From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun Dec 3 06:16:26 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40227DF008B for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 06:16:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FA026D345 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 06:16:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 1F089DF0087; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 06:16:26 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EAA5DF0085 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 06:16:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2A526D344 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 06:16:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([96.50.22.10]) by shaw.ca with SMTP id LNZYeHrdXGvLHLNZZecFnM; Sat, 02 Dec 2017 23:16:19 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=a9pAzQaF c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:117 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ocR9PWop10UA:10 a=BWvPGDcYAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=3Vvk3fhRNu6Lc4U07kcA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=pxhY87DP9d2VeQe4joPk:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E919F4C; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 22:16:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vB36GFcv026149; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 22:16:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id vB36GFEg026146; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 22:16:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201712030616.vB36GFEg026146@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Warner Losh cc: Cy Schubert , Eitan Adler , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Deprecating / Removing floppy drive support In-Reply-To: Message from Warner Losh of "Sat, 02 Dec 2017 21:47:55 -0700." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2017 22:16:15 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfO63YzbRb9lityKgK6usQPw0cFVTwGkVnypGtYsx2Cp0wV2hZYi6XYX9w6JtJSzwfiF2+FCN3I7S7lcVLgtT+b1owvpuz3+PNHQvY+ZJFttmE8no0wte xE6XKjVueYzPytYfpc4B6Md5sEPujOMc04pm4SvM+/ny2wkVu0NpHlXbFZUhCJ3T2ypbmOpaxHHJPdn9ZoGseV2mR9v/8Ztoj6pjYRG0yj46UV95krX0WSkm X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2017 06:16:26 -0000 In message , Warner Losh writes: > --001a1144e7002bf7b0055f684ec8 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 8:31 PM, Cy Schubert > wrote: > > > bms@ has given me USB floppy formatting code which I'd planned to merge > > > into fdformat but considering the underlying devices are so very different > > it would be a difficult marriage. I'd be willing to support a ufdformat > > instead. > > > I'm keen on getting that into the tree. I have a ufd device and a need to > use it from time to time. If nothing else, I can be a reviewer of the code. > Is ufd working for you? It does work. My todo was to merge ufdformat into fdformat but as I said they are different enough that I need to work out how best to merge them. Having said that, now that there's discussion of removing fdc(4) maybe it's best to simply use ufdformat separately from fdformat that when we have the inclination to remove fdc(4), which may be very soon now -- it would be much less messy. I'm open to either option. > > > > > > > > Normally, I'd argue we might want to have a release where it's > > deprecated, > > > but it already was unusable in 11, and barely usable in 10 and has been a > > > shadow of its former self for much longer than that. > > > > The reason to keep some form of floppy support, eder fd or ufd is for the > > purpose of copying (dd) floppy media into image files for use with > > virtualbox or bhyve VMs. -- (One could say the same for CD and DVD drives. > > My new laptop at $JOB has no CD/DVD drive.) I digress. I think the ability > > to copy media to image files for VMs might be a reason to keep some form of > > support fd or ufd. > > > I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here... What I'm saying is that maintaining some form of fdc support whether it be in fdc(4) or a USB floppy the ability to dd floppy images for subsequent use in a VM would be desirable. I'm thinking of one example brought to my attention about a month ago where a person I know needed to copy old floppy disks to images on his hard drive in order to install an old sewing machine application in a virtualbox VM running Windows. Tangentially speaking, we could make the same case for CD and DVD drives not too many years from now... Personally, I don't care much (well maybe just a little) if fdc(4) itself is removed however I think we need some kind of support, which USB fd can supply if or when fdc(4) is removed. Maybe we should deprecate in 12 and remove in 13? -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few.