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Date:      Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:28:15 -0600
From:      Warner Losh <imp@village.org>
To:        "Andrey A. Chernov" <ache@nagual.pp.ru>
Cc:        "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com>, Marcel Moolenaar <marcel@cup.hp.com>, Will Andrews <andrews@technologist.com>, Marcel Moolenaar <marcel@FreeBSD.org>, cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org
Subject:   Re: cvs commit: src/etc Makefile src/include Makefile src/release Makefile src/release/picobsd/build Makefile.mfs src/release/picobsd/custom Makefile.mfs src/release/picobsd/dial Makefile.mfs src/release/picobsd/install Makefile.mfs 
Message-ID:  <200007250228.UAA85362@harmony.village.org>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 25 Jul 2000 05:51:25 %2B0400." <20000725055124.A35927@nagual.pp.ru> 
References:  <20000725055124.A35927@nagual.pp.ru>  <20000724085030.A28936@nagual.pp.ru> <25873.964459115@localhost> 

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In message <20000725055124.A35927@nagual.pp.ru> "Andrey A. Chernov" writes:
: This week moaning was basically related to strtofflags() and not to my
: changes. Which part is related to my changes I know only after I start
: discussion after backing out, before this moment no one inform me after I
: fix 'make world' for -current.

I agree.  It took about a week of brokenness before we understood the
problem.  There was strong evidence that it was mtree, but not for the
reasons that people think.  Andrey's changes were only incidental to
the whole fiasco.  If one looks at the string of events, one could
also conclude that joe@ was responsible for the problems because his
fixes of June 17, 2000 also caused the bootstrap problem.  The other
problems, fixing mtree to not follow symbolic links (which was the
right thing to do) hit on July 16, 2000.  If the changes were in
reverse order, then we'd not have the -L problem, but rather we'd be
talking about the strtofflags problem.

: > Andrey basically did a hit-and-run on the tree and then declined to
: > participate seriously in the discussion and suggested fixes which
: > followed, a decision which makes any subsequent accusation of
: 
: Where is example of my decline?  BTW, I already express just totally
: opposite opinion, but at this moment I want to add some general thoughts.
: Basically the longer someone stays in the project, the more conflicts
: should arised, it is just pure time-dependend function, if he does some
: work. This is normal if conflicts are resolved in the spirit of
: cooperation. You, as head of the project, are supposed to understand this
: far better.

Yes.  I'd like to see this as well.  One thing that I did wrong was
not CC andrey (and joe) on the changes that I made.  I should have had
them huddle and come up with something.

Finally, the -L changes were correct.  The reason that we need them
for the buildworld, but not for other uses is fairly simple.  The
buildworld process requires mtree to set permissions.

But come to think of it, I'm not at all sure why we need to have mtree
follow symbolic links in the build process.  I thought I understood
that, but now cannot find the words to explain it and am in doubt of
my understanding of it.

I don't think there's the need to dog pile on Andrey over this.  Sure,
his changes caused a world breakage.  It was a rather difficult world
breakage to figure out, but it was no worse than, say, my breaking the
alpha world build with some pccard changes or any of a dozen other
world breakages that happen, people fix and we move on with life.
Screaming at him for a problem that wasn't well understood for a while
is counter productive.

Warner


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