From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mon Jun 4 19:07:31 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70D36FE2FC0 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2018 19:07:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mat.macy@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it0-x244.google.com (mail-it0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F219580799; Mon, 4 Jun 2018 19:07:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mat.macy@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it0-x244.google.com with SMTP id n7-v6so301934itn.1; Mon, 04 Jun 2018 12:07:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=d1nuViUFuk62bR8tNvIRmEEXuax/P5cVOlYfc4UKqCY=; b=i6XvRQda8MkSViiyDzq1ltaaDf6FZ1O/uBMwnsjG33tL+HAkJV3Vu56qyEDHkd8ogN H3dbGG4hRyVJhq3Dww8lZTW6WpWhrcqEaSmpwPGdePE7cqqao9RI9+Fg9spKKM7xvx+/ GCWVmRypbddwQzCbmWU5MW+bsC5IwJrgpOVVsB6rTADEcIy8poHfJdYhK0CZ2Ur5+j7j qpboXS7htjpm8kz3YX8oI3r/VXhpRsso09Deg9I+nqL2wZ6fXRqy43Svgiuc7xL3Otwk CeFfF1gsJPDGCNscsrVD3T1BBnVjwn6JSEmvvpldACMoDhDQWxXWFs6wrQQULZ1OtLTs MhVw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=d1nuViUFuk62bR8tNvIRmEEXuax/P5cVOlYfc4UKqCY=; b=T+/QvgdD3+0kSNxj4uZv3+ipaQ04bALllOrAF1Pk5S1qZGjHbnNq/LEu7JllvX44hh brzn0FT8O8oK6LptEU4UqSIzFwsnAUstxXURXjioHuyHcHmo/droCmRUvH4qWEeSq7yY B0tHFIndiRgtbClIRsSgn4Ye6vsoBnjG2CJl07tF1Uv3H4O6eSMZywbYL/mKBa3//lQe UwCl13au/p3a1gtw9vWDvnWhkmYdac2OxLniwgaMuI2rxo+DiOpXPAVPiDqq3CSBYvvK riBMDJhfts/V3PlgRUp4g/+Xqqo5Qph9yPlMATxjZjQcuJ/f+EqsG/eErb45C61M45fA 3cCA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0kFi4YC1JCZUYIov7sWbYy92qB6QQeRrHIhtqoEgRPnCWGOjAo yQnm6g5P17RcnIb+TTDVOQNsImxTx3IDeZp9IJs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKJN3Ul/ZRvJ/+9fb9SP0WM8I+4l82/kN+9jTYaPllNt7/4fpffC9FIR7UBOn13SrQ+p9WhsR+bOaOUiKJocwQM= X-Received: by 2002:a24:459f:: with SMTP id c31-v6mr8803246itd.132.1528139245589; Mon, 04 Jun 2018 12:07:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a02:8cd:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Jun 2018 12:07:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20180524160234.GD68014@FreeBSD.org> <201805241610.w4OGAAGY041280@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <20180530235156.310870d0@thor.intern.walstatt.dynvpn.de> <20180531101643.GV3789@kib.kiev.ua> From: Matthew Macy Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2018 12:07:25 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [RFC] Deprecation and removal of the drm2 driver To: Adrian Chadd Cc: jmaloney@ixsystems.com, Daniel Eischen , Kostik Belousov , Johannes Lundberg , freebsd-current Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 04 Jun 2018 19:37:33 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2018 19:07:31 -0000 On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 12:03 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > Hi, > > As a driver/framework developer - no, don't do that. > > It's worked mostly great for the video side of things because your > touch points are "the VM system" and "linuxkpi". And they're all in > one big driver pull from Linux. > > For wifi as an example - it has a bunch of userland components, a > kernel framework component (net80211); it gets API churn from people > who keep making networking API changes without making them opaque (i > just got bitten by the STAILQ -> CK_STAILQ changes for multicast > iteration, instead of us growing a multicast iterator function thing.) We've had one for several years. You're just not using it. > Having it be multiple drivers/firmware means that anyone doing wifi > development here would have to install /all/ of the relevant packages > and the net80211 stuff and userland just to get any work done and hope > it stays in sync. This is the same old saw of people who can't be bothered to use ports. It is more of a headache with ABI drift but it's certainly not a fundamental impediment. -M