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Date:      Wed, 12 May 1999 22:59:11 -0400 (EDT)
From:      Chuck Robey <>
To:        David Schwartz <>
Cc:        chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   RE: cvs commit: src/sys/pci pcisupport.c 
Message-ID:  <>
In-Reply-To: <000001be9ce8$291f3790$>

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On Wed, 12 May 1999, David Schwartz wrote:

> > Because if it's a day of coding, you should just do it.  If it's a 3
> > month project, you don't waste such time, and you should communicate it.
> > The time factor is judged by folks who code for a living, and maybe it's
> > a little high, but not too bad.  I haven't seen this rule misapplied,
> > but it's possible some may think so; they are most likely mis-estimating
> > the scope of the work involved.
> 	Believe it or not, good ideas can even come from people who
> can't code at all, and the ideas are just as good. Slapping these
> people down just ensures they don't contribute in the future.

The point is, there are lists for things like that, and this isn't one
of them.  You want to talk about your ideas (which you can't code),
stick it on chat, and talk all day.  If anyone jumps on you for saying
anything on -chat, you tell them Chuck gave you explicit permission to
say all you wanted, as long as you kept it on chat.

The point is, while it's possible for someone who can't code to come up
with some great idea, it's seldom happened.  What *does* happen is that
huge amounts of everyone's time gets wasted while someone who was too
lazy to read the book themselves gets an education at everyone else's
expense.  You don't mind wasting other folks time?  I do.

Are you aware that all the main FreeBSD core guys used to hang out on
hackers, and even answer questions on -questions?  People pusing ideas
like yours, who think they should be catered to at everyone else's
expense, drove all of them away.  It wastes the time of the folks who
CAN do it.  I, for one, don't appreciate that.  I was real unhappy, the
day that David Greenman left -questions and hackers, but I didn't blame
him a bit.

If you enjoy batting ideas around, hey, that's fun, I do it too, but I
make sure that I don't pretend about what I'm doing, and I make sure I
do it in a venue where I only engage those folks who are similarly at
leisure to do so.

> 	Now if their ideas genuinely are bad, you are more than welcome to slap
> them down as much as you wish. If that means they don't contribute more bad
> ideas in the future, so much the better. Heck, it even may save you the idea
> of having to explain why the bad idea is, in fact, bad.
> 	But "if it's such a good idea, why don't you code it?" doesn't fall into
> any of these categories. It's one of those "that's what you think" type
> arguments that serves as an excuse to ignore the merits of the other side's
> case.
> 	DS

Chuck Robey                 | Interests include any kind of voice or data       | communications topic, C programming, and Unix.
213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1  |
Greenbelt, MD 20770         | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current)
(301) 220-2114              | and jaunt (Solaris7).

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