From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 19:58:01 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39472106567B for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:58:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from prvs=0623c498d=pschmehl_lists@tx.rr.com) Received: from ip-001.utdallas.edu (ip-001.utdallas.edu [129.110.20.107]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 078028FC17 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:57:58 +0000 (UTC) X-Group: None X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvwKAPI4kk2BbgogVmdsb2JhbACER6AwYgEhAiSJHqoykTGBJ4NMdwSFPI5F X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.63,264,1299477600"; d="scan'208";a="57048491" Received: from zxtm01.utdallas.edu (HELO [129.110.200.11]) ([129.110.10.32]) by ip-001.utdallas.edu with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 29 Mar 2011 14:57:56 -0500 Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:57:55 -0500 From: Paul Schmehl To: Adam Vande More , Paul Schmehl Message-ID: <4351D0CD39E5FC00C9A55C6C@utd71538.local> In-Reply-To: References: <20110329013223.ddca7453.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <1301419646.71335.123.camel@xenon> <87B0CCF2B38381F29EE67BA4@utd71538.local> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Jason Hsu , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, Michal Varga Subject: Re: Best way to switch from Linux to BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Paul Schmehl List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:58:01 -0000 --On March 29, 2011 2:37:07 PM -0500 Adam Vande More=20 wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 2:11 PM, Paul Schmehl > wrote: > > Go to Youtube and see if you can watch a video. =C2=A0Ubuntu does it out = of > the box. =C2=A0FreeBSD only does it after you tweak and tweak and tweak = and > google and google and google. > > > Or just follow the instructions.=C2=A0 If people really find that = difficult > I'm not sure any OS is going to be the answer long term.=C2=A0 If you do > enough computer use you'll have to follow instructions at some point. > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/desktop-browser > s.html > Imagine that. And yet you can find numerous posts in questions from people = who struggle with it. Must be stupid people then, huh? > Java is a different matter.=C2=A0 Handbook should be updated to use the = iced > tea plugin since the other java plugin doesn't work on new FF plus it's > other deficiencies. > At least you're willing to admit there have been some deficiencies.... > Comparing Ubuntu and FreeBSD is a false choice and if you want a rough > equivalent of ubuntu, use PCBSD.=C2=A0 I don't agree with what you say is = so > hard, but there are options to take most of that overhead away. Can we at least agree that the OP found it hard? Could we further agree=20 that he's not the first one to encounter problems? Sure FreeBSD isn't hard for those of us who have used it for years, but=20 seriously, to expect a newbie to just roll the OS out, get a desktop up and = running, install a functional flash and java without encountering any=20 difficult issues is a bit unrealistic, don't you think? As I stated in another reply, I just got tired of the hassle of constantly=20 having to fix things that were working fine before I ran portupgrade. And=20 I gave up on flash. It simply did not work. I just installed VirtualBox=20 and ran Windows 7 in it. I finally asked myself why I was wasting my valuable time trying to get and = maintain functionality that "just worked" on the Mac. The answer was, stop = wasting your time. Again, this is *not* a knock on FreeBSD, but there is a world of difference = between installing an OS that runs a window display system (like Xorg) and=20 a DM (like KDE) and flash and java and all the things that I am forced to=20 use for my work out of the box and installing all those ports and=20 maintaining them and fixing the problems that inevitably occur. That's why my desktop OS is now a Mac. Because when I have to attend a=20 meeting using Adobe Connect (which I will doing next week), I can't do that = in a FreeBSD desktop without a *lot* of work and tweaking, if at all. When = I need to do a remote session with a vendor to fix yet-another-problem on a = stupid Windows server, I need Java to work flawlessly with Go To My PC. It = may or may not do that on FreeBSD. No, it's not FreeBSD's "fault", but who = really gives a damn when it needs to work? And, after all, isn't that the OP's complaint? --=20 Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst As if it wasn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. ******************************************* "It is as useless to argue with those who have renounced the use of reason as to administer medication to the dead." Thomas Jefferson "There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them." George Orwell