wouldn't have put so much time
into making it useful under freebsd. (chuckle)
(b) Jordan, Poul-Henning, and myself have discussed this for
over a month and came to the consensus that tcl as part of
the core OS was a mistake that needed repair.
(c) Nothing has been done, so far, other than making the tcl75
and tk41 ports current and servicable.
(d) My intentions have been made quite clear to the entire core
team, and I will not remove tcl from the source distribution
until >rough< consensus has been reached.
Unless you're doing this a precursor to your tested and ready reformation
of the basic FreeBSD distribution structure which addresses all of the
basic issues that have been recognised recently, I really think that
you should back up a few steps.
No, I'm not here to save the whole world. I neither have the time
nor the patience to come up with a "final solution" for all
contributed software. The model of how to do software distribution
for OS's properly is already out there. It's called Debian.
Tcl7.5 may well be ancient; so is Perl 4. Both are currently serving
duty as placeholders until 8.0 and 5.x respectively are ready for
integration; this is a well-known and established fact.
Please explain in detail why FreeBSD users must be hamstrung with the
software selection present in the src distribution.
I have to assume that I've missed some discussion somewhere else and
that you're not trying to pull a fast one here; could you perhaps
suggest where this has been talked over so I can review the
argument to date?
Yup. It wasn't archived on a mailing list. Rather, the people involved
with doing the deed in the first place were consulted and consensus was
achieved.
(Actually, that's a tiny lie -- PHK is demanding that I move perl4 out
to ports too, but I refused to do it until we nuke the perl system
utilities.)
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