From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 16 13:29:15 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DD2B3392BE for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 13:29:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-qt1-x82f.google.com (mail-qt1-x82f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49mTZ16JBYz40XD for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 13:29:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: by mail-qt1-x82f.google.com with SMTP id g18so15388318qtu.13 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 06:29:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:mime-version; bh=/zQKf0qiooJARBi7W7PffjFwNvdnpl5XtRrREOT3NvU=; b=WdHZZTpReVwJU6WVmsFYcshdEk5PH2p3KVYVCPJNkH6IE+kshqaqw43TTwEzfGA2l3 D9mUIzxMKekm2bWScOxDfhoglFP85ySe+Q19FeMt4nk26m2ooICYf3vcugoqEZ9BlJZ/ s4o8E3Fu/eGeR28Zrh713tnWWJlpToRFMbFMA= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:reply-to:organization:mime-version; bh=/zQKf0qiooJARBi7W7PffjFwNvdnpl5XtRrREOT3NvU=; b=Z4pU/U/JYLN4D13Pp7oqpVHlNcao8KvzYG86ACY2539lhz2M+JGMLMRchnEx/ugMoR a6Hs0Da58Ud6w2pCH5+53pDPqdT1Pbjt9nxKT/SEhxyylmG5gkfcjzfWyP2SOpAPrwDx jgysa29+spYrG3lOpLO92JCZVnDrXBNdvQtTOOrUnZxwyY4ajZbUt5JaluFvLsaEy3eA 6gJvhA9gx5SidD89kqu1BH6zhQ0ZjABk1SLGeW3Drt3Zp5abW3SgyX6hp1SZFYw5ll4O 1WjrdinKZ/JviFyDcoHMebVjZj+w9zVsgNyJvbkkaIeo7WKRMOvv/q6aLq9PfjoVi/rm aNjA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531h9yLnsUE8YMydXjckcWjTEs63ET8eEPSVgKAGYw73NiQAVS8y pZKreYQ/4VKKAkTUZHq9ODQPDyF8ifE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx8EY26jgVz6aO6eMEmizZA4UaqPCinLWC7L6jtacS0CGvxXEOSvLKb1Zu9g7xni2xetOY00w== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:4243:: with SMTP id r3mr21890247qtm.225.1592314152266; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 06:29:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-174-109-231-236.nc.res.rr.com. [174.109.231.236]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x43sm15498526qtk.70.2020.06.16.06.29.10 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 16 Jun 2020 06:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hp-envy.seibercom.net [192.168.1.102]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49mTYw5vl1z4S6L for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 09:29:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 09:29:01 -0400 From: Jerry To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mailing List Etiquette was freebsd vs. netbsd Message-ID: <20200616092901.000002f7@seibercom.net> In-Reply-To: References: <20200613154409.GA89618@neutralgood.org> <13115.1592302784@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <20200616071153.00006f4d@seibercom.net> <20200616075548.000066f1@seibercom.net> <20200616140416.bd7b8bf2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200616142043.7d599458.freebsd@edvax.de> Reply-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.4 (GTK+ 2.24.32; i686-w64-mingw32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="Sig_/.c/XivGW/7e1EeY=EFa6afr"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49mTZ16JBYz40XD X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=seibercom.net header.s=google header.b=WdHZZTpR; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jerry@seibercom.net designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::82f as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jerry@seibercom.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.95 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[seibercom.net:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.58)[-0.584]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[174.109.231.236:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_TO_ADDR(5.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.88)[-0.876]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[seibercom.net:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.990]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[seibercom.net]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::82f:from]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,meta]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 13:29:15 -0000 --Sig_/.c/XivGW/7e1EeY=EFa6afr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 08:50:22 -0400, Aryeh Friedman commented: >On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 8:28 AM Chris Knipe >wrote: > >> https://imgur.com/a/eW01Zc2 Your own message - a very good example >> of what's wrong with it. Straight from gmail. In outlook (for >> example, which has a narrower reading plane), it will be even worse, >> as even -more- scrolling would be required. >> =20 > >Reading the original message on gmail was no problem for me nor >unreadable in any way (you must have your gmail configured in some >f'ed up way!). I just read that message in both Gmail and Outlook, the program not the web site, and it presented itself quite well. >> We don't use 640x480 monitors anymore (hell, not even our SSH >> sessions run at these low resolutions and 80 col / 25 rows anymore) >> - we're way past that as well... Whilst I now have to scroll up and >> down to read your message, I could have seen your entire message in >> one screen without the need to scroll up and down. >> =20 > >Maybe if you have *perfect* eyesight you could see it on one screen! >(Not everyone is 18 and has vision better than most fighter pilots). > And you might be wrong about the row/col count of some/most SSH (X > based terminal >apps) for example on a 1920x1080 monitor (27") my 50 year old eyes need >37x135 (not that much larger than 25x80) when using a xfce terminal, >the default font size is unreadable even with 1.75 diopter reading >glasses (which are not needed if I use the above resolution). >Before you go crazy about how everything can be done via a GUI I have >one question: are you a programmer or a sysadmin? (if not then you >have no idea of how useful a command line is vs. the GUI). I am not a doctor; however, I am quite aware of how detrimental to your health a projectile fired into your skull can be. Your equivalenced of profession to knowledge is a fallacy. Many people study other job skills although they have no intention of even entering the field actively. >> What's the most efficient? I guess that's a matter of opinion too. >> =20 > >If it is unreadable then it is clearly no efficient. > >> I hear what you are saying, and I am by no means suggesting sending >> a 200kb email, with 10mb of HTML embedded in it either, but we are >> WAY past, 80 col, 25 rows... It would be interesting to see how >> 80x25 actually looks on today's say, 34" monitors (or whatever the >> entry level monitors are these days) >> =20 > >Entry level from my local computer superstore (microcenter) is 25" and >I am sure I would have an even lower resolution there. So no we are >*NOT* way past 25x80, you are just being dense and an elitist to say >otherwise. 1) Not everybody buys the bargain basement item. 2) Time is a moving target. Your definition of "way past" is solely based on your own opinions and observations. Personally, for me anyway, once a train has left the station, it is gone. Obviously, everyone has their own opinion on relevancy and suitability to task. 3) In virtually all cases, I never buy the entry level product of any line. It is almost always the first one to go obsolete and/or not be supported by its creators. --=20 Jerry --Sig_/.c/XivGW/7e1EeY=EFa6afr Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEIQb/tTwl6I1ueEVtOHMGOIfexWQFAl7oyR0ACgkQOHMGOIfe xWSj1Qf+J9WU8zz0F7ljtrBfHGVhx+uX7GSG/XWof16tcKbjqLiKFbupDKhGiqMe do60TzOyrp/6O661bJ5MMtyqbduD31CuqtzneFgW0B9m2kxPEYRHAqx5QcoHPNIN ZZB3wvOA8dtrcXHurdQ92mhnW2Sp/W1PYqUjtOZmBXpUqKETDd+kkxfU6JbRw+Ht syazf4R6XC4c/jV6D2HPzcluktShjbxLFXyLi7earWyJ0StkRF915hFaSvprsibW gRHZdTrzLDvBY7oTEJcrYPswqIK1ESN5BFrnvoOd2hQ4yaXvSKAXowxrQzUBRMnF 9/AaLBnmFd4MxlYPJ5oHjsFydP4jhQ== =Lwpz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/.c/XivGW/7e1EeY=EFa6afr--