From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 9 15:53:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4684E955 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2012 15:53:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qa0-f47.google.com (mail-qa0-f47.google.com [209.85.216.47]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEC028FC14 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2012 15:53:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qa0-f47.google.com with SMTP id i29so3786572qaf.13 for ; Tue, 09 Oct 2012 08:53:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=OOr4KrKRNBYc0Sdb4yBjLxY+Nnf4btUGyur+Kli0M2A=; b=Vg/XxOmN+LHcDinTAiGxYw1MkRRRTKwpRAHCM4PXd8VyWfgy43JnOXdSnWczgn+mHY xCaL9xjUH8GX0mC00up7R3iG/1AuOi8IsPFHTAWGkztTjj+fg3aoTRf/id1S6S9r0KA9 /5CZJ/RBSl1tHZ+QMSKWwK4zbdS3FLiMBqUwiEKZ4E9ygbOw5wWG7R5OzuskYDTHEN8B u+9OFo8NgWLKk7ec3gm3L7FvEZONuYLoSAKf7dsemCcQKrqjLo1jYGanttjHsYU5PiuB yW+6MPcYOKM04HoKjqmXFQKZMZ1uYxVHcAjVUp3VcVZe5L/gWtrmIsRbqIj11LWDnUXi WRhg== Received: by 10.224.203.193 with SMTP id fj1mr35646782qab.13.1349797998969; Tue, 09 Oct 2012 08:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.30.101.53] ([209.117.142.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q7sm20813702qeo.6.2012.10.09.08.53.15 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 09 Oct 2012 08:53:16 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Subject: Re: New Boot Loader Menu Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <515694A9-3D0F-4150-8865-F518072C5EC6@fisglobal.com> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 09:53:09 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <0655B56F-AD43-402B-872C-568378E650F9@fisglobal.com> <5071D6B5.1010609@FreeBSD.org> <50726C73.10506@FreeBSD.org> <50732CB1.9080900@gmx.de> <71571815-CBF3-4B16-BA77-2828B8BA613C@fisglobal.com> <515694A9-3D0F-4150-8865-F518072C5EC6@fisglobal.com> To: Devin Teske X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnkxIk0MmgRNBa36Yq5hngfO4QDupSPg6wiM8VhMNgqr3xs4Xd5ZiBG66FP6mmrELHjsn0N Cc: Garrett Cooper , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 15:53:20 -0000 On Oct 9, 2012, at 9:25 AM, Devin Teske wrote: > =85Re-adding the list=85 (good point) >=20 > On Oct 9, 2012, at 8:15 AM, Garrett Cooper wrote: >=20 >> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Devin Teske = wrote: >>> =85Re-adding the list=85 >>>=20 >>> On Oct 8, 2012, at 12:42 PM, olli hauer wrote: >>>=20 >>>> ... >>>>=20 >>>>> You'll also get zero argument out of me that putting "Delete" = on-screen is not only to-be-avoided for the opposing situation (that = some keyboards may not have a "Delete" but instead "Backspace") but = indeed "Delete" is worse because the implied connotation associated with = the "Delete" key (_someone_ might be confused into thinking "Delete" = will purge the menu from memory). >>>>>=20 >>>>> I will play with keycodes. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Just be aware that currently left arrow CANNOT work. That is a bad = suggestion (read why below). >>>>>=20 >>>>> In Forth, I'm using the "key" primitive which -- rather = unfortunately -- produces a zero for "left-arrow", "right-arrow", = "up-arrow", "down-arrow", "F1", "F2", "F3", "F4", "F5", "F6", "F7", = "F8", "F9", and "F10" (note: it doesn't catch "F11", "F12", "F13", = "F14", "F15", or "F16"). >>>>>=20 >>>>> So all those key options are right-out when it comes to "using = them instead of Backspace" (I simply can't identify in the loader when = those keys are pressed). >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> ... >>>>=20 >>>> will the space key work for a general back to or up one entry? >>>> I suspect the space bar has the same keycode on all platforms = (intel/appel/ppc/sparc ...) >>>>=20 >>>> Anyway nice work :) >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> By golly, I think olli is on to something here! >>>=20 >>> What does everybody think about space? >>>=20 >>> I like it because it's a NICE BIG TARGET (and it's not used by = anything else). >>=20 >> It was used once upon a time to pause the bootloader countdown=85 >=20 > Well=85 that hasn't *really* been true since r222417 (16+ months ago). >=20 > Ever since r222417, *any/all* keys will kill the countdown-to-boot. >=20 > Since you mention it, I think it's worth mentioning that SPACE is = still looking like a good choice=85 >=20 > At the main-menu, space is not hooked into anything so it retains its = legacy of "press SPACE to stop the countdown" meanwhile, submenus are = free to use SPACE because by the time they've reached *any* submenu, the = countdown has already been killed. This will be too confusing for users. Space usually means 'select the = current menu item' along with Return. It doesn't mean in any system = I've ever used 'go back' (with the exception of space selecting a drawn = button that says back). Warner