From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 16 23:35:55 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0026116A4CE for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2005 23:35:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from luzifer.incubus.de (incubus.de [80.237.207.83]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8498D43D1D for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2005 23:35:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mkb@incubus.de) Received: from [192.168.2.10] (pD9E685F0.dip.t-dialin.net [217.230.133.240]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by luzifer.incubus.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D448A2FFF0; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 00:35:50 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <41EAFA51.8090207@incubus.de> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 00:35:45 +0100 From: Matthias Buelow User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (X11/20041124) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chuck Swiger References: <20050115210617.A20158@starfire.mn.org> <20050116041626.GB13042@osiris.chen.org.nz> <41E9F612.5030901@taborandtashell.net> <20050115233404.B20530@starfire.mn.org> <20050116060442.GA847@osiris.chen.org.nz> <41EA0B3F.3030209@incubus.de> <41EAA854.1040500@mac.com> In-Reply-To: <41EAA854.1040500@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I need a cuppa... X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 23:35:55 -0000 Chuck Swiger wrote: >> Even Apple doesn't show up in their radar... what do you expect. > This is untrue. > The Mac Runtime for Java is a high-priority environment for both Apple When I go to java.sun.com, I can download the jdk for: Linux, Windows, Solaris. That's what I meant. >> Java is as proprietary as it gets. (Unfortunately many of us need it.) > Nonsense. While Java isn't OSI Open Source compliant, it's more open > than anything which *doesn't* come with the sources included. Proprietary is proprietary. Java is not standardized, Sun has an iron clutch on it (you can't name a reimplementation "Java[tm]"), and, in contrast to Sun's marketing spindoctors, it's a rather unportable environment (not the least due to Sun's licensing policy). So what's "open" there? The fact that you may download it without license fees for a selected few systems, and that they document their product? mkb.