From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG  Wed Mar 10 15:07:38 2004
Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG>
Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0D8016A4CE
	for <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>;
	Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:07:38 -0800 (PST)
Received: from postal1.es.net (postal1.es.net [198.128.3.205])
	by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A426543D31
	for <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>;
	Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:07:38 -0800 (PST)	(envelope-from oberman@es.net)
Received: from ptavv.es.net ([198.128.4.29])
        by postal1.es.net (Postal Node 1) with ESMTP (SSL) id IBA74465;
        Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:07:38 -0800
Received: from ptavv (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by ptavv.es.net (Tachyon Server) with ESMTP
	id 01EE15D04; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:07:37 -0800 (PST)
To: Gregory Bond <gnb@itga.com.au>
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:03:59 +1100."
             <200403102303.KAA12747@lightning.itga.com.au> 
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:07:37 -0800
From: "Kevin Oberman" <oberman@es.net>
Message-Id: <20040310230738.01EE15D04@ptavv.es.net>
cc: Manfred Lotz <manfred.lotz@web.de>
cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: unexpected softupdate inconsistency 
X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code
	<freebsd-stable.freebsd.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable>,
	<mailto:freebsd-stable-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable>
List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-stable-request@freebsd.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable>,
	<mailto:freebsd-stable-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:07:39 -0000

> From: Gregory Bond <gnb@itga.com.au>
> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:03:59 +1100
> Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
> 
> 
> msergeant@snsonline.net said:
> > In situations like this it can be useful to use vim on the dir entry
> > that is affected and remove the invalid filenames. This has worked for
> > me before.
> 
> I'm astounded.  
> 
> Directories are not supposed to be modifiable by user-space processes at all,
> only with link/unlink/creat/etc system calls, because the risk of filesystem
> corruption is huge.  What does vim do here that rm doesn't? And how does it get
> around the "cant write(2) directories" ban?
> 
> See man open:
> 
>      [EISDIR]           The named file is a directory, and the arguments spec-
>                         ify it is to be opened for writing.

emacs and XEmacs dired has been able to manipulate directories for as
ling as I've been around. I assume that they DO use the standard system
calls. (This includes vim, which I don't use.)
-- 
R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer
Energy Sciences Network (ESnet)
Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab)
E-mail: oberman@es.net			Phone: +1 510 486-8634